That's right Cargo.King, just a couple of examples out of countless others.
What did it take last week when there was infact a widespread issue amongst the pilots? A total of about 48 hours between the time the issue was brought to the attention of the CEO and management and the conference call announcing the measures that would rectify the situation. Forty eight hours. Within that time frame, 3 contracts were negotiated and signed with outside companies to shed some of the work load and ease up the schedule as we gear up for our major expansion into wide bodies and new aircraft types, including further expansion on the regional front with PE Air.
In addition to contracting out some of the work to alleviate internal pressures, other incentives, both retro-active and future were implemented to help remedy the situation. All this within 48 hours of the issue first being voiced to Ajay. Can your union do that? Do we need a union "for our own good"? I didn't think so.
cargojet
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: cargojet
Well here we go. Just noticed an email from AJ asking for input and follow up confrence call on wed . Quick decesisive actions and now follow ups..Sure BUZZzz and his budies will do that for us ya rite.....NOT IN THIS LIFE TIME. And all you guys have any issues make sure you speak up next week....No sense complaining if you cant speak up or send your concerns to AJ in advance as he has asked for.
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helmetfired
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:43 pm
Re: cargojet
Airwings
I see all that time in that noisy cockpit has gotten to your hearing. Mine is fine, no need FOR SHOUTING.
Thanks for enlightening "some of you new kids" I hope your CRM is just as polished.
What happens when all the 727's are gone in the next 3-5yrs as promised? Even with the higher utilization rates (cause you can't park the fleet for the weekend), what will happen from 3 to 2 person crew?
Will growth be that significant? Canada is only so small and now you're trying to compete with economies of scale.
Will career progression stagnate like Morningstar, and will Cargojet continue to be a training academy?
Do the rest of your crew share your view "if you don't want to go overseas then get a job as a cargo handler or airport security"? Some might be lifestyle pilots, and have no desire for that kind of work.
The FO that was told about the inconsequence of a wrongful dismissal suit is no myth. But I'm sure you also told "said" FO, and the other 2 pilots that didn't get the trust units, that they "didn't pull their weight"
Did you thank the other one when you got your retro stat pay?
Remember when seniority #1 and #2 left for AC?...their "gift" of trust units was rescinded. Classy.
I too have some celebrity photos with myself (Ricki Lake when she was still fat - I should call her)
I thought that kind of thing more appropriate for the deli i hope to open one day. A true altruist doesn't use it for marketing his company. Good on him to match the pilots contribution during that tragedy. Not so classy to get upset when it's given to the local fire dept.
Taking back that #5 pilot was a no brainer from the company perspective, not charity. It told the rest of the troops the grass is not greener, resistance is futile. Even after 2 bankrupt airlines I'm sure his resume is still fresh.
If you want investment tips, and really want to invest in the transport sector; stay away from airlines. Ocean freight and railways have been good buys (good enough for Warren Buffet). Rising fuel prices are hurting the air cargo market, it's easier to fill a ship both ways.
That being said, you are dead wrong when you label other airlines like AC "stupid" for flying to China. Those rights are gold. Fedex, UPS would give you several 767's (not 300 ER though, they still have value) for those rights. The problem is they go to Canada.
If ACPA and AC get their agreement in place to fly dedicated freighters, good luck competing.
AC is already replacing their long haul a/c with 777's. These actually carry revenue freight on their routes now.
How much fuel did CJ hedge for 2008?
The Canadian dollar is the strongest reason for strength right now, watch out for a US recession.
KFC 38yrs and counting, ACE 10yrs?, CJ 5yrs?
Starjet was started on unchecked ego right from the beginning, even flight ops new it wouldn't work.
Also, what year did Hollywood Bollywood get nom'd for an Oscar?
And when did Westjet start flying "overseas" What duration of ETOPS are they running on the on the Nat tracks
I may be "ill informed" and "ignorant", but not naive.
Thank you for the edumacation.
Nobody will look after your interests but you.
I see all that time in that noisy cockpit has gotten to your hearing. Mine is fine, no need FOR SHOUTING.
Thanks for enlightening "some of you new kids" I hope your CRM is just as polished.
What happens when all the 727's are gone in the next 3-5yrs as promised? Even with the higher utilization rates (cause you can't park the fleet for the weekend), what will happen from 3 to 2 person crew?
Will growth be that significant? Canada is only so small and now you're trying to compete with economies of scale.
Will career progression stagnate like Morningstar, and will Cargojet continue to be a training academy?
Do the rest of your crew share your view "if you don't want to go overseas then get a job as a cargo handler or airport security"? Some might be lifestyle pilots, and have no desire for that kind of work.
The FO that was told about the inconsequence of a wrongful dismissal suit is no myth. But I'm sure you also told "said" FO, and the other 2 pilots that didn't get the trust units, that they "didn't pull their weight"
Did you thank the other one when you got your retro stat pay?
Remember when seniority #1 and #2 left for AC?...their "gift" of trust units was rescinded. Classy.
I too have some celebrity photos with myself (Ricki Lake when she was still fat - I should call her)
I thought that kind of thing more appropriate for the deli i hope to open one day. A true altruist doesn't use it for marketing his company. Good on him to match the pilots contribution during that tragedy. Not so classy to get upset when it's given to the local fire dept.
Taking back that #5 pilot was a no brainer from the company perspective, not charity. It told the rest of the troops the grass is not greener, resistance is futile. Even after 2 bankrupt airlines I'm sure his resume is still fresh.
If you want investment tips, and really want to invest in the transport sector; stay away from airlines. Ocean freight and railways have been good buys (good enough for Warren Buffet). Rising fuel prices are hurting the air cargo market, it's easier to fill a ship both ways.
That being said, you are dead wrong when you label other airlines like AC "stupid" for flying to China. Those rights are gold. Fedex, UPS would give you several 767's (not 300 ER though, they still have value) for those rights. The problem is they go to Canada.
If ACPA and AC get their agreement in place to fly dedicated freighters, good luck competing.
AC is already replacing their long haul a/c with 777's. These actually carry revenue freight on their routes now.
How much fuel did CJ hedge for 2008?
The Canadian dollar is the strongest reason for strength right now, watch out for a US recession.
KFC 38yrs and counting, ACE 10yrs?, CJ 5yrs?
Starjet was started on unchecked ego right from the beginning, even flight ops new it wouldn't work.
Also, what year did Hollywood Bollywood get nom'd for an Oscar?
And when did Westjet start flying "overseas" What duration of ETOPS are they running on the on the Nat tracks
I may be "ill informed" and "ignorant", but not naive.
Thank you for the edumacation.
Nobody will look after your interests but you.
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Bank Angle
- Rank 2
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 12:45 am
Re: cargojet
All I can say is that it was nice to read some positive comments for a change, not much unlike the other Cargojet post from a couple of months ago. I don't agree with everything positive said, nor disagree with everything negative, but helmetfired, if you are so unhappy, go find another job! For the rest of us, let's try to keep working together to make this place better and the long nights accross the country a little more positive. I would much rather deal with management myself directly, in a positive way, then pay someone else to "fight" (never effective) with them on our behalf.
As far as NghtFrt's comments go: Stay at Morningstar. Obviously you're happy there. I'm sure it is a good gig, but why bad-mouth your neighbours? If you want to talk about pilots prostetuting themselves out, talk to the Jazz and AC pilots flying transport category aircraft for less then $40K a year! Much good their union did them...
As far as NghtFrt's comments go: Stay at Morningstar. Obviously you're happy there. I'm sure it is a good gig, but why bad-mouth your neighbours? If you want to talk about pilots prostetuting themselves out, talk to the Jazz and AC pilots flying transport category aircraft for less then $40K a year! Much good their union did them...
Re: cargojet
Helmitfired,
I'm curious as to why you think employees deserve personal shares of the CEO?
Seniority 1 and 2 and the CEO's shares;
It was clearly outlined when each pilot received the shares that they had to continue to work for Cargojet for 2 years. In the case of so called Seniority 1 and 2, both pilots decided to move on and break the share agreement, their loss. All pilots who continued to work at Cargojet for 2 years after agreeing to the agreement were able to keep the shares.
Financial donation to ex-employee;
Get your facts straight, the CEO matched the pilot's contribution for an ex-employee. Ajay also re-hired the so called ex-employee, most would agree it was a class act on the part of the CEO. On another note, don't believe everything you hear, he wasn't upset about the donation to the fire department.
Taking back # 5,
Sure, it works out for both the pilot and the company. The company gets a class act training Captain back, and the pilot gets a YVR base out of it. Works well for both sides. What's your point?
It's obvious you are an ex-employee that is bitter for whatever reason, lost shares perhaps? In the future get your facts straight before you decide to bash a company that you know very little about. Many folks at Cargojet plan on making a career out of it. You didn't, so move on and enjoy your 1000 page ACPA agreement.
I'm curious as to why you think employees deserve personal shares of the CEO?
Seniority 1 and 2 and the CEO's shares;
It was clearly outlined when each pilot received the shares that they had to continue to work for Cargojet for 2 years. In the case of so called Seniority 1 and 2, both pilots decided to move on and break the share agreement, their loss. All pilots who continued to work at Cargojet for 2 years after agreeing to the agreement were able to keep the shares.
Financial donation to ex-employee;
Get your facts straight, the CEO matched the pilot's contribution for an ex-employee. Ajay also re-hired the so called ex-employee, most would agree it was a class act on the part of the CEO. On another note, don't believe everything you hear, he wasn't upset about the donation to the fire department.
Taking back # 5,
Sure, it works out for both the pilot and the company. The company gets a class act training Captain back, and the pilot gets a YVR base out of it. Works well for both sides. What's your point?
It's obvious you are an ex-employee that is bitter for whatever reason, lost shares perhaps? In the future get your facts straight before you decide to bash a company that you know very little about. Many folks at Cargojet plan on making a career out of it. You didn't, so move on and enjoy your 1000 page ACPA agreement.
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KFlightcraft
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:23 am
Re: cargojet
cargojet didn't get the puro contract cause 1) weren't the cheapest bid 2)did not have the capcity/network in place 3) did not have the mtc organization like KFC has, 4) most importantly CJ had the worst on time performace of all the bidders, nor had the record performance and almost 40 yrs of operation as KFC.
To those who enjoy working at CJ good for you, we should be happy where we work at, who cares what others think. As for a union thats to be decided by vote by the CJ pilot group. The expansion is good for CJ only time will tell if it pays off.
To those who enjoy working at CJ good for you, we should be happy where we work at, who cares what others think. As for a union thats to be decided by vote by the CJ pilot group. The expansion is good for CJ only time will tell if it pays off.
Re: cargojet
Kflightcraft,
You are correct when you say Cargojet was not the lowest bid. Worst on time performance? come on, worse than Skyservice? 98% controllable isn't too bad, fact is we should be proud of our on time performance.
I would have to agree with you on the rest, what others think really doesn't matter. However, given Ajay and Sugar's willingness to make things work, I highly doubt a union will help improve conditions at Cargojet.
You are correct when you say Cargojet was not the lowest bid. Worst on time performance? come on, worse than Skyservice? 98% controllable isn't too bad, fact is we should be proud of our on time performance.
I would have to agree with you on the rest, what others think really doesn't matter. However, given Ajay and Sugar's willingness to make things work, I highly doubt a union will help improve conditions at Cargojet.
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cargo.king140
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Re: cargojet
AGREED oldfart 98%+ On time performance is absolutely great for UPS,DHL and 200 other customers. If the performance was that bad Cargojet wouldnt have grown from 3 planes to 14. kfc/PURO havent grown from 12 aircraft in last 5 years..wonder why if their on time performance is so great.....
As far as conditions are concerned, everyyear we have continually improved. When was the last time Barry Lapointe came and cared about your concerns or for that matter BUZZZZZZ. ya Bary is on his boat down under or counting his money.
For your info Ajay our CEO is concerned, cares and listening. As nitefr8 said when he finds out about a problem he acted in 48 hours. He has a follow up call scheduled next week and is seeking input.
Dont worry buddy we are in good hands and will make it work. You can continue tp pay Buzzzzzzz....
As far as conditions are concerned, everyyear we have continually improved. When was the last time Barry Lapointe came and cared about your concerns or for that matter BUZZZZZZ. ya Bary is on his boat down under or counting his money.
For your info Ajay our CEO is concerned, cares and listening. As nitefr8 said when he finds out about a problem he acted in 48 hours. He has a follow up call scheduled next week and is seeking input.
Dont worry buddy we are in good hands and will make it work. You can continue tp pay Buzzzzzzz....
Re: cargojet
Damn it Oldfart!! You're obviously quicker on the keyboard than I am, you posted my exact thoughts before I had a chance! Especially the bit about #s 1 & 2 having to give back their shares as per the written agreement issued at the time of the IPO.
The bottom line is, as Bank Angle implied, Cargojet is not perfect. The difference however is that management and the CEO not only acknowledge problems and issues when they arise, they take action where and when possible. In addition, they continuously appeal to the pilot group to voice any concerns we may have. What more can you ask for? It's up to us to reciprocate this gesture of good faith by taking them up on their offer.
Neither management nor the CEO have at any point demonstrated reluctance to keep the lines of communication open. If anything it's been us, the pilot group who typically have no comment at the end of our regular conference calls or annual pilot conference. Let's do ourselves a favor and use the avenues made abundantly available to us to further improve the already great thing we have here.
What I can't understand for the life of me is the seemingly widespread tendancy for those on this forum who don't work here, to denigrate a company they know little to nothing about. Worry about your own environment and more importantly perhaps, worry about the bigger issue which in some way inspires you to propogate negativity instinctively. There is help out there.
The bottom line is, as Bank Angle implied, Cargojet is not perfect. The difference however is that management and the CEO not only acknowledge problems and issues when they arise, they take action where and when possible. In addition, they continuously appeal to the pilot group to voice any concerns we may have. What more can you ask for? It's up to us to reciprocate this gesture of good faith by taking them up on their offer.
Neither management nor the CEO have at any point demonstrated reluctance to keep the lines of communication open. If anything it's been us, the pilot group who typically have no comment at the end of our regular conference calls or annual pilot conference. Let's do ourselves a favor and use the avenues made abundantly available to us to further improve the already great thing we have here.
What I can't understand for the life of me is the seemingly widespread tendancy for those on this forum who don't work here, to denigrate a company they know little to nothing about. Worry about your own environment and more importantly perhaps, worry about the bigger issue which in some way inspires you to propogate negativity instinctively. There is help out there.
Last edited by nite fr8 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cargo.king140
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Re: cargojet
I agree with nitefr8 and oldfart, for those of you who don't work at CJ dont worry about it, we know what we want and we know and believe in communicating with our VP and CEO, it only takes us hours to have an issue resolved, we dont need to pay anyone for what we can do ourselves. CJ's track record speaks for itself, 5 years of pure success and all of the industry awards to show for it....as our CEO says we are a family/team..dont try and split us...it just aint going to happen......we will only fly higher....
Re: cargojet
Helmitfired...Old fart is correct and so in nitefr8. You are obviously an ex employee is unhappy. I dont think yoo will be ever happy in life. Yes i agree you are ill informed. I wouldnt call you naive or ignorant..because you just choose to be ignorant. Let me comment on some of your items...and hopefully next time you will do your homework.'
China rights are not golden but dime a dozen. Go to CTA website and see the new China Canada air agreement of 2005/2006..anyone can fly there. If they were that profitable AC would not pull their MD11 from there and use it on FRA now. FYI they dont fly tyour golden route ..MD11 is gone. Word is that they lost 50million in 2 years.
As far cargojet growth is concerned, pls dont worry about it..we have a great team and the record speaks for itself.
Oh so sorry that pilots who quit had to give their shares back...wow how integrable they honored their agreement when they got the shares !!
As far as i know Ajay personally spoke to fire dept and even offered more help, so how can he be pissed off? If he can give away 50k to Toronto Star santa claus fund, does it make sense he will be have a problem with a charity like fire department who save lifes.... Please stop being so
bitter.
Starjet was a good experiment. Didnt fit in and gone. High marks to Ajay for making the decesion. If it was ego, it will still be flying.
I really feel sorry for the pilots who didnt get shares, we know all about it and why. Dont want to do others laundry on the forum...I am glad they didnt as many of us would have been mad if they got same shares as many of us.
For sure Cargojet doesnt need a new CFO like you to advise them on the fuel and foreign exchange hedge...They have done very well. AND WESTJET does fly to hawai...and crews do overnite there....
As far as the pilot #5 ..great win win...we love him. I am sure he had many choices and he chose to come back here. So the company couldnt be that bad...rite !!!!!!!!!!
And one more time...please do your homework...the Oscar nomination was for movie Water not hollywood Bollywood...
So oldfart and nite fr8 is rite. Please keep your negativity and your ACPA agreement with you and your team. And if you still work here, please get on with the program as we wouldnt let you fuk up a great organisation.
China rights are not golden but dime a dozen. Go to CTA website and see the new China Canada air agreement of 2005/2006..anyone can fly there. If they were that profitable AC would not pull their MD11 from there and use it on FRA now. FYI they dont fly tyour golden route ..MD11 is gone. Word is that they lost 50million in 2 years.
As far cargojet growth is concerned, pls dont worry about it..we have a great team and the record speaks for itself.
Oh so sorry that pilots who quit had to give their shares back...wow how integrable they honored their agreement when they got the shares !!
As far as i know Ajay personally spoke to fire dept and even offered more help, so how can he be pissed off? If he can give away 50k to Toronto Star santa claus fund, does it make sense he will be have a problem with a charity like fire department who save lifes.... Please stop being so
bitter.
Starjet was a good experiment. Didnt fit in and gone. High marks to Ajay for making the decesion. If it was ego, it will still be flying.
I really feel sorry for the pilots who didnt get shares, we know all about it and why. Dont want to do others laundry on the forum...I am glad they didnt as many of us would have been mad if they got same shares as many of us.
For sure Cargojet doesnt need a new CFO like you to advise them on the fuel and foreign exchange hedge...They have done very well. AND WESTJET does fly to hawai...and crews do overnite there....
As far as the pilot #5 ..great win win...we love him. I am sure he had many choices and he chose to come back here. So the company couldnt be that bad...rite !!!!!!!!!!
And one more time...please do your homework...the Oscar nomination was for movie Water not hollywood Bollywood...
So oldfart and nite fr8 is rite. Please keep your negativity and your ACPA agreement with you and your team. And if you still work here, please get on with the program as we wouldnt let you fuk up a great organisation.
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cargo.king140
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Re: cargojet
Ok Guys, somebody has to play devil's advocate for just a minute.
I have been here for a long time and I do not necessarily share the same rosy outlook you all do. I was once proud and very happy to work at CJ, but over the last little while things have simply gotten worse and worse. Perhaps it is simply my perspective on things and that I am just a useless grump who will never be happy. However, for those that say that CJ is superior to Morningstar, I think you have not taken a look at just how much better their working conditions are than ours. Yes, granted, we are getting bigger airplanes - that is great and I am genuinely happy for everyone that is so excited about it. But we need to be realistic - We work 18 days a month for MUCH less than Morningstar or KFC at 14 days per month. And when we hit overtime, it is at a fraction of what they are paid.
Sure, I knew what the deal was when I signed up. But back in the day we were also led to believe that we would be working that same 14 days a month. Lots of grey days in addition to our 10 SDO's. The other part of this was our actual network. Remember when our toughest night was 3 legs to YVR? That is now one of the easiest. Anyone check 579 for the next few months? YHM-YYC-YVR-YHM departing at 01:20. That is insanely difficult and just one of the many flights that have been stretched and stretched. This is a normal progression for airlines as they mature, but I am feeling like a sack of crap constantly these days because of how tough our nights are getting.
However, I don't want to focus on salary and duty times, Ajay himself has said that we don't have the same contracts as KFC does with Purolator and therefore we cannot be compared. Ouch!
My main issue is the fact that our schedule means virtually nothing. Now, I understand we are in a period of transition and expansion, but we always have been, and we almost always have been understaffed at the same time.
It absolutely destroys me that if you are reachable you can be drafted to work on your SDO's. I personally have had this happen numerous times and it is the number one issue that I have. I cannot plan anything with a degree of certainty any more. Because we are so stretched it seems that 50% of the time you check off for work or return to YHM there is a surprise waiting for you.
May I also point out that if a certain Captain did not have a chat with Ajay last week it would have been status quo for another X amount of months. Only because he confronted him with the reality of our schedules did anything happen. This is not meant to cast stones at Flt Ops, but I fundamentally believe that Ajay was shocked when he looked and saw multiple people last month working 25 or 26 days.
I am glad that Ajay did what he did, and I will not fault him personally. He is a stand up guy and much more engaged than any other CEO I know of. But that being said, just because we are expanding and have a great CEO does not make it any easier for me to personally swallow the massive impact this job is taking on my personal life.
So do I have faith it will be resolved? I hope so. It is kind of like being mad at your Mom for something and another person comments on it. You smack them because only you can say something about your Mom. I am the same way about CJ. I still stick up for the place even though it is giving me ulcers these days.
I want my life back to how it was before and I truly hope that management pulls through. But I cannot agree with all of your comments from my personal perspective. I am glad that you guys are so happy about how things are, but I can guarantee that there are lots of good, down-to-earth guys that are getting run down too.
Just another respectful opinion... Here's hoping...
I have been here for a long time and I do not necessarily share the same rosy outlook you all do. I was once proud and very happy to work at CJ, but over the last little while things have simply gotten worse and worse. Perhaps it is simply my perspective on things and that I am just a useless grump who will never be happy. However, for those that say that CJ is superior to Morningstar, I think you have not taken a look at just how much better their working conditions are than ours. Yes, granted, we are getting bigger airplanes - that is great and I am genuinely happy for everyone that is so excited about it. But we need to be realistic - We work 18 days a month for MUCH less than Morningstar or KFC at 14 days per month. And when we hit overtime, it is at a fraction of what they are paid.
Sure, I knew what the deal was when I signed up. But back in the day we were also led to believe that we would be working that same 14 days a month. Lots of grey days in addition to our 10 SDO's. The other part of this was our actual network. Remember when our toughest night was 3 legs to YVR? That is now one of the easiest. Anyone check 579 for the next few months? YHM-YYC-YVR-YHM departing at 01:20. That is insanely difficult and just one of the many flights that have been stretched and stretched. This is a normal progression for airlines as they mature, but I am feeling like a sack of crap constantly these days because of how tough our nights are getting.
However, I don't want to focus on salary and duty times, Ajay himself has said that we don't have the same contracts as KFC does with Purolator and therefore we cannot be compared. Ouch!
My main issue is the fact that our schedule means virtually nothing. Now, I understand we are in a period of transition and expansion, but we always have been, and we almost always have been understaffed at the same time.
It absolutely destroys me that if you are reachable you can be drafted to work on your SDO's. I personally have had this happen numerous times and it is the number one issue that I have. I cannot plan anything with a degree of certainty any more. Because we are so stretched it seems that 50% of the time you check off for work or return to YHM there is a surprise waiting for you.
May I also point out that if a certain Captain did not have a chat with Ajay last week it would have been status quo for another X amount of months. Only because he confronted him with the reality of our schedules did anything happen. This is not meant to cast stones at Flt Ops, but I fundamentally believe that Ajay was shocked when he looked and saw multiple people last month working 25 or 26 days.
I am glad that Ajay did what he did, and I will not fault him personally. He is a stand up guy and much more engaged than any other CEO I know of. But that being said, just because we are expanding and have a great CEO does not make it any easier for me to personally swallow the massive impact this job is taking on my personal life.
So do I have faith it will be resolved? I hope so. It is kind of like being mad at your Mom for something and another person comments on it. You smack them because only you can say something about your Mom. I am the same way about CJ. I still stick up for the place even though it is giving me ulcers these days.
I want my life back to how it was before and I truly hope that management pulls through. But I cannot agree with all of your comments from my personal perspective. I am glad that you guys are so happy about how things are, but I can guarantee that there are lots of good, down-to-earth guys that are getting run down too.
Just another respectful opinion... Here's hoping...
Re: cargojet
Cargojet is a great place to work-lots of work,stable financials,communicative management,good maintenance,fun guys to fly with,and the fleet renewal is cool too.I agree with 'survbut' though that it is very draining for me as a pilot, and for my family that I am working so many nights and very long pairings.I truly hope that this is being honestly addressed.I was told when hired they were targeting 16 days of work a month-which I had last summer and found very sustainable-I looked forward to going to work each night.So here's to hoping George,Dave,Ajay, and of course us, can work this out for our collective asses future.That's all the laundry I'm doing in public today.
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cargo.king140
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Re: cargojet
Guys, I think enough is enough! Its so nice to read that we consider ourselves team players and one of us has given a parallel saying "its like being mad at my mom". This clearily indicates we really do feel like a family at CJ and we're just not another company, CJ brings us all together and bottom line, we all care.
My comments on 579....I assume we have been asked to extend the flight because of the customers needs and demands. This has probably resulted in 10 hours of flying back and forth, now really isn't it better for us to do this extra portion here..or should we say no to the customer and turn away the business?????? Really it is unreasonable for us to ask the company to hire one extra crew to do a YYC-YVR sector. A lot of the guys prefer doing this flight rather than spending weekends away. No question extra long pairings and 22 days of work are a real challenge and these are the kind of problems we should be discussing and trying to get a resolution on rather than diluting our real issues with trival items.
Its a shame that we have had to air our family problems/dirty laundry in this public forum, which is visable to our customers, suppliers and competitors. We should be speaking to managment especially when we all agree Ajay is a hands on CEO who is accessiable and really does make things happen. Listen, whatever anyone has say, should be said on the conference call on Wednesday...bring up any issues at that time because that's the time where we can get answers and resolutions.
Really guys, we got a pretty good thing going at CJ, why dont we make a committment to each other and work on fixing our problems and so we can make it work for all us......
My comments on 579....I assume we have been asked to extend the flight because of the customers needs and demands. This has probably resulted in 10 hours of flying back and forth, now really isn't it better for us to do this extra portion here..or should we say no to the customer and turn away the business?????? Really it is unreasonable for us to ask the company to hire one extra crew to do a YYC-YVR sector. A lot of the guys prefer doing this flight rather than spending weekends away. No question extra long pairings and 22 days of work are a real challenge and these are the kind of problems we should be discussing and trying to get a resolution on rather than diluting our real issues with trival items.
Its a shame that we have had to air our family problems/dirty laundry in this public forum, which is visable to our customers, suppliers and competitors. We should be speaking to managment especially when we all agree Ajay is a hands on CEO who is accessiable and really does make things happen. Listen, whatever anyone has say, should be said on the conference call on Wednesday...bring up any issues at that time because that's the time where we can get answers and resolutions.
Really guys, we got a pretty good thing going at CJ, why dont we make a committment to each other and work on fixing our problems and so we can make it work for all us......
Re: cargojet
Thanks to all who believe in CJ! Let's keep these negative attitude guys in check since they are the ones who would put us down!!!
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CAPTAIN FOO
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:45 pm
Re: cargojet
Guys, guys , guys... It's truly great that the obvioulsy newer staff are so proud of CJT as they rightfully should be, it's a really great success story. However, this forum is where those in aviation who have had good and bad experiences can bring them to light, not a Kool-Aid fountain for an operation. If you wish to type pages of oozing glory hole stories about how great the life of a pilot at CJT is, you should also be prepared face some pretty sleep deprived guys and gals who are still waiting for the "balance" of lifestyle and flying that has been promised for 6 years. Growing pains are expected, purposely running so thin on crews that you sleep in your bed 7-8 days a month is not acceptable. Do not try to defend that.
Way, way back before the huge expansions came around, many of us were told in many meetings and phone conferences that CJT was to be the envy of pilots in Canada due to the methodical balance of honest flying and respectable time off. When pilots are on the phone arguing with Crew Sched over how long it takes to get the bus to the hotel, or the fact that you've been gone for 8-10 days again and you literally have nobody to sit with your kids, you start thinking, "Man I really hope that 16 day month is coming soon".. and when your wife is taking another day off without pay to sit home with your child because you just got turned back to YVR from YHM after your six-day pairing, getting a quick response from the CEO means shit. How about someone quickly attend my house and watch my kid instead sending me to a golf and country club on my day off.
It's really cool to see that CJT is defying the normally negative threads on this forum, but someone really should take the sucker away from the kids if they are starting to spike from the sugar.
Many people made career choices based on opinions of others, and we should all be careful not to unfairly paint a picture of absolute crap, or just as bad, an oasis where going to work is like getting blown for the first time. Cargojet is a sound option and a well-respected carrier of cargo. It's being run by some wise people who genuinely love making the gig work as smoothly as possible. Again, a great opportunity for anyone, but let's not fill a forum with a bloated image of how seamless and sweet the lifestyle is. Big airplanes, an incredible flight ops department, no doubt, but let's all be mature enough to call a spade a spade. In my four years of employment with CJT I have simply lost count of how many times an email was met with the 'growing pains" response, or advised to "leave if you don't like it.." The fact is that you are simply a body filling a seat, and the many, many promises of a balanced lifestyle are quietly being replaced with the big airplane carrot. I don't believe for a second that CJT has any ill will at all toward it's pilot group, but many, many people will agree that make no mistake, you will fly first and see the family when they feel fit to get you home. For the single person, it's like a dream, for those of us who believed that there would ever be a balance of family and job, one should seriously consider whether it's good move. There is huge difference of 16-17 days a month and 22 or 23. Yes, schedules look amazing when they come out, but ask the group again at the end of the month what they actually worked. Lots of smiles over a 16-17 month and lots of head shaking when you're drafted another 4-5 times by month's end. Some of us wouldn't want to leave as we genuinely enjoy the job, but are taking jobs elsewhere that have wordings in place to ensure it's ok to tell crew sched you simply can't do the extended flight back to YVR, or have babies to get home to. Don't try that route as we all know that ends.
Great place, but a far cry from the prior posts. Vent back, I truly don't care, but please don't mislead someone away from a remotely 50/50 job as they will not experience that there. Simply put, big airplane, big schedule, long night freight runs - fun a first, but 23 times a month is not normal.
Way, way back before the huge expansions came around, many of us were told in many meetings and phone conferences that CJT was to be the envy of pilots in Canada due to the methodical balance of honest flying and respectable time off. When pilots are on the phone arguing with Crew Sched over how long it takes to get the bus to the hotel, or the fact that you've been gone for 8-10 days again and you literally have nobody to sit with your kids, you start thinking, "Man I really hope that 16 day month is coming soon".. and when your wife is taking another day off without pay to sit home with your child because you just got turned back to YVR from YHM after your six-day pairing, getting a quick response from the CEO means shit. How about someone quickly attend my house and watch my kid instead sending me to a golf and country club on my day off.
It's really cool to see that CJT is defying the normally negative threads on this forum, but someone really should take the sucker away from the kids if they are starting to spike from the sugar.
Many people made career choices based on opinions of others, and we should all be careful not to unfairly paint a picture of absolute crap, or just as bad, an oasis where going to work is like getting blown for the first time. Cargojet is a sound option and a well-respected carrier of cargo. It's being run by some wise people who genuinely love making the gig work as smoothly as possible. Again, a great opportunity for anyone, but let's not fill a forum with a bloated image of how seamless and sweet the lifestyle is. Big airplanes, an incredible flight ops department, no doubt, but let's all be mature enough to call a spade a spade. In my four years of employment with CJT I have simply lost count of how many times an email was met with the 'growing pains" response, or advised to "leave if you don't like it.." The fact is that you are simply a body filling a seat, and the many, many promises of a balanced lifestyle are quietly being replaced with the big airplane carrot. I don't believe for a second that CJT has any ill will at all toward it's pilot group, but many, many people will agree that make no mistake, you will fly first and see the family when they feel fit to get you home. For the single person, it's like a dream, for those of us who believed that there would ever be a balance of family and job, one should seriously consider whether it's good move. There is huge difference of 16-17 days a month and 22 or 23. Yes, schedules look amazing when they come out, but ask the group again at the end of the month what they actually worked. Lots of smiles over a 16-17 month and lots of head shaking when you're drafted another 4-5 times by month's end. Some of us wouldn't want to leave as we genuinely enjoy the job, but are taking jobs elsewhere that have wordings in place to ensure it's ok to tell crew sched you simply can't do the extended flight back to YVR, or have babies to get home to. Don't try that route as we all know that ends.
Great place, but a far cry from the prior posts. Vent back, I truly don't care, but please don't mislead someone away from a remotely 50/50 job as they will not experience that there. Simply put, big airplane, big schedule, long night freight runs - fun a first, but 23 times a month is not normal.
Re: cargojet
100% nailed it on the head Captain Foo! These other guys on here are not the new guys though. One of them is near the top.
Re: cargojet
sure guys ...company bashing and laundry in public is great ! sure that will solve all your issues. Why are you guys so quite on the confrence calls. May be you guys deserve Buzz ...Read what he has to say in todays headlines when GM announces a loss of 38 billion. He says he is worried about jobs and the industry in crisis. Thanks for getting us there Buzz and making us so uncompetetive with the world. While you count your millions, you are sure concerned about Gm jobs.
I am not disagreeing with some of the issues regarding schedules, and i will wait to see what action the company will take and what the confrence call brings as a plan and action.
What i disagree with is that we bash our own company, our family in public forums and dont say a word when we are given an opportunity. What a shame.
I am not disagreeing with some of the issues regarding schedules, and i will wait to see what action the company will take and what the confrence call brings as a plan and action.
What i disagree with is that we bash our own company, our family in public forums and dont say a word when we are given an opportunity. What a shame.
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CAPTAIN FOO
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:45 pm
Re: cargojet
Actually comrade, I never mentioned th U word, as I'm not a big fan either, but the fact is that there has been a good number of people who have spoken up on the lifestyle issue on several occasions and were stuffed into the penalty box that apparently doesn't exist. Unions can do both great and horrid things to a company. I personally don't think CJT is the right place for a union, as the majority or gripes are over schedule, not a/c, not rides, not wages... it always been about lifestyle and will continue to be.
Again, not sure how long you've been around, but there have been a handful of attempts to secure a lighter monthly schedule. I have been in conferences when the brass have clearly stated on the record that anything less than a 20 day month is simply considered bonus days off, and you are essentially being paid to be at home because you agreed in writing to be flown up to 20 days a month upon hire. I was also at another conference where the brass compared crews to the office staff and CJT ground crews who work 5 days a week, as any CJT employee should. If someone thinks that this is a progressive stance to have as a leader of an airline, grab your hat and be nice to your wife. It's not realistic.
There are indeed good people to go to with a beef or complaint, and they absolutely listen. As noted earlier a majority of beefs get addressed, but so long as they don't require the grey days increasing. At another meeting I watched a senior pilot ask if there was any end in sight to the 18-20 days months that we work and that crews are simply too tired, and he was given the reply of "well, think of it this way; 18-20 days per month is better than 31 days off isn't it?" Not cool, in fact a bit degrading after flying the cargo through thunderstorms.
Again, some of us didn't start this thread, but some of us can't sit back and watch misleading posts either. Great place, great opportunity, but lacking balance. Still. It's obvious by now that the operation will be a strong employer for years to come but crews should be well aware that it will be a full month with big pairings with lots of schedule changes. Great for some, and a bad thing for others. This isn't laundry, just info that should be known for the people who read the prior raw-raw threads.
Again, not sure how long you've been around, but there have been a handful of attempts to secure a lighter monthly schedule. I have been in conferences when the brass have clearly stated on the record that anything less than a 20 day month is simply considered bonus days off, and you are essentially being paid to be at home because you agreed in writing to be flown up to 20 days a month upon hire. I was also at another conference where the brass compared crews to the office staff and CJT ground crews who work 5 days a week, as any CJT employee should. If someone thinks that this is a progressive stance to have as a leader of an airline, grab your hat and be nice to your wife. It's not realistic.
There are indeed good people to go to with a beef or complaint, and they absolutely listen. As noted earlier a majority of beefs get addressed, but so long as they don't require the grey days increasing. At another meeting I watched a senior pilot ask if there was any end in sight to the 18-20 days months that we work and that crews are simply too tired, and he was given the reply of "well, think of it this way; 18-20 days per month is better than 31 days off isn't it?" Not cool, in fact a bit degrading after flying the cargo through thunderstorms.
Again, some of us didn't start this thread, but some of us can't sit back and watch misleading posts either. Great place, great opportunity, but lacking balance. Still. It's obvious by now that the operation will be a strong employer for years to come but crews should be well aware that it will be a full month with big pairings with lots of schedule changes. Great for some, and a bad thing for others. This isn't laundry, just info that should be known for the people who read the prior raw-raw threads.
Re: cargojet
ok captain foo....All i have to say is that the leader has always asked us to speak and and he has listened and acted.
Obviously this is evident from his visit to the pilots lounge and he actually encouraged the captain to speak up . As nite fr8 has said he acted within 48 hours and ensured that the Feb schedule was reissued and in less than 48 hours went and negotiated outsourcing some work to other carriers. The february schedule may not be where we all want but for most of us was a step in right direction from scheduling standpoint.
If the company wasnt interested in improving, they would not listen and also not act. The very fact that AJ has scheduled a follow up confrence call and asked for feedback is a postive step. I have certainly sent him my concerns and a few other have too . I sincerely hope you have voiced your concerns as well.
Why dont we atleast agree that we see what action plan is in place and what AJ has to say tommorrow. We both agree that other than schedule and lifestyle issues the company is solid, successful and has their act together. I would certainly like to give it my best shot to see if things can improve scheduling wise here before sending my resumes out.
I certainly have done my rounds in other places and would certainly like to retire here. There are pros and cons at every place however no question the stability and culture here is much better as far as i can see.
So lets see what tommorrow brings. Thank you.
Obviously this is evident from his visit to the pilots lounge and he actually encouraged the captain to speak up . As nite fr8 has said he acted within 48 hours and ensured that the Feb schedule was reissued and in less than 48 hours went and negotiated outsourcing some work to other carriers. The february schedule may not be where we all want but for most of us was a step in right direction from scheduling standpoint.
If the company wasnt interested in improving, they would not listen and also not act. The very fact that AJ has scheduled a follow up confrence call and asked for feedback is a postive step. I have certainly sent him my concerns and a few other have too . I sincerely hope you have voiced your concerns as well.
Why dont we atleast agree that we see what action plan is in place and what AJ has to say tommorrow. We both agree that other than schedule and lifestyle issues the company is solid, successful and has their act together. I would certainly like to give it my best shot to see if things can improve scheduling wise here before sending my resumes out.
I certainly have done my rounds in other places and would certainly like to retire here. There are pros and cons at every place however no question the stability and culture here is much better as far as i can see.
So lets see what tommorrow brings. Thank you.
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cargo.king140
- Rank 0
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:02 pm
Re: cargojet
great captain foo..atleast we agree that U can not resolve our issues. AND our issues relate to balance . So then we all want to work here as compared to other places the place is certainly solid. I agree with airwaings that if we all give our concerns and speak up and work towards making the company and our lives better.
I am certainly optimistic that situation will be addressed shortly hopefully tommorrow. I do agree that schedules can improve however keep in mind our schedules are atleast not as bad as some of the other airlines that make you consistantly work 22 plus days , over 100 hours each month and count layovers as days off !!!
I also suggest lets work together and get these issues resolved.
hOWEVER I REALLY DONT BELIEVE WE ARE BEING VERY FAIR AND OBJECTIVE IN MAKING COMMENTS THAT OUR CEO, IS NICE TO OUR WIVES AND THAT DOESNT CUT IT !! I HAVE WORKED AT MANY PLACES WHERE CEO DOESNT GIVE A SHIT AND WE NEVER SEE THEM NEVER MIND THEY LISTENING OR BEING NICE. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT OUR CEO CARES TO HAVE FAMILY FUNCTIONS AND GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO MAKE US AND OUR FAMILIES FEEL PART OF THE FAMILY. IF HE DISNT CARE HE WOULDNT HAVE THESE FUNCTIONS. HE IS I AM SURE VERY WELL OFF AND HE DOESNT NEED TO DO ALL THIS.
I HAVE ONE REQUEST AND IF NOTHING ELSE LETS NOT LOOSE OUR CULTURE ND ALL THIS WHAT WE HAVE IN TRYING TO IMPROVE THE BALANCE. LETS KEEP OUR COMMUNICATIONS TO REAL ISSUES IN THE MOST POSITIVE AND EFFECTIVE MAANER OTHERWISE WE ARE BEING OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES.
I am certainly optimistic that situation will be addressed shortly hopefully tommorrow. I do agree that schedules can improve however keep in mind our schedules are atleast not as bad as some of the other airlines that make you consistantly work 22 plus days , over 100 hours each month and count layovers as days off !!!
I also suggest lets work together and get these issues resolved.
hOWEVER I REALLY DONT BELIEVE WE ARE BEING VERY FAIR AND OBJECTIVE IN MAKING COMMENTS THAT OUR CEO, IS NICE TO OUR WIVES AND THAT DOESNT CUT IT !! I HAVE WORKED AT MANY PLACES WHERE CEO DOESNT GIVE A SHIT AND WE NEVER SEE THEM NEVER MIND THEY LISTENING OR BEING NICE. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT OUR CEO CARES TO HAVE FAMILY FUNCTIONS AND GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO MAKE US AND OUR FAMILIES FEEL PART OF THE FAMILY. IF HE DISNT CARE HE WOULDNT HAVE THESE FUNCTIONS. HE IS I AM SURE VERY WELL OFF AND HE DOESNT NEED TO DO ALL THIS.
I HAVE ONE REQUEST AND IF NOTHING ELSE LETS NOT LOOSE OUR CULTURE ND ALL THIS WHAT WE HAVE IN TRYING TO IMPROVE THE BALANCE. LETS KEEP OUR COMMUNICATIONS TO REAL ISSUES IN THE MOST POSITIVE AND EFFECTIVE MAANER OTHERWISE WE ARE BEING OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES.
Re: cargojet
Captain Foo,
It's a pleasure to read your posts. Truely. But please don't, in an effort to forward your own arguement, blatantly misrepresent what others including myself have expressed.
Kool-Aid fountain? How's that? Is it Kool-Aid because we propose that not everything sucks here always? Or heaven forbid, even go as far as suggesting that notwithstanding some of the issues, which we've all acknowledged, that there are also some pretty exceptional and unique elements exclusive to Cargojet? Or is it Kool-Aid because it comes in response to, to use your words, misleading prior posts?
Some of 'us' didn't start this thread either, but felt equally compelled to lend to a single sided and sometimes arguably distorted account, some much needed balance of its' own. Please note that the raw-raw always follows the poo-poo, not the other way around.
Issues do exist, as they do everywhere else. There's not enough Kool-Aid in Sunnyvale Trailor Park for anyone to deny this. As 579 quite rightly points out, some of us who on balance see this as a positive and rewarding experience, have been here since the beginning or near to it. I think this is what 579 meant by "One of them is near the top". There's more than just one of 'us'.
Among of the benefits of having spent the past 5 years here is the ability to look back and see that although issues inevitably exist and periodically new ones arise, there has been significantly more progress than deterioration with respect to overall conditions. This being the case, there are more issues resolved than there are created. The improvements have been consistent and incremental on a year by year basis and as long as this trend continues, all things considered, I think we're on to a pretty good thing.
So, I'm going to guzzle down my smiley-faced jug of Purplesaurus Rex and hold out for the conference call tomorrow, got a feeling we're going to see the upward trend continue. Oozing glory hole story enough for ya?
Seabass
It's a pleasure to read your posts. Truely. But please don't, in an effort to forward your own arguement, blatantly misrepresent what others including myself have expressed.
Kool-Aid fountain? How's that? Is it Kool-Aid because we propose that not everything sucks here always? Or heaven forbid, even go as far as suggesting that notwithstanding some of the issues, which we've all acknowledged, that there are also some pretty exceptional and unique elements exclusive to Cargojet? Or is it Kool-Aid because it comes in response to, to use your words, misleading prior posts?
Some of 'us' didn't start this thread either, but felt equally compelled to lend to a single sided and sometimes arguably distorted account, some much needed balance of its' own. Please note that the raw-raw always follows the poo-poo, not the other way around.
Issues do exist, as they do everywhere else. There's not enough Kool-Aid in Sunnyvale Trailor Park for anyone to deny this. As 579 quite rightly points out, some of us who on balance see this as a positive and rewarding experience, have been here since the beginning or near to it. I think this is what 579 meant by "One of them is near the top". There's more than just one of 'us'.
Among of the benefits of having spent the past 5 years here is the ability to look back and see that although issues inevitably exist and periodically new ones arise, there has been significantly more progress than deterioration with respect to overall conditions. This being the case, there are more issues resolved than there are created. The improvements have been consistent and incremental on a year by year basis and as long as this trend continues, all things considered, I think we're on to a pretty good thing.
So, I'm going to guzzle down my smiley-faced jug of Purplesaurus Rex and hold out for the conference call tomorrow, got a feeling we're going to see the upward trend continue. Oozing glory hole story enough for ya?
Seabass
Re: cargojet
This is quite the debate. I am guessing the ad's for new hires are to help relieve some of you.
If your on days off, can't you just say NO to working extra shifts?
Just some questions about the actual job..
I am curious if CJ has any female pilots on staff? What is the wait time to move up from S/O to F/O, is it seniority based, how long is the wait right now?
Do you receive interline travel benefits?
If your on days off, can't you just say NO to working extra shifts?
Just some questions about the actual job..
I am curious if CJ has any female pilots on staff? What is the wait time to move up from S/O to F/O, is it seniority based, how long is the wait right now?
Do you receive interline travel benefits?
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CaptainHaddock
- Rank 4
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:22 am
- Location: Nowhere fast
Re: cargojet
Hello V1,
You are correct,the ads are to augment the crews at Cargojet to provide some schedule relief and greatly appreciated by majority of the pilots and thier families.I believe we have 4 or 5 women flying for Cargojet. I'm not 100% sure as to how the upgrades from S/O to F/O pan out now that Prince Edward Air is in the mix.But back to right seat has been incredibly brief in the past few months.Guys just hired for the back (not even finished S/O training yet) were able to bid and hold right seat in YMX and YVR (based on your master seniority #).
The previous posts are actually a good cross section of attitudes and thoughts on the company.It is a relatively new company with A LOT of changes and growth going on in the 5 years.It has RRSP matching plan,benefits,good bases,you stay in nice hotels,the wages are good(Flak jacket on-All is relative,this is the best/most money I've made in 11 years flying in the industry).2 767-200's and a 757-200 arriving this summer.the thorny issue is the 12 SDO's(Sheduled days off) and being drafted that was where most of the venom of earlier posts was directed at.The company has certainly demonstrated a real commitment to allieviating that though by a series of actions already taking place (ex-the Ad's)
It is by far the best company I have ever worked for, if you are genuinely interested you should try emailing George Sugar for clarification of your question.Or maybe someone who is more knowlegeable about the questions can post a response
Cheers CaptainHaddock
PS-missed the last question,we do not have interline unfortunately
You are correct,the ads are to augment the crews at Cargojet to provide some schedule relief and greatly appreciated by majority of the pilots and thier families.I believe we have 4 or 5 women flying for Cargojet. I'm not 100% sure as to how the upgrades from S/O to F/O pan out now that Prince Edward Air is in the mix.But back to right seat has been incredibly brief in the past few months.Guys just hired for the back (not even finished S/O training yet) were able to bid and hold right seat in YMX and YVR (based on your master seniority #).
The previous posts are actually a good cross section of attitudes and thoughts on the company.It is a relatively new company with A LOT of changes and growth going on in the 5 years.It has RRSP matching plan,benefits,good bases,you stay in nice hotels,the wages are good(Flak jacket on-All is relative,this is the best/most money I've made in 11 years flying in the industry).2 767-200's and a 757-200 arriving this summer.the thorny issue is the 12 SDO's(Sheduled days off) and being drafted that was where most of the venom of earlier posts was directed at.The company has certainly demonstrated a real commitment to allieviating that though by a series of actions already taking place (ex-the Ad's)
It is by far the best company I have ever worked for, if you are genuinely interested you should try emailing George Sugar for clarification of your question.Or maybe someone who is more knowlegeable about the questions can post a response
Cheers CaptainHaddock
PS-missed the last question,we do not have interline unfortunately
Billions of Bilious Blue Blistering Barnacles!
