You better read this quick before your mommy finds out you are out of bed endless.
I am not hard done by. I have never applied. Frankly, I could give a shit about the hiring practises at mainline. I just wanted to set the record straight for SS because he was sounding so down being an off the streeter and all. I just wanted to share some of the facts that those guys from Jazz have had to put up with just trying to get on with mainline. He was whinning that they had all the advantages and I thought he might want to hear how the so-called advantages are greatly outweighed by the BS that AC and Jazz have cooked up with regards to hiring.
But hey, you are the smart guy here. You knew all that stuff right? You had all the facts before you jumped in here right? You knew about the contract the Jazz guys had to sign with AC to hold their seniority while they were forced to stay at Jazz? You must have because it would have been the exact same one as the guys from GGN or CMA had to sign while they were frozen for 2 years.
Now, if you are done humping my leg, is there any other advantage you would like to discuss about the Jazz route to AC?
Jazz to AC
Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog
Re: Jazz to AC
Please check your pm's... Thanks.Brick Head wrote:My guess is the alarm already went off.
Flt Ops said last fall they would try to clean up the back log of
Jazz pilots being held back at Jazz under the LOU by this spring.
Since the last class is tomorrow. Anyone out there with a job offer from AC, under the terms of LOU 18, but not yet at AC?
Re: Jazz to AC
After a second look at the wording here I don't see anything that says a frozen pilot would be removed from the ACPA seniority list if Jazz is sold. As Brick Head mentioned this was written when the connectors were all seperate companies. The way I read this is that if Air Canada had sold one of the 5 conncectors, the pilots on that seniortity list wouldn't be eligible for LOU 18 since they would no longer be on the Air Canada CONNECTOR Airline seniority list. I don't see anything that refers to the Air Canada seniority list...Brick Head wrote:Below are excerpts from LOU 18.
You must remember this was written in 1995 when AC owned 5 separate connector airlines. I
It is hereby agreed that the opportunity of orderly advancement onto the Air Canada Pilots’ System Seniority List shall be made available to all pilots employed by Air Canada Connector Airlines in accordance with the following provisions
Pilots in L18.01 above will be offered position vacancies in order of seniority from the Combined Seniority List of Air Canada Connector Airlines. This list will be compiled subject to the Labour Laws of Canada.
L18.07 If there is a total sale or divestiture of any Air Canada Connector Airline, then the pilots of that carrier will be removed from the Combined Seniority List of Air Canada Connector Airlines, subject to the Laws of Canada.
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Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
Re: Jazz to AC
BCflyer,
That is exactly how I read the LOU. If you were offered employment while the LOU was in effect, in this case prior to Jazz being sold, the terms of the LOU apply.
Apologies for my wording.
What I should have said was the end is nearing for new job offers under the terms of the LOU.
Another point I didn't make on this sensitive subject which I should have. If you are Jazz pilot, that gets offered employment post sale, the worst that will happen is you get a job offer that is not under the terms of the LOU.
Depending on your view point, which is very diverse as you can see, that may in fact be better.
No freeze.
No pension hit from the freeze.
You can reapply in 6 months like everyone else
You avoid what amounts to two years extra probation
You know where you will be based within a reasonable time frame rather than putting your life on hold for 2 years.
It will cost you a couple of bucks though.
That is exactly how I read the LOU. If you were offered employment while the LOU was in effect, in this case prior to Jazz being sold, the terms of the LOU apply.
Apologies for my wording.
What I should have said was the end is nearing for new job offers under the terms of the LOU.
Another point I didn't make on this sensitive subject which I should have. If you are Jazz pilot, that gets offered employment post sale, the worst that will happen is you get a job offer that is not under the terms of the LOU.
Depending on your view point, which is very diverse as you can see, that may in fact be better.
No freeze.
No pension hit from the freeze.
You can reapply in 6 months like everyone else
You avoid what amounts to two years extra probation
You know where you will be based within a reasonable time frame rather than putting your life on hold for 2 years.
It will cost you a couple of bucks though.
Re: Jazz to AC
yes and get less paid for more work i.e AC was operating RJ at a max of 12 hrs duty time a day instead of 13h30 or so often but that is our management (jazz) choice
Re: Jazz to AC
I hope LOU18 bites the dust soon.
Anyone at Jazz that was there before AC started hiring back in the summer of '05 has had their shot at coming over. Anyone who joined Jazz after that did so with the knowledge that they may or may not be kiboshing their chance at AC, but did it anyway. Even still, a lot of those people (Jazz hires post-summer '05) have also had their chance. So everyone's had a shot now let's get rid of the clause and just hire the best candidates out there.
Anyone at Jazz that was there before AC started hiring back in the summer of '05 has had their shot at coming over. Anyone who joined Jazz after that did so with the knowledge that they may or may not be kiboshing their chance at AC, but did it anyway. Even still, a lot of those people (Jazz hires post-summer '05) have also had their chance. So everyone's had a shot now let's get rid of the clause and just hire the best candidates out there.
Re: Jazz to AC
I would have to agree with the above post. I hear so many of the new hires, of which have 1000-1500 hours bragging about how they're going to end up at AC in a year, and how if that doesn't work out, WestJet. I think you all should know that just because you're flying for JAZZ, doesn't mean that WJ will waive they're 3000 hr requirement. I'm pretty sure that they won't hire you just because you have 1800 tt, and 500 hrs of rj time. It's the same with AC, LOU18 or not.
just my 2 cents.
just my 2 cents.
Re: Jazz to AC
I'm kind of confused as to why everyone is so up in arms about LOU 18. I can't see how it hurts anyone applying off the street, so why should you all care so much?
Re: Jazz to AC
Quick correction, minimums are officially 2500 hrs, but I don't think anyone less than 4000 is getting in due to the amount of experienced pilots applying.FL020 wrote:doesn't mean that WJ will waive they're 3000 hr requirement.
Drinking outside the box.
Re: Jazz to AC
I care about LOU18 because,
-It favours a particular pilot group based on previous ownership and market conditions that are no longer relevant.
-It creates a false sense of entitlement to something that other free market, off-the-street pilots have to claw, scratch, and pray to obtain- an interview at Air Canada.
-It perpetuates the notion that Air Canada and Jazz are somehow related beyond a supplier/vendor relationship.
-It creates a framework within which these two unrelated groups can be easily pitted against one another by Air Canada for wages, working conditions, and flying.
-It undermines the respect that pilots of competing companies should have for one another on a professional basis by artificially dividing us into smaller, more easily manipulated groups that can be threatened or bribed through the use of meaningless contractual language masquarading as benefits.
-It favours a particular pilot group based on previous ownership and market conditions that are no longer relevant.
-It creates a false sense of entitlement to something that other free market, off-the-street pilots have to claw, scratch, and pray to obtain- an interview at Air Canada.
-It perpetuates the notion that Air Canada and Jazz are somehow related beyond a supplier/vendor relationship.
-It creates a framework within which these two unrelated groups can be easily pitted against one another by Air Canada for wages, working conditions, and flying.
-It undermines the respect that pilots of competing companies should have for one another on a professional basis by artificially dividing us into smaller, more easily manipulated groups that can be threatened or bribed through the use of meaningless contractual language masquarading as benefits.
