Jazz Jazz Jazz !!

[jjj]

FICU,

when someone comes out fighting - they will get a fight from me.

As far as how I represent my company - I will staunchly defend it and I can back up any statement I make on this forum. I will also never sling mud at any other airline - easy to do now that JetsGo doesn't exist.

If somebody says something really stupid - If I feel like typing - I will call them on it. If I fall for a troll every now and again - oh well. I'm not wasting time here - the trolls are.

The PM feature did not occur to me - so I have since edited my previous post.

Stinky - check your PMs.


Later.

jjj

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

can't pay my bills with a T4 slip. As far as stock options go, investing in an airline is stupid. Those stock options are worthless.

I beg to differ, I paid off my line of credit, my mom's line of credit, my truck, my car and my house, all with options. They were big ole bills.
My next set will pay my child support until my oldest boy is 19, as well as earn me interest along the way.

[Stinky]

I beg to differ, I paid off my line of credit, my mom's line of credit, my truck, my car and my house, all with options. They were big ole bills.
My next set will pay my child support until my oldest boy is 19, as well as earn me interest along the way.

I don't know anything about Westjets pay or stock options. I was just stirring up sh*t, but I'm genuinely curious about what you did.
Did you actually get the cash or use it as security for a loan? I find Westjets whole pay structure pretty mysterious, what do people actually make and when can you convert your stock options to cash. Don't you get dinged with a huge tax bill when you cash out?

[73NG]

Class is in!

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

There are lots of guys more versed in the subject and far more eloquent than I , but I will try to explain via example.
Every two years, the company grants pilots stock options. Options are just that...options to buy stock, normally at less than market value. How many options you are granted depends on a couple of things, whether you are capt. or F/O, how long you've been with WJ and how many options you chose. One can chose the entire grant , as in 100%, 50% or 25%. If you chose less than 100%, the difference is made up in cash. The fewer options you take, the higher your salary, or vice versa.
Back to the options, after accepting the stock option grant, you must wait two years for the options to vest. Fancy word for "wait". After the two years is up you can then buy Wj stock at the price you were given two years ago and then resell immediately , or at your leisure. You have two years to cash in, or exercise your options.
So...this May, I have the option to buy 9729 WJ shares at $11.82. If the shares hit $22.10 (bless me father, for I have sinned) I will realize a capital gain of $100,000. As it is a capital gain, 50% of it is tax free and the other half is taxed at (i think)the lowest marginal rate. Yes it is cash. it is depoited into your bank after the online transaction takes place.
This program is separate from the ESP and Profit share, which alone was $20,000 for a 4 year Captain in 2007.
I hope this clarifys things a little.

[wallypilot]

As it is a capital gain, 50% of it is tax free and the other half is taxed at (i think)the lowest marginal rate. Yes it is cash.

It's taxed at whatever your marginal tax rate is...so that would be whatever bracket you find yourself in with your salary....most likely it would be the highest bracket. However, when only 50% is taxable, and the highest tax bracket is around 40 something percent, that means the effective tax rate on the whole 100K is about 20%.

[twinpratts]

Anybody want to comment on how much a 5year pilot (Capt) would have seen on his/her last semi annual profit sharing cheque?

[EPR]

Lol......... "Bless me Father,for I have sinned" ....that's too funny!

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

Twin pratts;
$9000, take home.

[bcflyer]

Can someone please tell me why people on this forum insist on comparing the salaries at Jazz with those at Westjet? Lets see..... LARGEST aircraft at Jazz, 75 seats. SMALLEST aircraft at Westjet, 119 seats. If you aren't making considerably more at Westjet, something is seriously wrong. If you want to compare apples and apples lets look at a 3rd yr Airbus F/O at A/C. I think you'll find the dollar figures are much closer.....

[tonysoprano]

bcflyer.
You are using common sense. They won't understand your theory. It's quite simple actually. You see, some Jazzers who have gone to WJet feel the need to compare, almost everyday, to belittle those who stayed behind and to showoff what they are now making. It is there hope that others will follow their footsteps. Remember AmWay?

[Stinky]

Remember AmWay?

That's awesome! I was thinking about Amway after reading this thread too.

[BigB]

Remember AmWay?

Actually, I would venture a guess and say ALPA's and ACPA's seniority based pyramidal system is more akin to AmWay, than WJs'. Nice try with the comparison though Tony.

[tonysoprano]

.....Naaa. I'm not gettin' into it.

[. .]

How much money would you need to put into the back to retire with a draw of over 130k/yr? Certainly 1,000,000 won't do. More likely somewhere around 3 million would be realistic if you wanted to live to over 80 and continue with your current lifestyle. All this talk of westjet millionaires is funny. You NEED to be a millionaire to retire and not take a massive hit in lifestyle. Heck you need to me a multi-millionaire to retire and not take a hit. So that said, all those $100,000 stock options need to vest and be put into the bank to have a shot at a nice retirement. So with those stock options going into a bank that you can't touch, you may be making $200k or more, but if you're not able to spend it, your lifestyle would be far different from someone who was making $200k that had a pension.

Is AC's pension 100% bulletproof? No, but it's also protected by far different laws than the American pensions that vanished after 2001. My understanding is that the top op pension is the only one that could be lost at AC. Even with the top up gone there is still enough to live without worrying about buying groceries.

-Break Break-

Back to the Jazz thing. Jazz does have a pension, and great lifestyle. The lifestyle elements in their contract are better than any other company out there. Their commuter policy is out of this world. The reserve rules at Jazz are also excellent. ALPA has definitely earned their paycheck deductions. The money isn't bad in the left seat, with the guys they're hiring now in their early 20's they'll be captain making 100K before they turn 30. That's not exactly all doom in gloom to me. It cracks me up that everyone on here is crapping on 50-60k/yr. Most engineers or other university grads aren't making that. Yes they didn't move up north to Pickle Lake, and slave away as an instructor. They did rack up about the same debt though, and an engineer certainly tacked much much harder schooling to graduate.

A poster said earlier that Jazz sewered your chances with AC. That is untrue and has absolutely no factual basis. The PFO rate from Jazz vs off the street is within 4% of eachother. It's not an easy process no matter where you come from. Gone are the days when 90% of the regional pilots got the job. Perhaps that's where the misconception comes from?

[Stinky]

ALPA has definitely earned their paycheck deductions.

I was always anti-union until I started with Jazz. I like working at Jazz but wouldn't trust them to treat me well without the backing of ALPA.
ALPA is another huge benefit of working for Jazz.

[KAG]

bcflyer.
You are using common sense. They won't understand your theory. It's quite simple actually. You see, some Jazzers who have gone to WJet feel the need to compare, almost everyday, to belittle those who stayed behind and to showoff what they are now making. It is there hope that others will follow their footsteps. Remember AmWay?

Tony, why would we knock our friends, drinking buddies, room mates just because we switched teams? I'll leave that to the senior AC/Jazz pilots, or the CDN/AC pilots, you get my point .
But if someone asks, I will type about how great this job is. As for "Amway" That was funny. Incorrect, but funny.

[TopperHarley]

endless,

How dare you invoke reason and logic into an avcanada thread, especially one about Jazz.

[tonysoprano]

KAG.
I never called it "knocking" but it does come close. I don't think that's your intent. I hope not. Perhaps only you guys can answer your question. The point I'm making is that often, and you can research this easily if you want, you can find ex Jazz WJ pilots (yourself included) trying to tell Jazz pilots how good you have it even when the thread topic is strictly about Jazz. Sometimes it's called for but most times it's not. I believe it's a form of trolling but more than that I think it's a way of you guys showing off or maybe just trying to justify your career decision, I don't know. I do know that most Jazz pilots who read that stuff find it very unattractive. It's easy to do I know, I do the same myself sometimes. When Jazz pilots want to inquire about WJ, they usually go on the WJ site and show interest. That, I don't have a problem with. Sorry about the Amway thing. There's only a slight resemblance.

[whipline]

Jazz (the way I see it)

Pros - great training
- good equipment
- good schedule with good rules
- great travel benifits

Neutral - Pension. Its not indexed therefore not worth much
- benefits. Great but you have to pay a lot for them

Cons - Very low pay
- always at the "merci" of Air Canada

So the question is "can you find all the pros while at the same time make more money?"

[73NG]

Answer.....Westjet.

[Tim Tam]

Answer.....Westjet.

You are a real tool.......

Westjet is far from perfect.

No company is perfect, it is what YOU make out of it. Some guys need to make their own minds up and stay the course with their decision. Westjet is not for everyone.

[. .]

Answer.....Westjet.

That's real rich man. You think the WJ contract is even 1/2 of what jazz has?

Those red eyes are gonna be super fun when you're 63 and you used all your points to try and get a block of days off in the summer.
WJ's travel benefits can't even be compared to what the star alliance has. Outside of the star alliance Jazz has zed fares with pretty much every major player out there.


As it was mentioned earlier, if the WJ fan boys want to talk about the pros of WJ, do it in your forum when people come asking about "why westjet?". You certainly don't see Transat, SkyService, Sunwing, guys in here talking about why they left jazz.

I'm just getting tired of seeing Jazz dragged through the mud here. It's talked about in the same light as some talk about skyward or other crummy companies. It couldn't be further from the truth.

[ozguy]

I can tell you honestly, that Jazz is the most enjoyable job I have ever had. The money at first is not the best, but it is not great at Air Canada or Westjet. The people at Jazz are exceptional, you are treated fairly from the day you interview. The training process was superb, I never paid a dime for anything.

I am on the CRJ and it is far better then flying some 30 year old beech 200 or 1900. I have had some tough decisions to make lately; Cathay has come knocking and so has the middle east. However, ultimately I have decided to choose my lifestyle of living in Vancouver and enjoying my good sked and my damn good pass privelages. I have one month off at the moment, for Vacation and the way i was able to work my schedule. It is really the easiest job i have ever had.

I look forward to going to work, I definately never did with my last job. I guess it depends what stage in life you are at. I dont have kids and alot of expense, so I can spend my money on things I want. If you have a wife and 3 kids I could see how times might be tough. However, it doesnt matter whether your at AC, JAZZ, OR WESTJET, they are basically the same for the first few years.

Jazz is the Rodney Dangerfield of aviation, it gets "no respect". Im glad I decided to come here. I think people who bash it publicly on this forum will find reasons to be unhappy in any circumstance.

[The Hammer]

Answer.....Westjet.

Yep, that's why they have lunch bag/ coolers with the Westjet logo on it!!! Who wouldn't want to have to pack their lunch for 5 days at work in a row. Doesn't the PB & J get a little dry after day #3. Maybe day 4 + 5 are canned tuna/salmon day.

What kind of company (aviation or not) expects their top employees to brown bag it???

PS Teach your back end to respect the front end a little more("Get it yourself" ) and it would almost be perfect. And lose the "I'm writing you up" game too.

Maybe those WardAir gals respect/service will rub off on the "Bratz"