Voluntary Safety Shutdown of OP's

[Meecka]

STl... you were kidding!!??? LOL!!! I knew that. You don't strike me as a mechanic hater. "Whew"????, He he he... ya I guess as my avatar says... we are the dark side!

[Meecka]

If the student was trained properly, then they would have known that there is no reason to snag for that.

I do fervently hope you are not attempting to infer that the flight school that I do maintenance for does not properly train their students. Because I have worked for other companies that did maintenance for flight schools and the sangs i got at that time where quite similar to the carpet one. Does this mean that they as well were not properly training their students? I would hazard a guess that your Maintenance staff get similar snags daily. Enough of this.. I tire of this diatribe.

Now back to your regularly scheduled rant.

[mfcstudent]

If the student was trained properly, then they would have known that there is no reason to snag for that.

I do fervently hope you are not attempting to infer that the flight school that I do maintenance for does not properly train their students. Because I have worked for other companies that did maintenance for flight schools and the sangs i got at that time where quite similar to the carpet one. Does this mean that they as well were not properly training their students? I would hazard a guess that your Maintenance staff get similar snags daily. Enough of this.. I tire of this diatribe.

Now back to your regularly scheduled rant.

I was not implying that the particular school you work for does not train it's students. It was just a comment.

[Cat Driver]

STl... you were kidding!!??? LOL!!! I knew that. You don't strike me as a mechanic hater. "Whew"????, He he he... ya I guess as my avatar says... we are the dark side!

Meecka, if we are the dark side then pilots are black holes in space.

As to pilots writing chicken sh.t snags......well maybe they are not chicken sh.t but I have seen some real dumb ones, in fact I would like to write a book......written by airplane mechanics.....

" Snags I have seen written by pilots. "

That would be a real read.

[The Hammer]

Honestly as a parent it is difficult for me to deal with these issues.

My son does not want me to approach the school as he fears this will effect his career.

He says the pilot community is tightly knit. He fears if I complain his chances of becoming a flight instructor might be jeopardized. Not only that but he feels future career opportunities might be jeopardized.

My son constantly complains of many other issues.


Thank you for listening to my rant.

Theboard
You better tell your son to "grow a pair" because unless he is really lucky he will likely very soon work for a company that will pressure him to "interpret" the rules to the operator's benefit. This is especially true if the boom slows down. This will involve using judgement calls to interpret what is/isn't legal versus what is /isn't safe.(There are some pretty stupid rules out there that increase risks and some "legal" actions that are just plane stupid)

This may involving walking away from a "good" (ie lots of flying, good money) job and possibly leaving behind a bond or telling his boss "NO" and being punished for it (ie less flying/ no advancement).

This is the way the real world works. "not just aviation"

PS Would you like your son to fly a plane that is worked on often or one that hasn't been done for maintence in over a year?? The average airliner is pretty much completely taken apart every 2-3 years (5000 hrs) in addition to it's regular checks/maintenance.

[Meecka]

Cat, you're writing comedies now??? Te he he he he!!!!

[CYQMer]

Yes the shut down does suck for the people at MFC.
But as mentioned earlier at least the school did it, most others might have not done anything.

Hopefully it will not last too long.

[ragbagflyer]

Theboard
You better tell your son to "grow a pair" because unless he is really lucky he will likely very soon work for a company that will pressure him to "interpret" the rules to the operator's benefit. This is especially true if the boom slows down. This will involve using judgement calls to interpret what is/isn't legal versus what is /isn't safe.(There are some pretty stupid rules out there that increase risks and some "legal" actions that are just plane stupid)

This may involving walking away from a "good" (ie lots of flying, good money) job and possibly leaving behind a bond or telling his boss "NO" and being punished for it (ie less flying/ no advancement).

This is the way the real world works. "not just aviation"

PS Would you like your son to fly a plane that is worked on often or one that hasn't been done for maintence in over a year?? The average airliner is pretty much completely taken apart every 2-3 years (5000 hrs) in addition to it's regular checks/maintenance.

That's bullshit. This school is a joke. You think a list of CADORs like MFC's and having to suspend operations is normal? There's obviously serious issues here and if a new student takes issue with it there's nothing wrong with that. I'd be more worried about the students that don't have serious concerns with this place.

[shitdisturber]

Yes the shut down does suck for the people at MFC.
But as mentioned earlier at least the school did it, most others might have not done anything.

Hopefully it will not last too long.

No operation, at any level shuts down voluntarily unless they're going to be shut down! Doing it on your own MAY get you going earlier than if transport does it to you. They didn't do anything praiseworthy, just tried to limit the damage.

[CD]

Although I'm not aware of the specific issues surrounding this decision by MFC, it's not completely unheard of - although probably very rare in Canada. The various US armed forces often have safety stand downs, sometimes in response to accidents and incidents and sometimes simply to take a pause to review operations and safety procedures and checklists:

Safety Stand Down Ideas
Naval Aviation Conducts Stand Down to Focus on Safety
ACC orders commandwide standdown Friday

Bombardier also conducts an annual safety program: Bombardier Safety Standdown

It's really not a bad concept but something that a commercial business would likely be unable to do. Flight training organizations, on the other hand, would be able to do this without a negative financial impact.

That's just another point of view...

[squawk 7600]

Me thinks that allowing the Chinese to come in to the school was a bad idea. I'm guessing the people in charge got very excited at the $$$ prospects. I bet the higher-ups are kicking themselves now.

***Edited for completely ignorant bias - stl***

[shitdisturber]

Me thinks that allowing the Chinese to come in to the school was a bad idea. I'm guessing the people in charge got very excited at the $$$ prospects. I bet the higher-ups are kicking themselves now. ***Edited***

Somebody always has to bring a discussion down to vulgarity or bigotry; congratulations on being the one.

[Tim]

Me thinks that allowing the Chinese to come in to the school was a bad idea. I'm guessing the people in charge got very excited at the $$$ prospects. I bet the higher-ups are kicking themselves now. ***Edited***

The Chinese students can't take the blame for this one. I've seen plenty of them pass with flying colours and plenty suck, just like any group of Canadian students. Since when is driving a car a pre-requisite for being a pilot? Perhaps more of the Chinese students shouldn't pass, but how many Canadian students 'buy' their licenses all accross the country. In fact, the work ethic of the majority of the Chinese students is leaps and bounds above the average Canadian student. People who use their language issues to judge the caliber of the pilot are ignorant.

[squawk 7600]

That was, of course, a joke. I have many friends who are chinese and are great pilots. Some of them even work for Cathay. But there is a running joke in this groups of friends about their driving abilities vs their flying. I mean no offense, just adding light to a thread that was verging on ridiculousness in the first place.

[5x5]

It's really not a bad concept but something that a commercial business would likely be unable to do. Flight training organizations, on the other hand, would be able to do this without a negative financial impact.

CD, I'm curious why you think that a Flight School (which happens to be a commercial business) can shut down without negative financial impact?

[sky's the limit]

That was, of course, a joke. I have many friends who are chinese and are great pilots. Some of them even work for Cathay. But there is a running joke in this groups of friends about their driving abilities vs their flying. I mean no offense, just adding light to a thread that was verging on ridiculousness in the first place.

7600,

I don't care if you were adopted by Chinese people, those type of comments are not welcome here.

Have you ever been to China, Asia? Tell me they can't drive.... They just drive a whole lot differently.

I suppose you got your license taught to you in a foreign country with a completely different language and cultural customs? I'm sure you did just great.

From reading this, I think Ragbag is right - this school has an issue. Voluntary shutdown or not, that list of Cadors is not acceptable, and whoever posted that it is "the national average" is hopefully nowhere near management, because that type of attitude towards incidents/accidents in ANY operation is unacceptable. How many fatalities are the "national average?" The goal is ZERO incidents and accidents, and while in large outfits that may be sometimes unattainable, it HAS to be the goal. There are many companies worldwide that dwarf MFC in size, and operate in FAR more difficult sectors of the industry who are able to attain this - why not them?

stl

[hairdo]

As an informed person, I am somewhat disappointed by what I have read in this thread.

First, it was started by someone who doesn't know sh.t about MFCs operation, let alone flying (re: "He says the pilot community is tightly knit."). Yes there have been a number of incidences over the past few days which have lead to the Voluntary Shutdown. And to address other parties who try to insinuate that this was a TC enforced shutdown, thats bullsh.t, hence the reason that it was VOLUNTARY.

Second issue is directly with theboard. If your son is behind, it is completely self induced. The only people who are behind in their training at MFC are those who haven't worked hard enough at it. There is no reason for him to be behind but himself. As for the aircraft that are down now, they are, for the majority, in for scheduled maintenance. When aircraft easily fly 10hrs per day (on good VFR days), and maintenance is scheduled every 50hrs, you do the math and tell me why they are down so often. As far as maintenance working bankers hours, that's pure bullsh.t. I highly doubt that there is anyone else at the school work regularly works longer hours than them. It is not uncommon for them to work well into the night. And if your son got snapped at by an AME, it was likely because he was being an a**. I have never had one of the AMEs get mad at me, and they have always been very open to answering questions that students and staff have about the aircraft. As far as only one of the four twins being on line, perhaps you should take into account that the 4th twin was recently purchased and is going through all the necessary inspections and paperwork before it comes on line in the next few days.

Third, I pose a question to all of you who are blabbing about the LIST of CADORs. How many of you have actually read or even skimmed through them? From what I am reading, it sounds like none. If any of you do read into MFCs CADORs over the past two years, tell me how many are due to flat tires. I think you will find the number is around 32%.

Hairdo, OUT.

[sky's the limit]

hairdo,

None of us know much about anything on here, that's what makes it so much fun, isn't it?

stl

[CD]

CD, I'm curious why you think that a Flight School (which happens to be a commercial business) can shut down without negative financial impact?

I was thinking more along the lines of an air operator (703/4/5) vs. a college flight training organization. I agree that a private flight school would be impacted...

Also, only for a day or two -- an extended period of downtime would likely begin to negatively effect even a college. The difference that I see with the college flight training organization is that they likely already have their cash in hand through tuition and other up-front charges. So, not conducting flight operations for a short period of time would still see their employees being paid and they wouldn't necessarily be "losing" any money as they do not need to maximize aircraft utlization to generate revenue by selling tickets passengers or rental hours to the public.

[CYQMer]

This is all over the News now here in Moncton.

Just heard an interview with the school principle/ceo and he states that this shut down was not mandated by Transport Canada, but completely voluntary.

The news radio station I listened to went into pretty good detail. Almost sounds like they read the initial posting word for word!

Makes you wonder how much media we have lurking around here.

The reporter did state that if the aircraft managed to take off with the engine cowl cover on it would have stalled which I don't think is correct.

I heard that the guy in Fredericton managed to hit the approach lights and imbeded one of the strobes into his wing. He then continued to fly another circuit with the light attached to the aircraft wing spar! Don't know if this is true but if it is I am sure the aircraft was extremely unstable and I am not sure how he managed to control the thing.

I am at the school quite a bit and hope they get this thing sorted because at this rate they will be out of aircraft in no time.

By the way does anyone remember this from a few months back:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... on#p359796

[mellow_pilot]

Do know though, that your son is attending one of the best flight schools in the country and that your money is not going to waste as it may seem to you.

Wow Jimmy! That's just what the guy at my school said!! They said they were the best school in the country and that Jazz was waiting for me to finish up... They can't both be the best, can they? Maybe all the schools in Canada are tied...

[2-33_BH06]

a voluntary shutdown is much better than them having a major accident and god forbid, someone getting hurt.

and its hard for anyone to speak of what actually happened while not actually being there and witnessing things as they happen.

[MFCCPL]

Do know though, that your son is attending one of the best flight schools in the country and that your money is not going to waste as it may seem to you.

Wow Jimmy! That's just what the guy at my school said!! They said they were the best school in the country and that Jazz was waiting for me to finish up... They can't both be the best, can they? Maybe all the schools in Canada are tied...

Is your "dyslexia" affecting you?! I purposefully said one of the best flight schools, try reading before bitch.ng to others................................

[mellow_pilot]

Try reading sarcasm when it's written. Calmaricus, calmaricus.

Now, where's that ad for the PPC sale?

[SmokinJoe]

I graduated from MFC a couple years ago and if I had to do it all over again I would have just saved 10-15 thousand bucks and gone somewhere else to get my tickets. The community college stuff you go through was a joke. It was just to give you a diploma then actually learn anything usefull or pratical. When I was there in my last year they had just picked up their first six Diamonds. Neat little planes, just about everyone liked them, untill they got some hours put on them. Good friends of mine who are instructors their tell me about engine failures, power losses and such. Old room mate of mine had to put one down in a field shortly after the school purchased them. As far as the administration goes, they just want you to pay your tuition and leave. There is no "i'm the customer" mentality there. It's like your in Jr. High again. I think that when they started getting the Chineese students there, they were not prepared for the language barrier, as well as the added workload that would be on the instructors, maintanance, administration, as well as ATC. I also believe that the school has alot of pressure from the Chineese to get their students through the course so that the next batch can come over. Anyway I could go on and on but i just get more frustrated.

My two cents..