Jazz Jazz Jazz !!

[captainbeech]

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[teacher]

The sched at Jazz improves pretty fast in YYZ and YUL. Money not so much. I know several people who chose Jazz for the lifestyle. I'm not there yet but I believe the money gets more livable after year 2. Things should improve in 2009 but by how much is anyones guess. You can't beat Jazz for the sched though, especially if you have kids.

[twinpratts]

8 year Fo makes $48K...

All the 3rd year guys that I spoke to at WJ did 95-115K, last year on their T4's.


"You can't beat Jazz for the sched though, especially if you have kids."
Unless you're commuting to YYZ...
Actually WJ gives you 15 Guarenteed off/month... that's 36 days /yr MORE at home than the other guys.

[Maxxed out]

Actually after 2 years you make $49.50 an hour, which is more like $49000 a year, Good benefits, good pension. You are guaranteed 12 days off a month with a pretty flexible schedule (depends on what you bid) but from the beginning I got at least 14 days off a month. When I left after 2 years I was working about 13-14 days a month. So the lifestyle is pretty good. If you can take a money hit for a few years it is a great place with great people.

These are more accurate numbers, hope it helps. Jazz probably has the best contract (work rules) out there. Also makes lifestyle a little better.

[Tim Tam]

8 year Fo makes $48K...

All the 3rd year guys that I spoke to at WJ did 95-115K, last year on their T4's.


"You can't beat Jazz for the sched though, especially if you have kids."
Unless you're commuting to YYZ...
Actually WJ gives you 15 Guarenteed off/month... that's 36 days /yr MORE at home than the other guys.

He was asking about Jazz......

I am very pro WS, but c'mon, ALL of the 3rd year guys made at least 95K??? Guess again.

You should tell him to go to AC, at least there in his second year he could make 115K if he wanted to (EMB Cappy).

Don't forget the huge number of people who commute to YYC because the port system at WS is not working out so well for some. Oh, and then we get to DH to start/end trips, with no credit for doing so....

Go to Jazz, be happy. Enjoy life outside of work..

[Valcore]

All 3rd year WJ fo's make over 100g's on their T4's. Thats a fact. Sorry.

[like2fly]

captainbeech

Check your PM's

[Canoehead]

Ok here's my question.... i know that first & second year doesn't pay what it should .... How is Jazz for a longterm career ? I'm pushing 38 in a few months and have two children and a wife ?

Serious replies only please !!!

Does your wife work? If she makes good money at her own career, then yes, Jazz would be good for you considering the rapid movement (relatively) that would get you a decent sked.
If you are the 'bread-winner' at your house, then AC would be where I'd be shooting for. Maybe AC isn't in the cards for you though? It's not for me, and thank goodness my wife makes the kind of money that supports my 'flying hobby'

Me:
-Married w/3 young kids
-Age 33
-3rd year F/O Jazz
-15 Days off/month
-I get every day off I bid for
-I clear about $2500/month + avg. $700 for per diems
-Projected retirement age... nevermind, I don't wanna even think about it
-regrets: should have been a teacher

Good luck.

[bobcaygeon]

If you want the option to be home lots of evenings, Jazz can have that flexibility (single day pairings). In my last year flying there, I only overnighted 10 times in a year. Depending on base and a/c ,this may or may not be the norm but in most cases it is an option.


Some other carriers don't offer much other than 5 day pairings. I've liked/done long pairings for years but having the option was important for me.

[Dark Helmet]

8 year Fo makes $48K...

All the 3rd year guys that I spoke to at WJ did 95-115K, last year on their T4's.


"You can't beat Jazz for the sched though, especially if you have kids."
Unless you're commuting to YYZ...
Actually WJ gives you 15 Guarenteed off/month... that's 36 days /yr MORE at home than the other guys.

Dude you sure like hi-jacking our threads don't ya........All well its all good, Just thank your lucky stars you are not Tony.

All 3rd year WJ fo's make over 100g's on their T4's. Thats a fact. Sorry.

Thanks Valcore, Good to know, BTW I though you worked at Sunwing, I am curious how you know what every FO at WJ makes?


Captain Beech.

Most of the stuff said above is pretty true.

Pay at Jazz for an FO is not great. 3rd year would put you @ 49K (50K after July 1st). then it goes up about $1000-$1500 a year after that, eventually topping out at around 63K after 14 years (if you stay FO that long)

Keep in mind that there are quite a bit of deductions from your paycheque, (union dues, benefits, etc.)

Perdiems are pretty good, say 500-700 a month. Obviously all depends on the type of flying you do, multi day pairings pays more.

Upgrades right now 7 years


Sched wise. You will have 12 days a month guaranteed (except when you have training outside the block, then it is down to 10 days, only happens twice a year if you are unlucky)

You will start of on reserve. That may be a crapshoot on how much you fly. Nice thing is that your are on call for 12hrs and not 24hrs, meaning that if you don't get called you can have the evening off (or mourning depending on your reserve shift)

When you can hold a block, you can bid on 1-4 day pairings, expect to work about 15 days a month and be away for 10 nights. Thats seems to be fairly consistent with almost everyone, but there are variations.

Days can be are anywhere between 5 to 13 hours, Most are around 8 to 10.

Weekends, Holidays....all seniority.

Is Jazz a career airline?.......Depends who you talk to, some like and think so, others don't. It is what you make of it, everyone is different.

Hope the info helps, feel free to PM me if you want more info.

Good luck with your decision

Take Care

DH

[piggy]

Go to Westjet if you can. In the in term you could work at jazz. Going to jazz will kill your opportunities at AC. The best gig without a doubt is Westjet in Canada rgt now. The only movement at jazz you wil see will be from attrition as growth is very limited due to scope. The pay at jazz in the rgt seat is disgusting. You will be a captain at westjet probably in the same time it takes at jazz, but better pay and schedule, and way better moral-which makes a huge difference.
There are risks to joining AC rgt now as they have hired a large # of pilots and are exposed to the US recession more so than westjet. It is possible that you are hired at AC and very little movements occurs after you to make a difference in your schedule which will suck big time. Jazz is also heavily exposed to transborder business pax but they are cheap to operate so less risk there, just scope which will always be pushed as far as it can. The wages at jazz will be OK in the left seat but not rgt-the wages will stay in line with us regionals so dont expect a lot in pay at jazz.
westjet would appear to have plans to be basicly equal footing with AC domestically , so should i dare say "canadian airlines again" but in a better design???????????????

[piggy]

One other point. If you do go to jazz for the long term , you will be top reserve capt in YYz or YUL when your 50 yrs old which is not a bad gig. 12 guarteed days off a month and if you pass on a lot of flying you will make 100000 in todays dollars. forget about living out west in the left seat.

[Valcore]

Thanks Valcore, Good to know, BTW I though you worked at Sunwing, I am curious how you know what every FO at WJ makes?


I have 5 ex-coworkers that have been working at WestJet for between 4 and 7 years. I know how much they make by what they tell my their T4's were on the 3rd year with all options and ESP and whatever else is included. Why would they lie about it. Hope that's satisfactory.

[rudder]

The pay at jazz in the rgt seat is disgusting.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=110478

[bcflyer]

8 year Fo makes $48K...

Thats odd, I'm on 7th yr F/O pay and my T-4 says $57k. (and I didn't do a single day of O/T)

[bcflyer]

Why can't we just compare straight pay? Hourly rate times the number of hours you got paid for. Period. If you want to keep including stock options etc then you have to give credit for what the pension is worth at Jazz and add that to everyones T-4.

[Valcore]

Year 3 no stock en shite. $86,200.

[vortac]

Thats odd, I'm on 7th yr F/O pay and my T-4 says $57k. (and I didn't do a single day of O/T)

OMG thats appalling

If I was a 1st-2nd yr FO and just read that, I'd go jump off something really tall.

[Stinky]

What's wrong with $57K a year for an easy job you like, great travel benefits, pension and health benefits. Better than most people in this country.
First year pay for me was $42k because of O/T.

I'm also sick of hearing about Westjets T4 slips. What do put in the bank every week, I can't pay my bills with a T4 slip. As far as stock options go, investing in an airline is stupid. Those stock options are worthless.

[73NG]

What's wrong with $57K a year for an easy job you like, great travel benefits, pension and health benefits. Better than most people in this country.
First year pay for me was $42k because of O/T.

I'm also sick of hearing about Westjets T4 slips. What do put in the bank every week, I can't pay my bills with a T4 slip. As far as stock options go, investing in an airline is stupid. Those stock options are worthless.

Worthless eh? How do you think WJ millionaires were made. Worthless.....hardly. Is it smart to put all your eggs in one basket? no. Is wj better than Jazz? You bet your bloody ass.

Just know what your talking about before you make a stupid comment that stocks are worthless. MKAY?

[yhzav8r]

I think most will agree that Jazz will offer a great lifestyle with a relatively small paycheck. The biggest drawback I believe is the lack of career progression and generally poor company morale. Another large consideration is the fact that the long term future of Jazz flying is in doubt. They only have one customer - Air Canada. Once ACE is wound up, there will be no ownership ties between the two companies. In my opinion this will create a large downward pressure on wages/working conditions going forward for Jazz employees. I believe that the first rate adjustment/negotiation will come in in 2009 based on a formula of relative cost at some U.S. regionals. A very scary thing to keep in mind is that the current scope clauses in the Jazz collective agreement will have not merit in the future as Jazz and Air Canada become completely separate companies. One can argue how probable, but I think it is possible in the next 10 years that current turboprop flying at Jazz will go down to the tier 3 carriers. If this happens, I believe it will be many more than 7 years for an upgrade. I don't know what other opportunities you have, but I would give them serious consideration. If you go to Jazz it will give you a guaranteed interview at Air Canada and will improve your chances at WestJet.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

[Brize]

Thats odd, I'm on 7th yr F/O pay and my T-4 says $57k. (and I didn't do a single day of O/T)

That's scary for someone to be earning after 3 yrs of flight trainig & costs of $50+ K, ramp/instructor sacrifices, and probably 10 YEARS (3 yrs 703/704 + 7 yrs Jazz F/O) of commercial flying after completing a COM/MIFR! But hey.. you're a prestigious airline pilot. Thats worth something right?

I think most will agree that Jazz will offer a great lifestyle with a relatively small paycheck. The biggest drawback I believe is the lack of career progression and generally poor company morale. Another large consideration is the fact that the long term future of Jazz flying is in doubt. They only have one customer - Air Canada. Once ACE is wound up, there will be no ownership ties between the two companies. In my opinion this will create a large downward pressure on wages/working conditions going forward for Jazz employees. I believe that the first rate adjustment/negotiation will come in in 2009 based on a formula of relative cost at some U.S. regionals. A very scary thing to keep in mind is that the current scope clauses in the Jazz collective agreement will have not merit in the future as Jazz and Air Canada become completely separate companies. One can argue how probable, but I think it is possible in the next 10 years that current turboprop flying at Jazz will go down to the tier 3 carriers. If this happens, I believe it will be many more than 7 years for an upgrade. I don't know what other opportunities you have, but I would give them serious consideration. If you go to Jazz it will give you a guaranteed interview at Air Canada and will improve your chances at WestJet.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

Well written. I agree it is quite probable that this may gradually happen.

[jjj]

Edited

[FICU]

Geez... nice way to represent your company!

Maybe take advantage of the private message feature next time.

[Stinky]

I knew I would get a reaction with my post, it was even better than I expected.