Previously flown out of YYJ, VFC, great school can't say enough good about them. Will now be flying out of CZBB, and looking between Pacific Flying Club & Sea Land Air.
Sea Land Air =
Brand new shiny Diamond aircraft.
Relatively Small Fleet.
No IFR offered at this time.
School is new so who knows what will happen.
Pacific FC =
Old dependable Cessna's.
Large fleet, should be easier to get time.
Been around forever, stable.
Thinking with my head, I think PFC would be a better choice, but still have to think about those brand new Diamond aircraft. Any thoughts on a decision?
TS
CZBB which school.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: CZBB which school.
I would try Sea Land Air as I think Michael P would offer a good learning environment.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: CZBB which school.
I've not been in the industry long enough to actually meet and encounter business with MichaelP (an avcanada poster and the owner of SLA) but I've been in touch with him and he appears to be a very professional lad who understands what he's doing.
One thing to be observant about at PFC. It's a great school with fantastic people and all; however, most of their instructors if I am not mistaken are 64 week BCIT Grad's. Basically these dudes came out of high school, knew nothing about flying, and are now after 64 weeks plus a 6 week instructor course the instructors teaching you how to fly. Don't get me wrong,I know some very fine pilots coming out of the BCIT program who are now very successful in their careers; but it is a consideration to make when you decide where to spend your load chunk of money now that it won't be at VFC.
One thing to be observant about at PFC. It's a great school with fantastic people and all; however, most of their instructors if I am not mistaken are 64 week BCIT Grad's. Basically these dudes came out of high school, knew nothing about flying, and are now after 64 weeks plus a 6 week instructor course the instructors teaching you how to fly. Don't get me wrong,I know some very fine pilots coming out of the BCIT program who are now very successful in their careers; but it is a consideration to make when you decide where to spend your load chunk of money now that it won't be at VFC.
Re: CZBB which school.
Blimey, I don't own it! I've been flying a long time in Canada, where would I get the money?
Yes, we have a small fleet... and there are two things to be done:
1. Getting the MCM approved such that we can have more aeroplanes.
Our PRM has done an excellent job with this document and it now awaits TC approval.
2. Finding more 'quality' instructors to fly these aeroplanes...
I am in Thailand for the next two weeks! Sorry R&R is required now before the arrival of our DA40-180 with the G1000, and of our Diamond DA42 FTD from Germany.
We are fortunate with the sim (FTD) as there are some excellent line pilots ready to pass on their skills in the real world to those wishing to do glass cockpit training. You can even do an IR renewal in our level 5 FTD. (ETA May, operational June?).
As CFI it is my responsibility to ensure the training given is to an acceptable standard.
As an aircraft structures inspector I asked for a much higher standard than the tolerances allowed...
If you ask for a higher standard you always get something that may be a level lower than that standard.
Ask for an acceptable standard, and you get an unacceptable one many times...
So I have to work to raise pilot training to a higher standard.
A high standard means the aeroplanes we have will survive longer and have lower maintenance costs.
If the aeroplanes survive, so do the people who fly them.
I need this break.
Working too many hours means my efficiency, mood, and effectiveness has decreased. I step aside a moment, regain my energy, reset my thoughts, and then I can rejoin the battle effectively.
Yes, we have a small fleet... and there are two things to be done:
1. Getting the MCM approved such that we can have more aeroplanes.
Our PRM has done an excellent job with this document and it now awaits TC approval.
2. Finding more 'quality' instructors to fly these aeroplanes...
I am in Thailand for the next two weeks! Sorry R&R is required now before the arrival of our DA40-180 with the G1000, and of our Diamond DA42 FTD from Germany.
We are fortunate with the sim (FTD) as there are some excellent line pilots ready to pass on their skills in the real world to those wishing to do glass cockpit training. You can even do an IR renewal in our level 5 FTD. (ETA May, operational June?).
As CFI it is my responsibility to ensure the training given is to an acceptable standard.
As an aircraft structures inspector I asked for a much higher standard than the tolerances allowed...
If you ask for a higher standard you always get something that may be a level lower than that standard.
Ask for an acceptable standard, and you get an unacceptable one many times...
So I have to work to raise pilot training to a higher standard.
A high standard means the aeroplanes we have will survive longer and have lower maintenance costs.
If the aeroplanes survive, so do the people who fly them.
I need this break.
Working too many hours means my efficiency, mood, and effectiveness has decreased. I step aside a moment, regain my energy, reset my thoughts, and then I can rejoin the battle effectively.
Last edited by MichaelP on Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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quicksilver
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Re: CZBB which school.
You're mistaken. Some of them are. Some instructors have been there for over 3 years too! Which, in this day, is a lot. For you to make that comment is a BOLD and inaccurate generalization.most of their instructors if I am not mistaken are 64 week BCIT Grad's
There are a lot of other schools at CZBB, go to all of them, meet with someone at each one. Train at the one that feeds you the least amount of BS and where you get the best vibe. Each school will have there own pro's and con's. Good luck, the weather is getting nice so start flying.
Last edited by quicksilver on Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: CZBB which school.
I know most of the staff at PFC, and yes, just like most schools there are some experienced guys as well. Majority is ruled by the BCIT program and considering I think I know who you are, you know that as well..
It doesn't mean they're bad instructors as I also mentioned. If i said "all of their instructors..." then that's a Bold Statement.
It doesn't mean they're bad instructors as I also mentioned. If i said "all of their instructors..." then that's a Bold Statement.
Re: CZBB which school.
I actually agree with that statement.There are a lot of other schools at CZBB, go to all of them, meet with someone at each one.
We are all individuals and we have the right to choose.
I have watched students too and fro between Pro and PFC, and even with Montair. CFC carries on in its quiet way and seems to have the least animosity with the others.
I've had students come from PFC and CFC to fly the Diamonds, and taken one or two to Pro to fly the Citabria as well.
In my opinion there is enough business out there, perhaps too much for the limited number of skilled instructors, and we all need choice.
At Sea Land Air we are doing something different, it's going to be great fun, but it's not for everybody...
I like jam on my bread, I'm not partial to peanut butter. Some people like both on their bread.
Likes and dislikes.
Be an individual and you have my respect.
Last edited by MichaelP on Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: CZBB which school.
You have a customer Michael - I like the Diamonds.
Read Pm
Read Pm
Re: CZBB which school.
As the ground school instructor at Sea Land Air, I also wanted to ad a couple of thoughts on your selection process of finding the right school to train at. It is absolutely a good idea to go door to door and speak to people at each school where you are thinking of training. Each school has something to offer you, and ultimately, you need to feel good that you are being served well as a student, and as a paying customer in a business.
As you mentioned in your post, Pacific Flying Club is a tested and true successful flight training club. They have obviously done a good job, or they would not be as popular as they are today. Pat Kennedy has done a great job leading PFC, and everyone should be so lucky to have such good leadership.
SLA is growing, and very soon we will have new planes, and a new simulator. The ability to train in a single engine trainer, then move up to a G1000 4 seater, then the twin engine simulator, and finally into the most modern twin engine plane available in general aviation, and all from the same manufacturer, is a very nice service we will be offering to our students and customers. We also have great leadership at SLA. From the backing and support of the schools very generous owner, to David Lai the president, and our CFI with many years of experience in many kinds of positions in aviation, we are all committed to providing a safe, rewarding, and positive experience.
And while it is true anyone from any school can say these things *(well, except the part about the cool new planes and DA42)... it really does come down to the feeling you have at the school, and how you feel with your instructor especially... if that specific relationship isn't good, you need to find one that is!!
best of luck, and stop in and say hi sometime.
Matt
As you mentioned in your post, Pacific Flying Club is a tested and true successful flight training club. They have obviously done a good job, or they would not be as popular as they are today. Pat Kennedy has done a great job leading PFC, and everyone should be so lucky to have such good leadership.
SLA is growing, and very soon we will have new planes, and a new simulator. The ability to train in a single engine trainer, then move up to a G1000 4 seater, then the twin engine simulator, and finally into the most modern twin engine plane available in general aviation, and all from the same manufacturer, is a very nice service we will be offering to our students and customers. We also have great leadership at SLA. From the backing and support of the schools very generous owner, to David Lai the president, and our CFI with many years of experience in many kinds of positions in aviation, we are all committed to providing a safe, rewarding, and positive experience.
And while it is true anyone from any school can say these things *(well, except the part about the cool new planes and DA42)... it really does come down to the feeling you have at the school, and how you feel with your instructor especially... if that specific relationship isn't good, you need to find one that is!!
best of luck, and stop in and say hi sometime.
Matt
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: CZBB which school.
M. Lang, I would like to help you guys set up a sea plane training division for your school...
....unfortunately it would be fatal for your company because TC would red flag you..big time.
....unfortunately it would be fatal for your company because TC would red flag you..big time.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: CZBB which school.
a couple guys I know are looking to spend some time in the da42, how soon will you have it and who will the instructor be?
will it be available for solo rental?
will it be available for solo rental?
Re: CZBB which school.
MichaelP is one of the rudest person I have ever encountered in my life. I was at ProIFR a few years ago getting checked out on one of their planes. While I was looking at the schedule book at the dispatch counter, MichaelP walked in to the office and just grabbed it away from me without saying a word. I asked the girls at the dispatch, "Who's this guy? What's wrong with him?" One of the instructors chimed in and said, "don't worry about him. He will be gone soon."E-Flyer wrote:I've not been in the industry long enough to actually meet and encounter business with MichaelP (an avcanada poster and the owner of SLA) but I've been in touch with him and he appears to be a very professional lad who understands what he's doing.
Swear to God, this is a true event.
John Montgomery and Mark Stierli at ProIFR are true gentlemen.
Re: CZBB which school.
The DA42... There's no time schedule for this aircraft; there are a couple of them on the market that are being looked at, and there is a certain momentum... It's arrival is inevitable, but the time of arrival is unknown.a couple guys I know are looking to spend some time in the da42, how soon will you have it and who will the instructor be?
Will it be available for solo rental?
As for solo rental, we will have to look at the insurance requirements which can be onerous in Canada...
My own opinion is that if you are competent to hold the rating and demonstrate competence in flying the aeroplane then you should be allowed to rent the aeroplane. But some decisions are not mine.
There are several experienced multi engine instructors who want to come online with us to fly this aeroplane.
I don't know about this, if it did occur it would be highly unusual for me. I tend not to be rude to anyone.MichaelP is one of the rudest person I have ever encountered in my life. I was at ProIFR a few years ago getting checked out on one of their planes. While I was looking at the schedule book at the dispatch counter, MichaelP walked in to the office and just grabbed it away from me without saying a word.
If I did that, you have my apology.
Re: CZBB which school.
Thanks .,
Thanks for the offer!!
That I know of, we have no plans to move onto the water with airplanes. The company, SEA Land Air is involved in fractional ownership of watercraft, but again, that I know of, that doesn`t include float planes.
Out of curiosity, why would TC red flag us???
As for the comments someone
else made about MichaelP being rude... I am more than surprised. Especially if you were looking at the ProIFR book... Michael did not instruct on the IFR side of the school, and would have not needed the book... never mind to say it is completely out of his character to do such a thing. I`ve known him for five years give or take, and have never seen anything short of professional behavior from him at all times!!! Thats non-negotiable 
And yes, you are right that Mark and John are gentlemen.
Matt
Thanks for the offer!!
That I know of, we have no plans to move onto the water with airplanes. The company, SEA Land Air is involved in fractional ownership of watercraft, but again, that I know of, that doesn`t include float planes.
Out of curiosity, why would TC red flag us???
As for the comments someone
else made about MichaelP being rude... I am more than surprised. Especially if you were looking at the ProIFR book... Michael did not instruct on the IFR side of the school, and would have not needed the book... never mind to say it is completely out of his character to do such a thing. I`ve known him for five years give or take, and have never seen anything short of professional behavior from him at all times!!! Thats non-negotiable And yes, you are right that Mark and John are gentlemen.Matt
Re: CZBB which school.
Actually we have looked at the floatplane in the future as with many other possibilities... I'd love to have a Legend Cub in the slough!
We are not limited if there's a good business reason for having something.
Niko was probably referring to the VFR booking sheet that Pro IFR's VFR division had a few years ago prior to the online booking system, and prior to the merging of the entities into the Professional Flight Centre.
Niko may well be correct, and if so it was a major lapse on my part... I make mistakes sometimes.
But you know I would never intentionally snatch anything out of anyone's hands in a rude manner.
Why am I on this computer, middle of a bright sunny day in Thailand?
I have a meeting with TC when I get back, and a questionaire to fill in... I had better know the CARS better than he does!
There's no rest for the wicked, or for a CFI!
We are not limited if there's a good business reason for having something.
Don't ask that question Matt, it has been answered many times by . on this forum.Out of curiosity, why would TC red flag us???
Niko was probably referring to the VFR booking sheet that Pro IFR's VFR division had a few years ago prior to the online booking system, and prior to the merging of the entities into the Professional Flight Centre.
Niko may well be correct, and if so it was a major lapse on my part... I make mistakes sometimes.
But you know I would never intentionally snatch anything out of anyone's hands in a rude manner.
Why am I on this computer, middle of a bright sunny day in Thailand?
I have a meeting with TC when I get back, and a questionaire to fill in... I had better know the CARS better than he does!
There's no rest for the wicked, or for a CFI!
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
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Re: CZBB which school.
Ask Jim Dunn.Out of curiosity, why would TC red flag us???
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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360montana
- Rank 1
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- Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:07 am
Re: CZBB which school.
My two bits,
I have done alot of training in southern BC and have found that CZBB has alot of good schools to choose from. I had recently moved to the Okanagan and made a point to come back to Pro for my Multi IFR. Power, Montgomery and Pezer were all a pleasure to work with and I accredit my first job to their training and kind words. (the recommend is everything in getting your first paying job) I would do it all the same again in a second. Thanks Guys!
One small bit of info... schools across the board should put a little more focus on correct terminalagy(sp) for a smoother transition into the world of IFR. It is one thing I found could be better with all schools... you really notice it once you move up into the FL's. Sound Pro and get treated like one.
I have done alot of training in southern BC and have found that CZBB has alot of good schools to choose from. I had recently moved to the Okanagan and made a point to come back to Pro for my Multi IFR. Power, Montgomery and Pezer were all a pleasure to work with and I accredit my first job to their training and kind words. (the recommend is everything in getting your first paying job) I would do it all the same again in a second. Thanks Guys!
One small bit of info... schools across the board should put a little more focus on correct terminalagy(sp) for a smoother transition into the world of IFR. It is one thing I found could be better with all schools... you really notice it once you move up into the FL's. Sound Pro and get treated like one.
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canpilot
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Re: CZBB which school.
What type of training are you doing??
From personal experience:
You have to find a school that " clicks with you."
I've flown with Michael P and I've never been soaked for cash and I learned a ton from the guy just by sitting and grabbing a bowl of soup with him. Too bad I couldn't finish my tail dragger with him...
CFC seems good so far as well. The one thing that could potentially kill you at ZBB is the huge turnover and the overall demand for training, both local and foreign. On the turnover..I've seen instructors do a year and then go off to the airlines.
.:
Its really too bad TC chooses to "black ball" people like yourself. Its almost like they (TC) enjoy turning away experience and quality instructors at an airport the needs it BADLY. Real professionals need not apply LOL.
From personal experience:
You have to find a school that " clicks with you."
I've flown with Michael P and I've never been soaked for cash and I learned a ton from the guy just by sitting and grabbing a bowl of soup with him. Too bad I couldn't finish my tail dragger with him...
CFC seems good so far as well. The one thing that could potentially kill you at ZBB is the huge turnover and the overall demand for training, both local and foreign. On the turnover..I've seen instructors do a year and then go off to the airlines.
.:
Its really too bad TC chooses to "black ball" people like yourself. Its almost like they (TC) enjoy turning away experience and quality instructors at an airport the needs it BADLY. Real professionals need not apply LOL.
Re: CZBB which school.
TC likes turning anything away... it's what they do. 
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: CZBB which school.
I was blackballed by TC because I proved beyond doubt that their top management are thugs who have no respect for the rule of law.....:
Its really too bad TC chooses to "black ball" people like yourself. Its almost like they (TC) enjoy turning away experience and quality instructors at an airport the needs it BADLY. Real professionals need not apply LOL.
They have the power to ruin anyone they choose because they are unaccountable...even to the rule of law because they think they are the law.
But not to worry I wouldn't piss down their throats if their guts were on fire.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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canpilot
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- Location: Richmond B.C. Canada
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Re: CZBB which school.
.,
Thats really too bad..the industry has lost a MAJOR asset
Thats really too bad..the industry has lost a MAJOR asset
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Chuck Ellsworth
- Rank 11
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Re: CZBB which school.
Not really I'm not finished yet.
Thats really too bad..the industry has lost a MAJOR asset
I can instruct without a FTU or an instructors rating although with some limitations.
And TC knows I can not be intimidated and they finally have learned I do not fear them in the least.
The industry needs me as a sort of reality check when it comes to dealing with the thugs in Transport.
The fact that TC can not do anything about my exposing their underbelly speaks volumes about the reality of what they really are.
Thugs.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: CZBB which school.
Michael,MichaelP wrote:Don't ask that question Matt, it has been answered many times by . on this forum.Out of curiosity, why would TC red flag us???
Niko was probably referring to the VFR booking sheet that Pro IFR's VFR division had a few years ago prior to the online booking system, and prior to the merging of the entities into the Professional Flight Centre.
If someone offers me something to discuss, I don't see why I cannot ask him a question. He does not know my knowledge lever, nor I his. He is free to offer his opinions or ask questions on this public forum, as are you or anyone else.... except me I guess. If you wish me to not ask that question, let me know and I can give you my private email address. (?????????)
As for "niko"... I don't think he might be right about your conduct. If you accidently did something, that is different than doing something which is RUDE... there is a difference in conotation as well as denotation.... and he is wrong on both counts. Credit where credit is due, but, in Niko's case, he is simply wrong to describe you as rude... anyone who knows you knows you are a gentleman.
