"This is an extremely safe and reliable weapon," said Greg Alter of the Federal Air Marshal Service. "It's not going to discharge on its own, is the bottom line."
Just how the hell do you explain this one to management!??!
For the bullet to have travelled like that the pilot had to have been holding the pistol. Now the question is... WHY was he holding the pistol? It'll be neat to find out what the audio tapes have to say.
small penguin wrote:For the bullet to have travelled like that the pilot had to have been holding the pistol. Now the question is... WHY was he holding the pistol? It'll be neat to find out what the audio tapes have to say.
Anyone else picturing an Eastwood impersonation on the CVR? What do you do if your Captain accidentally shoots himself mid flight?
cpl_atc wrote:
Hijackings foiled by asking me if I packed my own bags - 0
This one predates 9/11 by several years.
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no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
Guns just don't belong on an airplane. It's a stupid policy in my opinion. It's a good thing it was pointed where it was. It's probably the one direction you can fire a gun on that airplane where it has almost no potential to hurt anyone.
Fraid I disagree, Under at least two circumstances.
1. Plainclothes "air marshals". Canada's got em, USA's got em, and for sure Israel's got em. These people are very well trained and equipped. As far as I know, there have been zero sucessful hijackings with an air marshal on board.
The shot was fired as the plane was at 8,000 feet on approach to Charlotte, North Carolina. The bullet penetrated the fuselage, but did not damage any crucial instruments or wiring, according to the Transportation Security Administration.
Rockie wrote:Hijackings foiled by armed pilots - 0
Accidental shots fired in cockpit - 1
Don't forget to add to that list of useless and/or unnecessary "security enhancements" since 9/11:
Hijackings foiled by reinforced doors - probably 0
Hijackings foiled by banning carry-on toothpaste and contact lens solution - probably 0
Hijackings foiled by asking me if I packed my own bags - 0
Hijackings foiled by inspecting everyone's shoes at the airport - 0
Hijackings foiled by taking away my coffee at security - 0
Greenpeace activists who can climb on top of a parked aircraft at one of the world's busiest airports and unfurl a banner - 1
Billions of dollars spent making us feel warm and fuzzy
Back to the Mexican 15 year old. Sad, but if some dumbass waves a gun at me and I have my own, I will not ask him to prove that it really works, is a fake, isn't loaded, or is a toy. Mine will be real, loaded, and not a toy. Sometimes there's no need or time to be politically correct. I have the feeling that when a pilot somewhere foils a takeover and happens to use his gun to take one life and save 300, many on this form would pity the foiled and dead highjacker. Why, because your anti gun beliefs are stronger than your justice beliefs. Now that is truly sad. To some on here anyone with a gun is just a redneck, frustrated, antisocial, backward, conservative. Go tell that to an eighty year old war vet who put it on the line for real.
That makes a lot of sense if you're filming a hollywood movie or living in Bagdad, but operating passenger jets in the real world requires a little more thought and refinement as this clown in the 320 just demonstrated. And what does the eighty year old war vet who put it on the line for real have to do with this issue?
That eighty year old war vet put his life on the line so that you can enjoy freedom as you know it and that should certainly include travelling without all this bullshit we now deal with. If you want to give ground to bullies, punks, fanatics, and coddle those that do not contribute to society then fill your boots. You are just a pawn and easily expendible to them. They care nothing of your warm and fuzzy feelings. I am all for negotiating but when someone shows up to negotiate with a gun, goodwill flys out the window. I don't care what the intent is, I see a gun which makes him/her a bully or a punk, or a fanatic, and I will not coddle.
There's no mystery here at all about how this all happened. Anyone who has ever served in any army or police force can tell you of occasions where peers have accidentally discharged their weapons. I've served in both and can relate my own alsso. It's also been proven in court many, many times that unless you know all hand-held weapons very well, there is no such thing as a "Safety" position and don't trust any of them with your life or someone else's.
There's no mystery here at all about how this all happened. Anyone who has ever served in any army or police force can tell you of occasions where peers have accidentally discharged their weapons. I've served in both and can relate my own alsso. It's also been proven in court many, many times that unless you know all hand-held weapons very well, there is no such thing as a "Safety" position and don't trust any of them with your life or someone else's.
For those who don't like or care for loaded weapons being carried on passenger-carrying a/c, then they should remember that if they have occasion to board an El Al flight somewhere in the world. ALL of their flights carry one or more security people onboard who ride that flight for only one reason and who are wearing loaded handguns. They also have had the lowest incidence of hi-jacks.
They've also had an occasion not that long ago to find a pilot DUI on an American airliner's flight deck before T/O. I think it'll be a very long time before one hears of that occurring again also. If you're looking for 100% of anything, then go and live on some other planet.
Armed security people in the back are one thing, but we're talking about armed pilots here. There's something called a bullet proof door between the passengers and the flight deck that is supposed to keep out the bad guys and, you guessed it, bullets. That's a really good thing because the cockpit is where all the electronics, controls, and people who know how to fly the machine are located, and bullets fired up there can wreck everyone's day. A gun in the cockpit presents nothing but a hazard because in the first place it might be fired accidentally ( I know, what are the odds?), and in the second place anybody could rush the flight deck when the door is open and knock the pilot over the head before he has a chance to whip out his gun and rasp "go ahead...make my day". In that case all you've done is pre-positioned the hijacker's weapon for him. How handy is that?
This is not about how tough or ruthless you will be if confronted with an armed assailant. This is about mitigating threats on board an aircraft which requires brains, not testosterone.
"Inadequate handgun rules designed by Department of Homeland Security officials are to blame for last weekend's accidental discharge of a pistol by a commercial pilot during landing preparations, a pilots association said yesterday".
Typical. Of course the presence of a gun up there in the first place had nothing to do with it.
That last article explains a lot. Whats the point of having a gun in flight if the damn thing needs to be played with twice per flight at least just to install and remove a trigger guard. The article says it best, if you have to let the pilot play around with the damn gun while flying the plane, its only a matter of time before one of those guns goes off.
Im really surprised that these pilots have to lock their triggers before and after a flight. Simply having safety on and holstered like any cop carrying would (IMO) be enough. Either that or have the gun mounted somewhere inside the cockpit where it would only be manipulated IF it were needed. That way there wont be such a thing as accidental discharge.
