How much money will I make instructing?

[1000 HP]

I made $14 per hour instructing in 1989. About 5 years later, I went back to the same school to rent a plane, and the poor bastards were only making $11 per hour. And those rates were only for flying hours. If I came in and there was no flying, then I got nothing. The Kraft Diner was only for the Class 3 and up guys. I ate superstore brand...

[Hoov]

The worst part is, I truly believe the labour code protects them. However without the support of your peers, it seems like walking out on your own is like swimming with sharks. People at the school need to agree not to work for such horrible wages, as a group it is much more effective to say no. One person is replaceable, a whole group takes time to replace.

[mark_]

Wow...thanks everyone, this thread has been a real eye opener. Even though the only reason I would do it is for the love of flying, makes it REAL hard tp leave my guaranteed 60k that I enjoy now.

Like I said, hats off to all of you who teach because you love to teach and endure those truly pitiful wages.

Mark

[oldncold]

SOME GOOD POINTS ergo my 2 pennies worth .
at your age it would be better to get the cpl multi ifr then float
HAVE A VERY LONG AND PRODUCTIVE TALK WITH THE SPOUSE.

a) SAVE A FEW $$ WHILE YOU CAN
b) go on a spring road trip with your fresh muti ifr float in your hand or make this a summer trip with the family 3+ weeks.
it may be the only vaction you get for a while.

c) visit all the employers in the out of the way hot spots
let ' em know you have a family and would move for a long term position. your maturity could work for you in this situation.

d) target companies that have both single and twin engine so that you can start pic building.

e) be polite and direct in what you need as fair compenstation.
40 k is not realistic right out of the gate. but 30+ is per year.
most small operators can see thru bs 100 miles away Why cuz some operator did the same to them starting out. if possible bring the wife by the operator women sometimes have a better gut instinct of who is going to shaft you -not clouded by hours in the logbook. the good employers will appreciate and respect in the north that they have a potential stable long term employee which are harder to keep in the north.

F) DO NOT SELL THE HOUSE IN CALGARY THIS WILL BE YOUR
NEST EGG RENT IT LEASE IT BUT DO NOT SELL WHILE YOU ARE
A PILOT . THEN IT AGE 60 you can go get an instrutor rating
teach new cpl from the prospective of having accomplished
something with several thousands hours of flying. you will be a much better instructor. and will not have to worry about
putting food on the table. best of luck .


finally you will land that first job if you are persistant and will not have to instruct if you go to the hinterlands and your kids will see life outside of the shopping malls and box stores and triple plexx movies theaters. there is a canada out there.

[C206Pilot]

i made just over $20 Grand last summer in 6 months. made a ton of friends, logged a lot of time and had a lot of fun. go to the schools paying $30 / hour for Class IV's. i was at one of those schools. don't waste your time with the other places not willing to cough it up. things are changing for instructors. i have a turbine job now, but i lived a very comfortable summer at that pay rate. i always had money in my pocket.

[SkyWolfe]

You had money in your pocket making 20G? Wow, you should teach classes on how to use your money wisely. I found 25k hardly livable. (and that wasn't instructing).

Wolfie

[Wacko]

.... for 6 months of work though....? that's not that bad... depending on where you live

[SkyWolfe]

.... for 6 months of work though....? that's not that bad... depending on where you live

Yeah... True on that bud... But hopefully you have work somewhere else for another 6 months... Ive heard of people making a few hundred a month because the weather and such just crapped out... And pulling two jobs to pay rent sounds unpleasent to say the least... But hey, if you get another gig right after its great!

Wolfie

[MichaelP]

Instructing has been such a well paid and highly respected profession that it is easy for me to find instructors

Unfortunately, Canada does not pay instructors well, Canadian aviation companies often do not treat their employees well, in my experience organisations such as ATAC do not have any respect for instructors either, and even COPA has no interest in making the lives of those who put private pilots through their training happier.

I am determined to pay good instructors well.
I would resist any attempt to align this company with ATAC.

Until the slave bondage Canadian aviation expects of its employees is removed, Canadian aviation can only expect to spiral deeper into the dirt.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Unfortunately, Canada does not pay instructors well, Canadian aviation companies often do not treat their employees well, in my experience organisations such as ATAC do not have any respect for instructors either, and even COPA has no interest in making the lives of those who put private pilots through their training happier.

Having owned a flight school Michael I agree with you 100% ATAC is just another insestious club of good old boys with no other agenda except being self serving....and they are real tight with the head of TC's flight instruction bosses in Ottawa.

COPA is really not interested in the plight of flight instructors or the school owners.

What is needed is for the individuals in flight instruction to start a think tank and come up with ways to improve the industry.

Maybe you and I could start a new thread with that objective in mind?

[Lurch]

Well Cat/Michael lets have some suggestions

It should be so simple

Raise instructor rates, this in turn raises the instructors pay, right?

Wrong, why? Because there is always somebody wanting your business, so what do they do? They drop their rates and customers will be willing to go there, because what do you get for your extra money? Nothing the same 250-hour wonder so why pay more. Do you think the average student knows that with experience/pay it will cost them less in the end, of course not.

Next problem where are the experienced pilots?

Well that is also easy, they are at the airlines. Well when their duty flight times are so low why aren't they at their local flight school teaching? Also another easy answer, pay/rating. Why should an airline captain put in a hard days work for $20/hour being supervised by a 1500-hour instructor?

So what is the answer?

Is it increase pay?
This will just promote more "kids" becoming instructors and this would add to the diminish of instruction quality due to instructors not caring and just time building

Increase the ease of "experienced" pilots getting a rating?
Imagine the hourly rate for this one and availability

Increase minimum hours required to get a rating?
All ready a problem getting instructors try getting a 1000-hour pilot to quit his job to go back and spend $7000 to fly 172s again

Unfortunately there is no easy answer. We need to change the entire industry as a whole and how it is regulated, and Cat we all know how easy this is.

Lurch

[TheRedPages]

I was an instructor during a slower time in the industry, But even as a class III , I did ok, Here is my breakdown.

I only have a year and a half to go by, Year 1 was tight, Had it been a fiscal year, I would have pulled in $20 300 based on doubling 5 months 16 days, realistically, with a week off, I could have likely made $22 000. Year 2, an entire year I made $27 130, Keep in mind I was a vey junior instructor just beginning IFR instruction.

I think your earning potential depends on your attitude, I went to work at least 5 days a week, even when the weather was bad, especially in the summer. Remamber, The students may come on the good days, But the management and administartors work every week day, Who are they going to ask to teach or do extra work on a rainy day? the instructor that is there doing logbooks, Studying, Calling students, arranging groundschool lessons. If it was a good weather week, I would count on 6 and 1/2 days, On average I worked about 25 days a month or more, Definately a sacrafice, But I was home every night and choose my days off.

I'm sure had I instructed another year I would have made well over 30K, I think the trick to this is go to a good school that pays all duty well, I made almost flying rate while teaching groundschool, That was 24 dollars/hour provided I made the 60 hour quota per month, I never missed it. If you want to be an instructor and contribute to aviation professionally, please do it, Full time and whole heartedly, If you do it part time, Stick to hobbyists annd weekend flyers, this will be more suited to your level of skill, Something i believe is directly related to how much you fly and are immersed in aviation. weekend instructors, despite their total time, Just don't seem to be as good on average. (this is an opinion based on experience so I don't want anyone to PM me on this one.)

If you want to make a living instructing, You can do it, The key I would imnagine is work for a first rate flight school and do your research before you apply for the job.

Good Luck

[Dash-Ate]

To the original poster??

[C206Pilot]

Yah Wolfie, that was in 6 months I made that. And I took off a fair amount of time on top of that. The first couple months I was killing myself, but the last 4 months were a breeze.

One thing about instructing that not a lot of people point out, is you make your own schedule. Where I worked it was completely up to you. You could take any day off that you wanted, set-up your schedule to come in after 9 or 10 if you wanted, do anything you wanted. I thought it was great. I was home for every holiday, booked days off to go do fun things with my friends. And technically, I was making more than a first year F/O at Jazz. My pay cheques were between $1300 - $1700 every two weeks AFTER deductions. I repeat, I was getting those figures in my bank account.

I was lucky and got onto a turbine job right as the bad wx was approaching and kept right on truckin through the winter in an IFR environment.

I got into instructing when things were changing greatly for the better. And they should remain that way. I had a blast and would do it again in a second if I had to go back. It was a lot of fun for me. I worked at a large school where business was plentiful and never-ending, plus I think I was going on an avg of 4 - 6 hours of sleep every night from partying so much after work.

That was my experience, not everyones is the same of course.

[MichaelP]

At one of the Transport Canada Instructor seminars I attended Pierre told us how much he earned as a flying instructor in the late 70's early 80's in Quebec. He earned good money.
The pay rates then were the same as they are now, he said he was being paid something like $25 an hour then!

Today I took off in the Dash 1 to go and fly an RV7A...
I arrived back here at 18:30 to find the place locked up while a new renter has gone flying in one of our aircraft.
Even while paying more than anyone else at Boundary Bay and offering better aeroplanes it is difficult to find good experienced people to work as instructors...
I am sure that when the state of the art glass twin arrives I'll have instructors applying by the dozen with their tongues hanging out, but that cherry is going to be reserved for the people who come now and do a good job for us during these early days.

There's a lot of movement in this business, it is hard to train and retain good people.
Perhaps flight training should be exported somewhere else as it was from Britain to the USA.
Maybe we can find good instructors in Australia?

Can you imagine what Canada could be with proper forward thinking, planning, and paying professionals what they are worth?

[SkyWolfe]

206: Makes sense. Most people don't seem to have the same positive experience you had... But heck, surely doesn't mean it can't happen!

Michael: Good on you. The people who stick around now are the ones worthy of upgrading. If they put in the effort of helping you, you can put the effort in to help them.