Perimeter

[AV8OR]

A few questions about Perimeter if any of you guys know.

Do they hire guys as F/O directly or are they required to work the ramp first?
And if they do, what time are they looking for? (I know their website states 250)
Which aircraft would you expect to be placed on?
Is there a training bond?
Rough idea of pay?
Schedule?
Thoughts on the company in general.

Thanks

[Captain Crunch]

Yes we do hire FO's directly, but they are usually ones with a bunch of time... If you are at 250, you will probably have to work the ramp.
As far as 250 goes, it's just a number, more or less they just want someone with CPL Multi IFR. If you finished your training in 200 hours, that wont hold you back.
Typically first aircraft to fly is right seat in the Metro 2, but the Beech 99 in YTH, or even the Metro 3 in YWG if you're lucky is possible.
Training bond usually only for the guys who are hired from outside with time.
Pay has become a little better then it used to for FO's, but don't plan on having tons of cash to spare. Captain pay is pretty good to start, and very good for those that last more then 5 years.
Schedule is 16 days a month, with OT beyond that should you volunteer. Plenty of OT to be made if ur willing, I made almost 11,000 in OT last year.

Hope this helps.
PM me for more info.

[KenoraPilot]

Right now is a good time for the Ramp at PAG. The list is short and its quick to get online. Better than when I started two years ago! Perimeter is a good company, even though I left man I made some awsome friends and life long ones I hope. Its more about the people than the company. Good all around though. Good place to start. If you work the ramp is cold in the winter and hot in the summer but at least Ramp pay is now a real wage instead of $8/hour when I started! Good luck

[AV8OR]

Thanks for the info guys!

Captain Crunch, what's a "bunch of time"?

[Captain Crunch]

Bunch - depends on the day of the week it seems. We hired some people with 1500 hours of single engine time, a few with upwards of 5000 with some turbine PIC time, most usually spend close to a year in the right seat or more, just like those that come from the ramp with no time. Probably because the metro is a tricky airplane to fly, and we operate it in tougher conditions.

[joe to go]

The Metro is not a tricky airplane to fly!!

[flying4dollars]

Bunch - depends on the day of the week it seems. We hired some people with 1500 hours of single engine time, a few with upwards of 5000 with some turbine PIC time, most usually spend close to a year in the right seat or more, just like those that come from the ramp with no time. Probably because the metro is a tricky airplane to fly, and we operate it in tougher conditions.

Tougher conditions?

You mean mountain free prairie flying?

[Captain Crunch]

No I mean operating a plane designed to take 12 Texans from Austin to San Antonio in and out of 3000 foot strips with 12 "Texans."
Thats where it gets a little tricky...

[giligan]

.

[Captain Crunch]

Well Gil,

When it's 30 degrees outside, I would much rather be taking a Dash in and out of YST then a Metro 3, and especially a Metro 2 (although I have yet to have the pleasure). Can't comment on the 1900, but I believe it has a bit more power then (or is it than) the Metro 3, and its elevator probably provides more lift then a Metro 2 wing. I'm sure if you asked people what they would like to fly in Northern MB if they had the choice, the Metro 2 would come after the Dash 8, 1900, PC-12, Twin Otter, and maybe even the King Air fleet. If the metro isn't "tricky" to fly, how come all these outside hires take a year to get promoted to left seat? Maybe all their PC 12 and King Air time doesn't mean as much as you'd think when you get in a Metro.

CC

['effin hippie]

Can someone tell me who in f*** with 5000 hours is going r/s on a Metro in this industry?

For a year???

Jeesus

[just curious]

A Metro by itself is just another aircraft. Landing a Twin Otter on a Yak's back a 1/2 mile from the North pole is no easy feat either (not that I would know) but I would not go so far as to say the Twin Otter is a "tricky" aircraft to fly.

Gil, there are no Yaks at the pole. And no, it isn't hard to fly, thank God. But, if you're short, it can be a sonofabeech to climb in and out of.

[giligan]

.

[ditshisturber]

The Dash is a much more "tricky" plane to fly than a Metro. It has a minimum crew of 2 vs 1 in the Metro. It is an airliner, not a light twin turboprop. It is just alot more forgiving in the tough Canadian environment and handles better, is slower, pver built and lands shorter.

Well, if you are talking about the Metro III... you're half right. The III is well over 12.5 and requires 2 crew. True the II is considered to be a single pilot machine, but you would need the bells and whistles of an autopilot to make that point. Most folks run 2 crew in Metro IIs. Comparing a III to a II, I'll take a III hands down.

Now if you are talking about a Metro II, I will strongly disagree that the 8 is much more "tricky" to fly. The II can be a nasty aircraft to deal with with an engine out after V1. Even if you feather the affected engine, you MUST retract the gear while still in ground effect... or the plane won't have much of a chance of climbing away. Let's just say I wouldn't have a warm and fuzzy feeling if an engine cacked and I was loaded down to a 12.5 TOW and the weather was +30C in a tight strip. She's a very sensitive and temperamental plane that likes to be flown "by the numbers" and she's not a forgiving machine (know your S/E climb speeds for your T/O weight). It's a true hands-on airplane at all phases of flight (especially for those folks that hand fly these machines without the benefit of an autopilot) and will train you to have one hell of an instrument scan. You'll be constantly trimming this bird out and over the drone of 2 (usually out of sync) Garretts and the manditory "BEEP, BEEP, BEEP" of the trim sonalert. The III has several design refinements and handling is a lot more subdued than a II. I don't hate the Metro, I sure never loved it, but I most certainly respected it.

I think "It is just alot more forgiving in the tough Canadian environment and handles better, is slower, pver built and lands shorter." would make the Dash a "better" plane, rather than a tricky plane to fly.

[JWJ]

Attn Captian Crunch. I'm a CPL Multi IFR. I am wondering the avg wait time on the ramp for flight line. the avg wait time for a determined hard worker?

[ScudRunner]

Attn Captian Crunch. I'm a CPL Multi IFR. I am wondering the avg wait time on the ramp for flight line. the avg wait time for a determined hard worker?

2 years +
For a Determined hard worker.

First you have to go please your supervisor, then once this happens after you slog bags for probably 3 winters and attending ground school's (on your own time) your then interviewed for the flying position wich you should know everything about the plane. Then you get a simulator evaluation, and if after all that your still around you get to fly a metro into some of the most thought prevoking places in Canada.

Good luck

[KenoraPilot]

have to please your supervisor eh....well at least im not there anymore to make life difficult for the newbies. Make the best friends in the world at Perimeter but ya honestly about 1.5-2 years FOR SURE! Cold in the winter, freaken hot in the summer but best fun i've had.

[pa31guy]

What is the pay like for FO's and how fast do upgrades come if you have over 1400 hours. Also is there any kinda travel pass deal and what kinda health benifits are there.

[200Above]

What type of flying do the 99's fly? Cargo?

[Doc]

A guy with "upwards of 5000 hours and some turbine PIC spend a year in the right seat...." Yah, sure....on WHAT planet?? The Metro is oh so "tricky".....Okay, when did they change the flying habits of the Metro" "Great place to ramp"......Maybe for YOU! You spent 30K of mommy and daddy's money....so you could RAMP???? People, have some pride here....

[KenoraPilot]

I have pride! I didn't spend mommy and daddy's money, I spent my own money and I kept my pride by doing my time on the ramp and enjoying it the best I could. Made the best friends possible and didn't sell out by going out and buying a PPC. This industry sucks, its hard enough to get in...why not do what most people do if they arn't lucky and enjoy it the best you can. They are finally paying well for Rampies $14/hour and it is fun, somedays...

[Doc]

And after making 14$ an hour as a rampie for two years. They're still a rampie. And, they still have 200 hours! Am I missing something. I think not.

[Rudder Bug]

And after making 14$ an hour as a rampie for two years. They're still a rampie. And, they still have 200 hours! Am I missing something. I think not.

Nope Doc, you're not missing anything. Some of them paid 35 k to be used as rampies for a season and jumped to another rampie position somewhere else, one year older, and over and over again. And they're still a rampie. And, they still have 200 hours!

Where's the pitfall? Where's the line?

[KenoraPilot]

How did you guys get your first jobs? How does it work when most companies in the industry won't hire 200 hours pilots? Would it be better if pilots took jobs as bus boys, retail workers? or should they get jobs in the industry and possibly get a chance to fly? Whats better? If you know of places that will give all the 200hour pilots in Canada a job let me know. Whats better....work for min wage in the mall or $14/hour for a company that will let you fly a Metro after you put in some time? If im missing and option please let me know....im all ears!

[Doc]

If they'll "let you fly a Metro after you put in some time..." why won't they hire you off the street to fly a Metro? Because, after you have "put in some time..." you still have 200 hours. What on earth would make you a better pilot? If anything, you're not as good as you were before you "put in some time...." because now, you're not as current. And a year out of the cockpit when you have only 200 hours, is a lifetime!