Finding someone like me...

[MichaelP]

There I was in my 20's, I'd joined the Tiger Club...
I'd leave work at BAe in Weybridge and drive down to Redhill on a Friday afternoon in my Viva.
I slept in the bunk room besides the club room in the back of the hangar.
Dinner was at the pub...
In the morning I'd get up, open the hangar doors, push 14 aircraft out onto the field making sure they were all fueled and ready to fly.
There were 3 Tiger Moths, a couple of Stampes, several Jodels, the Condor, the Fournier, and the Turbulents and I arranged them all in straight lines...
I was not paid to do this, it was what I did... I won the Chairman's medalion one year for doing such things and bringing so many people into the Tiger Club.

Then I started the Condor Club and did it for myself... Pushing aeroplanes in and out of the hangar, fueling them, checking them, making sure they were properly fit and maintained for flight.
Then I suffered fatigue... Long summer's days, worn out from doing the above and flying with many people teaching aerobatics and tailwheel.
The winter's were depressing, long weeks of cold and rain, a boggy aerodrome, and no money coming in... I'd take a job driving vans around England delivering parcels...
My customers in the flying club would show up with their £140 genuine WWII leather flying jackets they'd bought as they weren't flying... I thought "that's my money!".

That was 31 to 20 years ago...

Now here I am, I get to the aerodrome early, I buy petrol for the Rotax's and bring it in, fuel the Katana's, make sure they're ready to go...
But I'm older and I get fatigued easier... Towing that DA20-C1 across the tarmac in the rain yesterday took its toll on me, I wake up with aching muscles and I wonder; should I still be doing this?

Where can I find an enthusiastic twenty year old who is willing to get up in the morning and do the above?

[1000 HP]

Wish I could help but my Class 4 expired in 1993 and I'm half-way to "old goat" already.

[Grey_Wolf]

MichaelP, you're describing my last Flight Instructing job, except for the medalion part.

After about 8-10 months of doing it religiously, it got old and tiresome. Granted the fleet was half your size,
it added a few hours at the end of the day. And with little to no help, after a 10-12 hour day of instructing, even longer.
BTW, It wasn't unheard of working from 730am to 10pm (in the summer)!

The straw that broke the camel's back, one summer day, was that one of the other instructor(s) commented,
rather snarky-like "What gives, my plane isn't ready?". Having the previous day worked 14 hours due to a dual night cross-country;
arriving home at 1am, I was overly tired, and seeing the fleet scattered across the ramp, I decided to get rest instead
of taking an extra hour or so to fuel/move/tie them down. Given that this instructor worked 9-3 Mon to Fri without fail;
and always escaped the duties of having to come in early to de-ice (in winter), and in staying late to fuel/move/tie down (in summer);
they got a little "surprise" later that morning (when I came in around ten-ish) when I told them to stick it.

Having talked to management, I simply stated: "Equal Pay for Equal Work", which fell on deaf ears. So that night,
I made sure *my* planes/booking we taken care of. The rest of the fleet simply sat where they were left that day,
and, not to mention, from that day onward. That didn't go overly well the next morning.

About a month later, they decided to hire a ramp attendant to assit, but I never saw a raise.

A week later, my two weeks notice was in, I was moving on ...

Long story short, keep the folks working the ramp happy! Treat them with respect, and make sure that respect is genuine.

[MichaelP]

I escaped with Francois in the SportStar for a couple of hours.
Spent some time in the CYPK tower watching the aeroplanes on the radar screen...
Then came back to:
Answer a couple of phone calls.
Put petrol in WAP and taxy it to the hangar.
Redo the tiedowns for EML.
Answer a ton of questions...

It's 19:20, I'm tired and I must go to bed soon.

Tomorrow begins at 07:00 and ends...????

[200hr Wonder]

Micheal I would love to do that in the worst way for you. I have no problem "running the show"

No problem being first in last out, and I enjoy coming in to a fully fueled, ready to go fleet. Nothing better than putting on a good pot of coffee, releasing the masses on the fleet knowing they are ready to go.

During my summers with Cadets, it seems I was always the one pushing planes, fueling planes, getting everything lined up to happen, problem is when you are stuck with people who only care about them selves, borrow your plane (We had more or less assigned planes) return it with no fuel the next AM, block taxi ways because they are inconsiderate and do not stop to think that other people may want to taxi before them. It is no wonder it gets a little tiring.

Bottom line is this, if I where a line instructor/fleet manager and where paid to do fleet managing duties, no problem, but I think what happens most of the time is one person just does it and gets walked on. It has happened to me, and I can't say I enjoy being the go to guy for the same money or reward as the next guy who just does the 9-5.

[MichaelP]

I think I need to find a person like me, the way I was back then, to come in here before 08:00 with the responsibility to fuel the aeroplanes, and make sure they're clean and ready for action.
This person needs a driving licence, and if he/she has a PPL we'll offer the aeroplanes at the employee rates... Perhaps even dual for someone wanting to learn.
Must be a very hard worker.

[avmg]

I think that all sounds familiar.. I am in @ 0730 this morning, fueling, checking hours to next maintenance, etc.. I am in a position of being able to fly through the day instructing though. Michael, I think you have the right idea as far as putting a private pilot to work through the summer, a portion of my commercial training was earned by washing planes and looking after the business. If you find the right person, make sure they are compensated well!

-Good flying..

[Cat Driver]

When I operated my school I assigned each instructor an airplane to look after as far as being ready for the day.

That worked quite well.

[200hr Wonder]

Yeah when I was working the Cadets each instructor had there own plane, lets say mine was always fueled, cleaned and ready to go for the next morning, and my students always seemed to be in the air first.

[MichaelP]

Right now there's three of us, and three aeroplanes + the SportStar (4).
Next week we'll get another aeroplane, a DA40 fully loaded!
Our open house was a huge success, perhaps too huge, and it shows that there's been a latent hunger for something different to the sea of aging aluminium outside.

[shamrock104]

Michael, let me get the renewal out of the way and I will assist you to drag aeroplanes in the early AM but the beers will be on you at the end of the day- just kidding.

[canpilot]

Michael P..

I think I might be what you are looking for ...However, i would only be a temporary fix.. And i'd have to get my training out of the way before I'd have time to help you out.. And I'm looking for summer bush work so i'd be helping out in between jobs.

I can ask around my local air cadet squadron and YVR south if you wish. I also know a few AME students?


I can't wait to start the dragger training with you. give me a week or two to get the heavy slogging out of the way with my MIFR.

I'm suprised more people aren't jumping at this opportunity... London Secondary School in Richmond also has an aviation program..you might find some help there.

I find today's "youth" are more interested in game cube, pokemon and sitting on their arse than anything else.. Its pathetic!

Best of Luck Mike!

P.S. I love what you guys are doing at Sea Land. The change has been needed for quite a while!

[C-GGGQ]

Love to help, but its a few provinces away and I already get the pleasure of doing that stuff as an instructor (we double as ground crew along with dispatch). I am also surprised that no one has come forward, figured even a student who would like to earn some money for training.

[ragbagflyer]

MichaelP, are you asking somebody to work for free? That's what we should be trying to discourage in aviation.

[MichaelP]

While I have done a million things myself FOC I would not ask anyone to work for nothing!
I never have and I never will, I've always properly rewarded people for their efforts.

[Wilbur]

What are you looking for Micheal, and what are you running? I've belonged to a not for profit flying club that had no commercial school operation and everyone was expected to contribute as a basic condition of membership. Of course, some contributed more than others, and some didn't hold up their end at all. That is, in my view, an inescapable reality in any group. But nobody was paid or making money - it was a purely social flying club.

On the other hand, if you manage/own a commercial flying school/club that people earn a living from, then why would you think anyone but you should be doing these work functions for free? If you are paying them to do the work, but they aren't, then it's a straight labour relations/disciplinary issue. If you aren't currently paying anyone, hire a ramp person or pay your instructors an hourly wage and make these ramp functions part of their job description.

Baby boomer managers often still cling to notions around "loyalty to employers." "doing extra work for the boss," "doing whatever it takes," etc. These values have been relegated to the scrap pile by the late boomers, gen x and gen y's as they have seen their ultimate true worth. The late boomers experienced, or saw their friends experience, being "downsized" by their employers through the 80's regardless of their level of dedication and work ethic. The younger people saw it happen to their parents. The lesson learned - hard work and dedication won't get, or keep you employed. Skills and knowledge do. Hence, younger people are typically interested in doing things that will build their skill and knowledge base, and they will work extra hours to do that. But they won't put in extra time doing mindless chores. If you are looking for free work, you might have more luck finding someone willing to work extra hours learning the business management side of your operation, which could free you up to do the simple chores.

[BoostedNihilist]

.

[MichaelP]

What you are really looking for is a young guy with a passion for aviation...

You're right.

but I would bet that you would have better luck finding a 16 year old to come and do it before school in exchange for some flying lessons.

When I had my first flying business I did have a girl who came every summer to help. Her father flew my aeroplanes.
She was 15 when she started, and 18 when something very odd happened...

[lownslow]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

I read your post earlier this week and it's been nagging at me ever since. Without getting too wordy, I think I'm the guy you're looking for. I'm twenty-something years old and looking for an instructing job. Yes, I love to fly and I've paid my own way all the way through. If you're serious, PM me all the details and maybe we can work something out.

The passion lives, you just have to look a little harder these days.

Low-N-Slow

[albertdesalvo]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Thanks for demonstrating your judgement skills. Ever heard of a PM? Bzzzztttt....... next.

[lownslow]

Ever heard of a PM? Bzzzztttt....... next.

Yes I have, I've used them too. I only wanted to publicly say there are younger pilots who have the passion for flying that some had said was dead.

By the way, if you want to chase me off after making only one post (oops, it's two now) I guess that just goes to show why I've lurked so long.

Low-N-Slow

[Cat Driver]

Don't let anyone run you off.

This is an open forum and you are free to give your opinions and thoughts.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting to work and fly.....as long as it is not for free.

[lilfssister]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Thanks for demonstrating your judgement skills. Ever heard of a PM? Bzzzztttt....... next.

I think if you look closely at lownslow's post you'll see he mentioned PMs.

Thanks for demonstrating your reading skills

[albertdesalvo]

I think if you look closely at lownslow's post you'll see he mentioned PMs.

Yeah, right after he announced he'd work for free. On these forums, that's like waving a red flag at a bull.

[Hoov]

I think if you look closely at lownslow's post you'll see he mentioned PMs.

Yeah, right after he announced he'd work for free. On these forums, that's like waving a red flag at a bull.

I think you missread, he said he has paid his own way through. Not that he is willing to work for free, unless I am reading it wrong?