PIC time towards ATPL

[sanjet]

Missing 32 hours of PIC time before I can obtain my ATPL, that's after counting my PIC under supervision. Flying heavy aircraft now so I can't build actual PIC within my company. I really don't feel like paying a flying club for a single engine due to financial sanity. I heard you can log up to 50 hours of glider time towards your ATPL. Anyone ever go that path? Was the savings really worth it after getting trained on the glider compared to renting a single engine at a flying club? Also seems like a great experience to try. Any other options?

[niko]

No, not worth it. I'd used a Parker pen and it's far cheaper!

[KAFUFO]

How can you miss 32 hours after your commercial licence requirements the only thing you need is 25 night pic, all the other reqirments can be completed as a co-joe?

[The Wizard of OZ]

You can use 25 hours of ultralight time towards a higher lic.. Then fly 7 hrs in a 150 or a home built airplane.

[Dave T]

How can you miss 32 hours after your commercial licence requirements the only thing you need is 25 night pic, all the other reqirments can be completed as a co-joe?

Negative. For the CPL you need 100 PIC. For the ATPL you need 250 PIC a difference of 150 hrs. You can count up to 100 hrs as PIC under supervision and that can include the night cross country.
So someone with the bare minimium will need to find another way to build the 50 hrs.

[Adam Oke]

I heard you can log up to 50 hours of glider time towards your ATPL. Anyone ever go that path?

50 Hours may be used towards the total time requirement. Not PIC.

[sanjet]

Thks for the replies guys/gals.

50 Hours may be used towards the total time requirement. Not PIC.

I just reread the rule:

(a) 250 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes which shall include where applicable, a maximum of 100 hours pilot-in-command under supervision flight time completed in accordance with Section 421.11.

A glider/ultralight could be considered an aeroplane (fixed wing). I will call transport to make sure before i burn my cash if I go this method...

[Hedley]

A glider/ultralight could be considered an aeroplane (fixed wing).

Er, no. Click on:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... bpart1.htm

"category" - means

(a) when used in reference to flight crew licensing, the classification of aircraft as an aeroplane, a balloon, a glider, a gyroplane, a helicopter or an ultra-light aeroplane,

Aeroplane, glider, ultralight, helicopter are all
different categories of aircraft. Each
different category of aircraft has it's own
flight crew licences and/or permits.

Capeesh?

[sanjet]

<sigh> Allright, that breaks the deal pretty much.

Thanks! Time to do some 4 hour holding patterns above the airport in a 152 I guess!

[Hedley]

Time to do some 4 hour holding patterns above the airport in a 152 I guess!

Hold on a sec, it's not that bad.

You're getting screwed by the paperwork. Time to
start playing by the paperwork rules.

From:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... bpart1.htm

"flight time" - means the time from the moment an aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight;

Rather than drone around uselessly, wearing out
an airplane, here's my suggestion:

Find an outfit that will rent you time on a C150
based on TACH time, not HOBBS time (critical).
Dry rental would be best, because you're not
going to burn much gas, either.

Taxi out in your C150 at the start of the day,
position on the runway, full power. As soon
as it's off the ground one inch, power to idle
and land again. Should easily be able to do
this within 3000 feet (no weird runway required).

Lean the mixture. Taxi to a deserted part
of the airport, put the parking brake on, put
your feet up, and read a book for 8 hours
with the engine ticking over. At the end of
the 8 hours, taxi back to the hangar and
shut down.

By the CARs definition, you can log 8 hours
of "flight time" without uselessly wearing
out the engine, or burning hardly any gas.

You're welcome

[200hr Wonder]

Orrr find a private owner that will sell you a 32 hour block cheap. Heck he might even want someone to come on a trip or something fun. I would say you could easily do it for less than $3200 if you find the right owner. You should be no problem with insurance with your TT.

[Bank Angle]

Does no one know how to read the CARs!? Look under the standards for ATPL - Aeroplane Requirements (421.34 found at http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#421_34). Under section 6 it states the following credits may be used towards the ATPL:

(6) Credits - Experience

(a) Glider

Where an applicant holds a Pilot Licence - Glider, a maximum of 50 hours flight time in gliders shall be credited towards the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.

(b) Three Axis Ultra-light Aeroplanes

Where an applicant holds a Pilot Permit - Ultra-light Aeroplane, a Recreational Pilot Permit – Aeroplane, a Private Pilot Licence – Aeroplane or a Commercial Pilot Licence – Aeroplane, a maximum of 50 hours flight time in three axis ultra-light aeroplanes shall be credited towards the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.
(amended 2005/06/01; previous version)

Personally I don't think it is worse getting a gliders license for it, unless you already have one, as it is very time consuming and hard to build time quickly unless you are really good. However, your current license already allows you to fly ultralights! So find one that is reasonably like a conventional airplane (not a powered deltawing or something like that), get a check out, and I'm sure you'll find the rental rate cheaper.

And remember, have fun while you're at it. It may be the last time you get to fly somewhere where you want to go, instead of where somebody else tells you to go.

[shitdisturber]

Time to do some 4 hour holding patterns above the airport in a 152 I guess!

Hold on a sec, it's not that bad.

You're getting screwed by the paperwork. Time to
start playing by the paperwork rules.

From:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... bpart1.htm

"flight time" - means the time from the moment an aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight;

Rather than drone around uselessly, wearing out
an airplane, here's my suggestion:

Find an outfit that will rent you time on a C150
based on TACH time, not HOBBS time (critical).
Dry rental would be best, because you're not
going to burn much gas, either.

Taxi out in your C150 at the start of the day,
position on the runway, full power. As soon
as it's off the ground one inch, power to idle
and land again. Should easily be able to do
this within 3000 feet (no weird runway required).

Lean the mixture. Taxi to a deserted part
of the airport, put the parking brake on, put
your feet up, and read a book for 8 hours
with the engine ticking over. At the end of
the 8 hours, taxi back to the hangar and
shut down.

By the CARs definition, you can log 8 hours
of "flight time" without uselessly wearing
out the engine, or burning hardly any gas.

You're welcome

He's going to put his feet up in a 150 how exactly?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

He's going to put his feet up in a 150 how exactly?

It is quite simple, you just take the seats out and put an air mattress on the floor and relax for eight hours.

The seats come out in a few seconds..

[The Hammer]

bank angle

Your quotes say glider/ ultralight hrs credited toward the 1500 hr flight time requirement not the 250 pic requirement which is the issue stated. You can have 10,000 hrs, if you don't got 250 PIC it don't matter, no ATPL

IMHO

[KAFUFO]

That's perfect alot of time on type and youcan never be/ask for an upgrade your an operators dream. Good on you that you've found your niech

[RVR6000]

Does the dual received during flight training count as half for the 1500 TT, or its just F/O time that’s half.

[Bank Angle]

Thank you The Hammer, I stand corrected: The glider/ultralight experience credit does NOT apply towards the PIC requirements, which has to be in aeroplanes, but only counts towards the total 1500 requirements. Sorry Sanjet, but it looks like you'll have to take that nap in a 152, or take my earlier suggestion and make the most out of flying anywhere you want to go.

To answer the new question, dual counts fully towards the ATPL. I only had 1525 hours when I got mine signed off and more than 25 hours of that was dual. The only reason I did not get it signed off 25 hours earlier is because of some flight time that I could not get certified easily.

[Adam Oke]

The only reason I did not get it signed off 25 hours earlier is because of some flight time that I could not get certified easily.

I thought your signature at the bottom of the page was sufficient ... below where it states: "ALL TIMES AND ENTRIES ON THIS PAGE ARE CERTIFIED CORRECT."

What did TC require you to get certified by someone else?

[Bank Angle]

Normally people get their log book times certified by their flight schools and employers when they leave. Either the CFI or Chief Pilot will normally do it. I certified lots of log books when I was working as CFI. I'm not sure if it is a hard requirement by TC, but they do like it because it makes it a little less likely that people "parker pen" their flight times.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I'm not sure if it is a hard requirement by TC, but they do like it because it makes it a little less likely that people "parker pen" their flight times.

I don't think it would prevent anyone from adding a few hours here and there. I don't see any CFI or Chief Pilot taking the time to check every single hour you've flown. They just sign it as a way of saying "Ya he flew with us"....not sure how much it's worth.

[seniorpumpkin]

Actually my CFI took my book overnight, went through it with a fine toothed comb, and found a couple of addition mistakes. It was good because as it turns out I was short about .3 of an hour PIC for my commercial license which could have been a problem, plus after the correction I gained an extra 1.2 or something of dual. I don't know how many CFI's would do that, but this guy was busy and made a point of doing it with everyone.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Well you got lucky, I'm not sure they all are that thorough!

To go back to the orginal post why don't you rent a C172 for sightseeing and take some of your friends up asking them to share the cost. That would make the flight hour very cheap. Now you probably won't be able to do 32 hours like that but even if you do 5 or 10 it's already that much you won't have to fully spend.

Just my 2 cents