French vs English

[Jim la Jungle]

Snaproll, with that last sentence, you are just looking for trouble

[yodan]

Snaproll, with that last sentence, you are just looking for trouble

Snap Roll, you need to see the world. I have to agree with Jungle Jim.

Considering the way French is taught in schools, it's no wonder few Canadians are bilingual. I took it for eleven years, not a chance I could communicate with anyone. But send me Skiing in Mont Sainte Anne for a week and it starts to make some sense. That's the only way to learn

That is true in any language. there's nothing wrong in lerning it in school, but it must be followed by being immersed in an environment where that language is spoken otherwise it's a waste of time.

Canada recognizes French and English as the two official languages of this country. This is basically why certain areas of the country (the east) offer ATC services in French. ATC controllers who work Montreal TCA (or anything "NavCanada") must be bilingual.

Careful.You are confusing official languages with bilingualism. Agreed that Canada has accepted both French and English as our official languages, but bilingualism does not imply French and English. Bilingualism means 2 languages.

I was born, raised and educated in Quebec and I speak 4 languages fluently with a degree in translation. Thanks to my military service, I have been outside my "cocoon" and although Ex-Pat makes some very valid comments, whenever I fly into "the homeland" I have to pause to "translate" French R/T into English because I fly in English...so to speak. That brief moment of uncertainty translates into brief loss of situational awareness. In addition to the supporting documentation prersented by CD = Unacceptable. Sorry.

[Spokes]

Careful.You are confusing official languages with bilingualism. Agreed that Canada has accepted both French and English as our official languages, but bilingualism does not imply French and English. Bilingualism means 2 languages.

In Canada, official bilingualism is defined in terms of English and French. The greater mor generic definition would be simply 'two languages'

[mellow_pilot]

When I was in YQB getting my private there was a lot of problems with language. While we were there, a British cargo plane was clipped by an Air France passanger flight (in France). Copilot of the Brit machine took the wingtip in the head. All because someone on the French crew had said something to the controller and his response was interpreted by the Brit crew as a clearence for them to take off. Air France was on the roll as they entered the runway.

That kinda brought it home for us. It wasn't so bad for me, I speak French and had little trouble (except for a few seperatist blank-ity-blanks at the other flight school who though it was funny to make false reports). I really felt bad for my anglo friends though. A couple of them had close calls in the practice areas.

I do think it's a real problem. I don't know how to fix it in a fair manner.

[-=Nemesis=-]

Considering the way French is taught in schools, it's no wonder few Canadians are bilingual. I took it for eleven years, not a chance I could communicate with anyone. But send me Skiing in Mont Sainte Anne for a week and it starts to make some sense. That's the only way to learn.

I finally decided to drop it in Grade 12 because it was lowering my average potentially preventing me from furthering my studies in science. If I need to study physics, french should not prevent me from doing so, that's why people drop it. Imagine cutting your quarterback because he never took home econonmics. It needs to be taught properly for the right reasons, and not have artificial penalties applied for not learning it.

Same thing in Quebec. Most people in rural areas don't understand english at all except yes and no. Mandatory english communication would problably be riskier in those areas.

[KAG]

Numerous times flying into YUL and YQB I have noticed that we are the only English speaking crews flying. Not to sound UN “PC” but does this sound unsafe to anyone else? I know at Jazz we had a near miss with an RJ and a C172 on final because of this very language issue.
I’ve felt at times my S.A. was greatly hindered by majority French on the radio. Simple things like taxiing can become an issue especially in YUL because everyone is talking in French and that airport is kind of a goat show at the best of days.
English is the international language of the skies, so why is it so special in Quebec? I can understand other languages spoken in other countries, but not in our own country.

Also, as a non aviation question, why is Canada supposed to have English and French signs/products/directions ETC, but Quebec has mostly only French?

[Bae146]

Why you don t try to learn some basic french ? After all Canada is a bilingual country

[whoop whoop pull up]

Numerous times flying into YUL and YQB I have noticed that we are the only English speaking crews flying.

Learn French because you are the minority in YUL/YQB and stop whining !

[Doc]

You're correct. It is TOTALLY unsafe. Only in Quebec you say? Of course. It's simply because Canada trips over itself to be Politically Correct. Face it, almost THREE PERCENT of the North American population speaks French. Therefore we must endure this in the name of Canada. Funny thing though, we never hear Spanish spoken in Florida airports? Regardless of how our Quebec friends feel about it...it IS unsafe.http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/posting. ... 54&t=40361#
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/posting.php?mod ... 54&t=40361#
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/posting. ... 54&t=40361#

[Ogee]

French is one of the two official ICAO languages of aviation.

[xsbank]

Actually, on Montreal Island now 52% of the populace is allophone.

[Doc]

Oh really? So, I'll bite. Where else do they speak French. Orly Speaks English....and that's in a pretty French neighborhood.

[FOwithBO]

Learn French huh? Thats been attempted in the public school system for a 100 years, it doesnt work. Not all schools are French Immersion. And I dont feel like buying a Rosseta Stone crash course just to make Quebec pilots/atc happy. Why dont you guys LEARN to obey ICAO law and talk English when your flying?!? Or just separate with Canada, and I'll rake in foriegn perdiems when I fly there and not have to worry about ballsless, unpatriotic Canadian citizens anymore.


Peace baby.

[whoop whoop pull up]

Many countries allow their native language on the air. Just look at all the South American countries! Quebec isn't a country but we are a different culture.

[whoop whoop pull up]

Learn French huh? Thats been attempted in the public school system for a 100 years, it doesnt work. Not all schools are French Immersion. And I dont feel like buying a Rosseta Stone crash course just to make Quebec pilots/atc happy. Why dont you guys LEARN to obey ICAO law and talk English when your flying?!? Or just separate with Canada, and I'll rake in foriegn perdiems when I fly there and not have to worry about ballsless, unpatriotic Canadian citizens anymore.
Peace baby.

You should learn French to make yourself happy! We do not care about you only being able to speak one language.

We obey the law, we are allowed to fly and speak French .

[Carrier]

I refer you to the thread “Flying in Quebec – Don’t speak French” on the Canada forum of http://www.pprune.com

This whole issue has been beaten to death there in the past couple of weeks. Why reinvent the wheel here?

[Doc]

While we're at it. Why French? I mean, in schools? Why not Spanish? The fact we're a bilingual country aside. Quebec French is useless on the world stage. It's good for Canadian Government employees, and ski trips to Mount Tremblant. But it's useless for trips to Paris. Our vacation destinations are mostly the USA, or Spanish speaking countries. Mexico, Cuba etc. Our trading partners do not speak Quebec French. Some speak France French. But our schools don't teach France French, now do they? I'm considering taking Spanish. Not in the least interested in learning a language spoken by less than three percent of the North and South American population, just so I can say "Bonjour" in YQB or YUL.

[KAG]

Why you don t try to learn some basic french ? After all Canada is a bilingual country

I actually do know some basic French; I also am trying to learn more. I just think jumping between 2 languages leaves room for misunderstanding. We all know how many people have died due to lack of communication.

This topic also extends in to the flight deck. I know good friends of mine who had to fly with French crews who refused to speak English to them! Even during the crew briefings. How unprofessional is that?!
Even going out for dinner with the crews and excluding the English speaking crew member(s) even though they can speak perfect English, they choose not to.
Jazz actually had a couple of flights return to the gate because the Captain spoke French even with the checklist and the copilot couldn’t speak French. Captain refused to budge; the copilots wouldn’t put up with it and unplugged their headsets. Good for them!!
But I digress.

It is unsafe, and I for one and sick and tired of the majority of Canada bending to please a few whiny French complainers. I say few because MOST French folks I’ve worked with were great!

[KAG]

Many countries allow their native language on the air. Just look at all the South American countries! Quebec isn't a country but we are a different culture.

That is the problem right there!!! That sense of entitlement, that your different, your special… no your bloody not!!!
You’re a Canadian, and in this huge country we have MANY distinct societies. Hell one could argue every community is its own different culture, and to a point they are. That my friend is Canada!!!
I’ll give ya one thing, the French do better then most is bitch and complain.

[Doc]

The Captain wouldn't speak English to his co-pilots? That's mind boggling! It's always a "One Way Street"....I've never heard of that in reverse.....

[whoop whoop pull up]

Many countries allow their native language on the air. Just look at all the South American countries! Quebec isn't a country but we are a different culture.

That is the problem right there!!! That sense of entitlement, that your different, your special… no your bloody not!!!
You’re a Canadian, and in this huge country we have MANY distinct societies. Hell one could argue every community is its own different culture, and to a point they are. That my friend is Canada!!!
I’ll give ya one thing, the French do better then most is bitch and complain.

I'm not saying we are different or special. We are French Canadians and we fly and speak French in this part of the country.You just have to deal with the fact that this is the way it is and you wont change it.

''I’ll give ya one thing, the French do better then most is bitch and complain.''
I think your just jealous because we have beautiful woman

[trey kule]

edited so as to be PC

[KAG]

I'm not saying we are different or special. We are French Canadians and we fly and speak French in this part of the country.You just have to deal with the fact that this is the way it is and you wont change it.

Personal feelings/egos aside, do you acknowledge this is a legit safety concern?
What do you think would happen if mid air or serious accident happened and was contributed to this issue? Do you think anything would change then?

[185/310]

KAG wrote:

I’ll give ya one thing, the French do better then most is bitch and complain.

I have more then a few good friends that are french speaking pilots, but that comment is 100 percent correct.

whoop whoop pull up wrote:

''I’ll give ya one thing, the French do better then most is bitch and complain.''
I think your just jealous because we have beautiful woman

I wouldnt say were jealous because we get all your hot women anyways. I must admit I love talking to montreal center when they have those cute sounding controllers working.

[whoop whoop pull up]

I'm not saying we are different or special. We are French Canadians and we fly and speak French in this part of the country.You just have to deal with the fact that this is the way it is and you wont change it.

Personal feelings/egos aside, do you acknowledge this is a legit safety concern?
What do you think would happen if mid air or serious accident happened and was contributed to this issue? Do you think anything would change then?

Yes, they would probably review it