French vs English

[Sasquash]

I certainly would like to commend Buzz light year for his well written response. My first language is also French and like him, I also flew out of St. Hubert years ago. The interesting part was that we did a lot of work in and around Monteal island right smack in Dorval control zone. While we flew in French on the south side, once we crossed the St. Lawrence into Dorval control zone, I switched to English, because that was just plain safer that way, IMHO. It was not the French / English debate, it was just that I didn't want the many other guys to run into me or vice versa, because of misunderstanding. (Sadly my former boss, who I'm sure voted OUI on both occasions, would give me supreme hell for not speaking my mother tongue on the radio.) In any event, I am fortunate to be fluent in both language and I find it quite easy to get along anywhere across our great country of ours!

[CD]

This issue has also been discussed previously here:

AvCanada: French vs English

Can threads be merged?

[lilfssister]

This issue has also been discussed previously here:

AvCanada: French vs English

Can threads be merged?

It wasn't pretty to watch me struggling to figure out how, but apparently, it can!

[CD]

[Gurundu the Rat]

People do you really have any clue....

yes

French being spoken in the air is dangerous.

Can you back that up?

They do speak english on the radio in central and south america, and by the way, also in the cockpit. These are countries that have nothing to do with english, they are strickly other languages. But there pilots speak ENGLISH. So get over it and start speaking english.

Sir! Yes Sir!

I was just in Cuba and took a flight, Guess what.....THEY SPOKE ENGLISH on the radio and also in the cockpit. All there checks where in english. When I flew in central america I used to jump seat on lots of different flights. THEY SPOKE ENGLISH in the cockpit, and I was fluent in spanish at the time, I asked them if that was just for me. They said No, that they do it because it is safer and keeps there english up for speaking on the radio. There takeoff breifings, In English. There checks, In English.

You probably flew on a carrier that wet leased the aircraft and crew. Since these crews all come from different backgrounds it is probable that this companys SOPs were in english. I spent 6 months doing a contract in the caribbean flying to Havana and Santo Domingo amongst a few places and guess what? They speak Spanish amongst themselves over there. Now my spanish isn't that great but anyone that can count from one to ten in spanish and learn a few key words can figure out what is going on around you. Not once did I feel unsafe.

So yes, you speaking french in quebec......sorry not french, quebec french since its basically pesent french from about 400 years ago and isn't actually french. But its dangerous.....and don't bring up the, in other countries crap....because from someone who has flown in many countries, THEY SPEAK ENGLISH.
People do you really have any clue....

LOL, you don't sound like you speak much french, but its ok cuz experts like you know the difference between Quebec french and "real" french.

[THEICEMAN]

I’ve felt at times my S.A. was greatly hindered by majority French on the radio.

Maybe in YQB, but not in YUL. Only the od Jazz, AC, TS and local 703/704 pilots, speak French on the radio.
I would say at least 80% is english & 20% is french.

French being spoken in the air is dangerous.

Can you really back that up? Why does the system work well in France?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that the Chinese & certain latin American countries also have bilingual ATC?

[RIMsky]

For those that are having trouble with the idea of french, I am offering my help. I will translate anything from french to english, and the other way around, that is of course related to aviation terms.

[Liquid Charlie]

I guess this discussion rears it's head all the time because once a "newby" has a little intercourse with the outside world he is surprised to hear something other than his unicom buddies calling downwind -- contrary to what was stated above -- there are many countries out there who control in their local language -- in fact outside of the "english speaking" world I would suggest that english control is in the minority -- english is the "common" language of aviation to allow use to fly around the world and go to places where english isn't spoken.

I deal with this every day and except for the perceived verbosity when there is an exchange in French I see no safety issues -- in fact the heightened awareness should contribute to better safety -- suck it up boys and girls -- leave the plains of abraham to the tourists and take the blinders off and realize that there is a big world out there.

[small penguin]

In my opinion - so long as ATC keeps all the little dots on his/her screen in place, who cares what language is used. Perhaps it's my view as a GA pilot, or the fact that Im fully bilingual...

What's next? AvCanada regulars will complain about aircraft flying ronly or nordo? Wait, Im sure thats been done already. What about gliders flying without transponders? Been done too.

AvCanada... the place to complain about anything and everything!

[linecrew]

Interesting scenario which could come up....


Two aircraft approach uncontrolled airport, one form the east the other from the west, winds are calm. One pilot calls the ATF in French, the other in English. Both decide to enter straight in downwind left to opposite ends of the runway from their perspective direction. Neither understands the the radio calls made and neither happens to see the other 2+ miles away passing in opposite direction. The aircraft then end up head to head in the final approach phase and lets just say for argument sake that there is an unhappy ending.

From the communication aspect (not the "they didn't see each other" apsect), who would be at fault?

[small penguin]

Where is UNICOM in all this? Where is the airport located? As far as I know, French communications happen in the Ottawa valley and Quebec regions. If someone broadcasts in French out in Manitoba, then IMO he is at fault.

If not, then I could see it depending on winds at the airport. When landing at unfamiliar airport, I've always read its best to do a precautionary to check runway and winds.

Still, you're describing a situation that is near impossible. If it does happen, bunch. Someone dies. Thats life.

[Gurundu the Rat]

Interesting scenario which could come up....


Two aircraft approach uncontrolled airport, one form the east the other from the west, winds are calm. One pilot calls the ATF in French, the other in English. Both decide to enter straight in downwind left to opposite ends of the runway from their perspective direction. Neither understands the the radio calls made and neither happens to see the other 2+ miles away passing in opposite direction. The aircraft then end up head to head in the final approach phase and lets just say for argument sake that there is an unhappy ending.

From the communication aspect (not the "they didn't see each other" apsect), who would be at fault?

Francophone pilots know at least enough english to understand a simple "ABC is on downwind for rwy 24". Should such a scenario occur i'm sure said pilot would clarify the situation in english "XYZ hi'm looking, I am over de red barn nort of de airport..over". Your scenario of two aircrafts colliding head on during landing is more likely to occur with a NORDO aircraft than due to a language barrier. Pretty lame if thats your arguement to ban french.

We do know how to speak english you know.

[rd1331]

Actually the crew was cuban. Was not a wet lease, and was a cuban company.

What does it take two airplanes hitting each other and killing a bunch of passengers. For those of you saying back up your "its dangers". Open your eyes look at the stats online. There have been multiple near misses due to communications failures between multiple languages. Yes, none of them hit each other. But what, we should wait till a 172 hits a dash, then decide to change the rules. I'm sure the families of those that die will be very happy to hear that you all thought it was alright, and just because you think its your right to speak french on the radio that overterns the rights of the passenger to live and get to there destination safely. Hmmm....right to speak over right to live.

And Gurundu the Rat.....thats about as good as saying I'm a good listener on the radio. Well if we have a bunch of good listeners, who is doing the talking on the radio. Everyone misses a call everyso often on the radio, even the "good listeners".

It all comes down to the probability of something happening. Shouldn't we try to limit that probability as much as humanly possible. Isn't that the professional thing to do. We are all professionals, we should start acting like it and do our job which is to get passengers to there final destination within the law and as safely as humanly possible. Limiting the probability of accidents is part of this, speaking two languages on the radio does not limit the probability, it increases the probability.

[linecrew]

Where is UNICOM in all this?

Not all airports have a UNICOM.

[linecrew]

Pretty lame if thats your arguement to ban french.

We do know how to speak english you know.

Bloody moron, I never said I was using anything as an argument...and NO not all French pilots flying in the country speak English as you do. This I know for a fact. Otherwise this post would never have been started

Read the actual words I posted...not your spin on them.

[Gurundu the Rat]

But what, we should wait till a 172 hits a dash, then decide to change the rules.

TCAS is a good backup in case of a total and complete communications breakdown. If you follow it, it will save you.

They're speaking french on their radios over there.

[captainbeech]

I quote a famous line in the movie " The Davinci Code " spoken by Sir Ian McKellen's charter

" DON'T TRUST THE FRENCH " !!!

Need i say more


I was head to head with an aircraft once on short final just north east of Dorval ( it sounded like mouche(can't spell it..sorry)). He was making all his calls in French and i was making mine in English.. Made for an interesting conversation once we both landed !!! dumb a s s

[rayban]

Sacre Blue! Let's give the Office de la lanque Francais a call and have them sort it out.

[THEICEMAN]

What does it take two airplanes hitting each other and killing a bunch of passengers. For those of you saying back up your "its dangers". Open your eyes look at the stats online. There have been multiple near misses due to communications failures between multiple languages. Yes, none of them hit each other. But what, we should wait till a 172 hits a dash, then decide to change the rules. I'm sure the families of those that die will be very happy to hear that you all thought it was alright, and just because you think its your right to speak french on the radio that overterns the rights of the passenger to live and get to there destination safely. Hmmm....right to speak over right to live.

oh God, there is just no progres being made at all! Either you have wax in your ears, or you just don't listen!

The Questions.......is there a danger with ATC in Quebec? Not at all!
Can you honestly back up your argument? Have there really been many incidents or accidents in Quebec control zones where, two planes almost collided due to language barriers? Forget what happened in Cuba & forget other parts of the world..........Let's talk about possible dangers in Quebec!
Maybe in MF & ATFs, there might be a problem?

" DON'T TRUST THE FRENCH " !!!
I was head to head with an aircraft once on short final just north east of Dorval ( it sounded like mouche(can't spell it..sorry)). He was making all his calls in French and i was making mine in English.. Made for an interesting conversation once we both landed !!! dumb a s s

It's Mascouche dumbo! & please....come back to Quebec with that attitude! I guarantee you'll get a royal wooping!

What an idiot you are......you think your so smart coming in making anti French remark! It's unintelligent people like you that create barriers between English & French Canada!How about accepting them & stop being intolerant!
Your attitude is very bad for the country! Now you wonder why Quebecers feel so distant at times!

Is it wrong for a weekend francophone private pilot, to fly his little cessna around the area in unctrolled airspace & speak French? He has to take english lessons just to satisfy the minority in the vast airspace?

[Liquid Charlie]

[carholme]

Liquid Charlie:

I wish I had read your instructions a little better. I did what the large letters said but as my head crashed through the computer screen, I instantly realized that I had done something wrong.

I guess I should have been wearing one of those helmets the mosquitoes were using.

carholme

[CD]

[small penguin]

I believe step1 may have been missed there carholme.

As for calling the French pilot a dumbass for making his calls in French - dont you worry, he was probably saying something along the lines of "l'esti d'morron d'Anglais m'ecoutait pas du tout! Prochaine foit j'vais lui en caliser une!"

Besides - Quebec produces some of the prettiest and nicest girls I've met

[AuxBatOn]

I think professionnal pilots should do whatever it takes to make their flights safe. When you, as a professionnal pilot, fly into Quebec, you must realize that there will be some French speaking GA pilots flying around. They don't have to learn English and it would be stupid to make them learn English if they only fly in Quebec. They are not paid to fly (and actually probably pay to fly) and it's a hobby.

You, however, as a Professional Pilot, earn a salary to do your job. You should make sure you are safe to accomplish you goal, which is to fly from point A to point B safely and effectively. If that means learning enough of a new language to understand what the hell is going on, then so be it. Make the effort to learn the language or don't fly in La Belle Province! French GA pilots should NOT be forced to learn English just because you fly your Dash 8 into their MF twice a day. I'm not saying you should be perfectly bilingual but you should at least know enough to keep a good SA when someone makes position reports in French and enough to make an understandable position report yourself.

On the other side, if you are a French Speaking professional pilot, then you should make the effort to :

1- Learn English (it's THE Aviation Language after all), that should not be an option
2- Use it as much as possible, it contributes to flight safety!
3- Use French only when required (ie: you fly into an airport where there is one of those GA that can't speak Ingliche)

In a perfect world, Second Language Training would be part of Professional Flight Training.

AuxBatOn

[small penguin]

Actually from my experiences on various Montreal-area frequencies, I hear more commercial flights in French than I do GA. But AuxBatOn, you have excellent points!

Its a known fact most Anglophones can understand a fair bit of French. Its also a known fact they are too ignorant or lazy to learn how to speak it.

Ingliche

lol! Ahh I miss being in Quebec