406MHz ELTs

[valvelifter]

Just got my ASL and there is a letter stating that ELTs on 121.5MHz are to be replaced by ELTs on 406MHz by next February 2009. I was just thinking that I always check 121.5 after landing to make sure the ELT on my aircraft was not activated. How will this be possible with 406 ELTs? The NSS website also says the new ELTs are to have a 50 second grace period in case it is inadvertently turned on. Something else I read that was interesting was that since the aircraft ident is encoded in the signal, the emergency beacon owner should expect a phone call shortly after to confirm if it is a false alarm.

[Taxi Driver]

All of the 406 elt also transmit on 121.5 as far as I know

[small penguin]

Yup, 406s will transmit on 121.5 also, so that you can check them on your radio, and so other overflying/nearby aircraft can pick up the signal. After all, if it was just 406... the system would be utterly useless. But I could see transport then requiring us to upgrade our radios

[just curious]

Doubt it. Anyway, searching for people with a vhf homer with only the vaguest idea of where they are is a pain in the ass. Get the new ELT, stop wasting searcher's time.

[small penguin]

Get the new ELT, stop wasting searcher's time.

I really wish it was that easy....

My ELT is due in June. The local avionics/ELT shop here cant even give me a straight answer as to cost, model type, etc for a 406, despite having asked several times, nor can they give advice as to whether I should jump on a 406 in June, or wait until February. I cant seem to find much information as to exact available (and legal) models, nor costs to install.

If I get a 406 in June, and the situation on the 406 changes, may I'll have wasted 3000 bucks for nothing. Or next to nothing. If the situation doesnt change, and I wait until Feb 09, will there be enough ELTs or enough shops? Will the prices be reasonable?

[CID]

Get the new ELT, stop wasting searcher's time.

I say just avoid crashing in the first place or at least file accurate flight plans.

[Hedley]

When it comes to new technology, it's not exactly
a secret that early adopters always pay more and
generally get less. They're the guinea pigs.

Do you like using V1.0 software?

[small penguin]

Agreed clunk. Personally I dislike the 406. Its a 3000+ dollar piece of yellow equipment thats no more guaranteed to keep me alive than the current little box behind the cabin. All it'll do is make SAR find the corps(es) faster.

If DND/TC want to put the 406 primarily to reduce their costs, then they should defray some of the costs to us private owners.

Hedley, agreed completely. When the new dual core processors came out, I bought one within a week because I wanted to toy around with it. I didnt mind the R&D costs I'd be paying. I felt AMD did a good job and deserved my support. That said, the chip cost me 450 bucks. Less than two years later, that same chip was selling for about 60.

My concern though, is that if I wait until close to deadline, either I wont be able to purchase a 406, or I wont be able to find a shop to install it. Im not going to let TC ground my aircraft for some piss poor planning on their part. I'd prefer to stay legal though..

[SAR_YQQ]

Guys,

SAR is a little more wide-ranging that just Canada - if you truly believe that the 406 beacon is a TC/DND venture - you are mistaken.

Might I suggest some reading material.

406MHz ELTs are here and they are not going away - the Maritime community has been using them for quite some time - it is only through legislation that we are going to get our massive fleet of aircraft converted over. Come next year, your 121.5/243 ELTs won't trigger an alert.

Privatization of SAR is a whole new idea - worthy of a new topic - it has its pros and cons.

[CID]

Come next year, your 121.5/243 ELTs won't trigger an alert - so you might as well just pull the batteries.

Easy there sport. Bad (and wrong) advice.

[Hawker]

Yup, 406s will transmit on 121.5 also, so that you can check them on your radio, and so other overflying/nearby aircraft can pick up the signal. After all, if it was just 406... the system would be utterly useless. But I could see transport then requiring us to upgrade our radios

Not sure I'm completely understanding this as this is the quote from the message
"On February 1st 2009, Cospas-Sarsat satellites will no longer hear distress signals from your 121.5 MHz emergency locator transmitters (ELTs). Cospas-Sarsat satellites will only recognize 406 MHz ELT signals."

The current system uses 121.5/243 MHz. So just a guess would this be a 203/406 MHz? which would mean we couldn't monitor it?

[small penguin]

Current ELTs may fall to deaf ears as far as satellites go, but Im willing to bet aircraft currently monitoring 121.5 will still be doing so past Feb09. If 121.5 was ditched entirely, Im sure TC/DND would force us all to get new radios. They're not that dumb.

Hawker - no. The new 406 ELTs transmit on both 406 and 121.5

The 406 signal is (AFAIK) ONLY for the satellites, whereas the 121.5 signal is for nearby aircraft and VHF radios.

[Hawker]

I can understand if we still use 121.5 for emergencys to tower or aircraft.
I guess I'm just not understanding the logic of how the 406 ELT would transmit on 121.5
My so called logic...
current system 121.5/243 MHz
243/2 = 121.5 MHz

406/2 = 203 MHz
I could be way out to lunch...without doing any research this is what comes to mind.

[small penguin]

lol its ok. As far as I know, the only reason for the 243/2=121.5 thing is simply... easier to remember.

Im not an electronics/radio expert, but given the large gap in frequency between 406Mhz and 121.5Mhz, I'd imagine two separate transmitters. One to do the 406Mhz wave, and the other to do 121.5Mhz. And Im sure that it would also transmit on 243Mhz just so DND and others listening on it wont become useless.

Someone correct me if Im wrong.

[SAR_YQQ]

Quoted directly from that reading material I mentioned earlier:

These beacons transmit a 5 Watt RF burst of approximately 0.5 seconds duration every 50 seconds. The carrier frequency is very stable and is phase-modulated with a digital message. Frequency stability ensures accurate location, while the high peak power increases the probability of detection. The low duty cycle provides a multiple-access capability for a large number of beacons simultaneously operating in view of a polar orbiting satellite, and low mean power consumption.

An important feature of 406 MHz emergency beacons is the digitally encoded message, which can provide information such as the country of beacon registration and the identification of the vessel or aircraft in distress, and optionally, position data from onboard navigation equipment.

An auxiliary transmitter (homing transmitter) is usually included in the 406 MHz beacon to enable suitably-equipped SAR forces to home on the distress beacon.

AFAIK - the homing frequency will be 121.5MHz - DND aircraft can home and locate VHF and UHF - so no big deal there.

[CID]

With the older standard, the frequencies weren't chosen so that the ELT would automatically transmit a second harmonic (twice 121.5). As a matter of fact its's kind of difficult to do. It's just a matter of broadcasting more than one frequency on the same antenna no matter what the arithmetic relationship. That's actually not all that difficult to do.

[Hedley]

Another tax

[tiny]

as for cost Aviall is promoting one for $900 which puts it a little more within reach

[tonyhunt]

TC refuses to certify the new Lithium batts {FAA and all others do} so the cost in Canada will be very high,the new batts do not explode as did the old ones which were of course mandated by TC!

There is an update on this issue on the TC website: http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/certification/elt.htm

... lithium battery technology has significantly improved in the last two decades and the FAA has issued TSO C-142 and TSO C-142a standards. TCCA has determined that batteries that are meeting the TSO C-142 standard or later revisions would have an acceptable level of safety. As a result Transport Canada has issued Alternate Means of Compliance (AMOC) – AARDG 2008/A13 to AD CF-81-29R2 – Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELT)

As of 04 April 08 there is also a new, longer list of compliant ELTs at that same TC site. The US dealers will have lots because US pilots won't have to install them by February 09.

I'm still not happy to be forced to upgrade on a TC deadline but the 406 ELT prices and availability might be better than I expected a month ago.

[small penguin]

I thought the 406 had to be purchased in Canada to be coded for Canada. Wouldnt US sellers have coded theirs for US?

[_dwj_]

as for cost Aviall is promoting one for $900 which puts it a little more within reach

Plus installation, which will be around $1500 (remember, you aren't allowed to install it yourself).

[small penguin]

Even your AME cant install it! Which means avionics shops will be backlogged.

[bipolar]

Exemption for private a/c is about a week old M1 or M2 can sign out install.
Bought an Artex unit 1200 bucks ,thought I would beat the rush
Regards
bipolar

[Dominic220]

If DND/TC want to put the 406 primarily to reduce their costs, then they should defray some of the costs to us private owners.

--

So... more airport usage taxes then? Just like Nav Can (Or was it TC?) being sued for 95,000... once again, they'll defray / subsidize their cost... to the end user. Hurray for more fees for less service! ><!

[just curious]

Sorry Dom,
Sattellites age. This isn't a case of the CF trying to save money, since our part of the new sat bill isn't free.

This is a question of saving time trying to find someone on the ground in less time.

I don't know how people plan and equip their aircraft for a bad day down south. But I have seen a surprising number of private owners come up north who simply had made no preparation for any sort of emergency. I'm not talking about a falling out of the sky type of crash, but simply, a battery failure on start, have to stay an extra day sort of thing.

If you dress for the worst case scenario, and carry a survival kit for cross-countries, and are just scratching to come up with new cash for an ELT, then I feel your pain. I still have one of the 30 year old lithium ELTs somewhere around.

But, the old ones aren't gonna do you a damn bit of good, so...