I thought american beer didn't count

[no alternate]

I'm curious as to where the problem is that everyone keep leaving... it can't be helping their problems much , and the busy season hasn't even started yet!

Is anyone keeping track of how many pilots have quit Perimeter in the last year. I hear it's plenty, and no end in sight

[Static]

I'm curious as to where the problem is that everyone keep leaving... it can't be helping their problems much , and the busy season hasn't even started yet!

Is anyone keeping track of how many pilots have quit Perimeter in the last year. I hear it's plenty, and no end in sight

23 since Jan1

[Norfolk]

All over this drinking situation or has working conditions gone downhill?

[giligan]

[sky's the limit]

I would like to see this thread pulled. No good will become of it for any of the parties involved.
It is not at all about what the title suggests.
Static, I must caution you, you are making a lot of accusations on a public forum, it is easy to prove that you are saying the things you are saying. I think it is not as simple for you to prove the things you are saying happened, whether they did or not.

Gil

The thread will not be pulled as it DOES address a major issue that effects all pilots in Canada, and as long as there are no names used, it will stay.

We are watching it, and so far the consensus is that it should stay.

stl

[Steve_P]

(edited/Lil - no names!), I heard you were bashing me, what have I ever done to you? I thought we were friends???

Steve

[notapilot]

Static,

Get off the cross, I need the wood. I have never heard someone go on about "doing the right thing" and "taking a stand" etc. quite like you. I am positive that you have not ALWAYS done the right thing in life nor have you ALWAYS taken a stand for what you believe in. If you disagree, please stay on the cross and I will find wood elsewhere.
You say that you are not bashing everyone at PAG when you go on and on in the forums but I disagree. I am not a pilot but I must say that between the orange story and this one, you have been an embarrassment to the company as a whole. By making the company sound unsafe and incompetent, you have pointed fingers at everyone.
As was stated by TR, don't feel you need to drop by and say "hi". You are mistaken about your vast supply of friends there.
As for your poetry, its just plain shitty!!!

[giligan]

.

[Disco Stu]

You calling me bitter? Jerk!

[xsbank]

Remind me again why I never tried to work at Perimeter (apart from it being largely in Winnipeg, that is...)?

Sure quick to shoot each other in the back. Way to go team!

Drinking and flying could be criminal negligence - try waving that around in the home of the first pilot prosecution for same? Maybe somebody should just call the RCMP and let them investigate and let the courts decide who's correct?

"Boys will be boys" what complete crap.

[Four1oh]

my take: I find the attitude within management to be quite surprising, considering the ruling and prosecution of a fellow manitoba pilot recently...

[ei ei owe]

my take: ...

My take, if you haven't worked there, you don't know what you've missed on.

Sure quick to shoot each other in the back. Way to go team!

Quick for one bitter, ex employee to spout off in a manner that befits a schoolyard at recess than a pilot at Jazz (they sure picked a professional pilot!).

As for the team at Perimeter, I'd say we have a good one. Annual summer golf tourneys, good Christmas parties, groups of pilots that work and socialize together all the time. Friday night hockey, where although the time slot wasn't ideal, the guys still made it out for a good skate. This year's softball team's got so many people signed up, we don't have anough room for everybody but that makes for plenty of subs and opens time to enjoy the evening. Poker tourneys, UFC's in HiDef and my favourite is just coming up (bring on the Seahawk 500!!!) when the river warms up.

[ski_bum]

apart from it being largely in Winnipeg, that is...)?

STEADY...

[wet power]

So much frustration here, Static, so much frustration. Quite normal for a 40 year old virgin. Don't worry, man. It will happen one day. When it finally does tell us all about it here.

[Cat Driver]

Does Perimeter have a support plan for dealing with pilots with a drinking problem?

Remember it is a very slippery slope from occasional lapses of violating the rules regarding drinking and flying and everyone playing ostrich, to these pilots becoming full blown alocholics.

We then move into an entirely different scenario, where punishment is not the answer for a disease.

I have not seen any discussion on a support system for problem drinkers, although it would seem this company has had some problem drinkers in their employ.

[Static]

my take: ...

My take, if you haven't worked there, you don't know what you've missed on.

Sure quick to shoot each other in the back. Way to go team!

Quick for one bitter, ex employee to spout off in a manner that befits a schoolyard at recess than a pilot at Jazz (they sure picked a professional pilot!).

As for the team at Perimeter, I'd say we have a good one. Annual summer golf tourneys, good Christmas parties, groups of pilots that work and socialize together all the time. Friday night hockey, where although the time slot wasn't ideal, the guys still made it out for a good skate. This year's softball team's got so many people signed up, we don't have anough room for everybody but that makes for plenty of subs and opens time to enjoy the evening. Poker tourneys, UFC's in HiDef and my favourite is just coming up (bring on the Seahawk 500!!!) when the river warms up.

hi, I would like to call attention to the time where the ops manager sent a vicious e-mail to the entire company stating that I had not learned to land an airplane (note: never damaged any airplane ever), followed 3 days later by his departure from the side of the runway in ganglers due to negligence. Schoolyard eh...so this is where 'boys will be boys' comes from? It IS complete crap.
Shall I remain voiceless when I see such an injustice? No, of course not, I didn't before, and I don't now. So what is professional to you? Hanging out with the boy's club and drinking then driving home? Why don't we leave the professional part to WORK only, where a professional is "A person who practices an occupation involving high standards of intellectual knowledge after successfully completing the required education and training." I believe drinking on duty is unprofessional which is what this topic is ultimately about (and making everyone aware of the other things that lead up to this). Someone who is unprofessional themselves has no value when accusing someone else of the same.

Now, for teamwork again...
Perimeter culture is everyone for themselves. Each department is an opponent of the other. Dispatch hates the ramp guys, maintenance hates the pilots (not on a personal level) etc.
When someone in cargo gets a raise, the check in staff gets one that is bigger. COME ON. Now we revert to childhood games...my dad is better than your dad crap. I couldn't stand the fighting that we as pilots had with management. Constant disagreements regarding pay, schedule, and what we were required to do in our job description. The guidance was minuscule, often leading to an employee caving in just to avoid the stress of the fight or the threat from management (you won't get paid, or you won't get upgraded etc.)

The company grew too fast without any support staff. No HR, probably a 4 to 1 employee to manager ratio, an expired pilot contract, and a standard operating procedure manual which hasn't been updated in 2.5 years.
Leadership will bear it's shadow on subordinates, and in the case of Perimeter, a manager who has a very well known reputation to 'drink a little too much' frequently will directly influence those below him. So now we wonder why people were drinking on duty.
People don't normally quit their team if they like it. and in this case, 25% of the pilots have quit in the past 4 months.
I've always said 'the key to motivation is trust' and in the case of perimeter people are motivated to LEAVE due to lack of trust.
So, anyone interested in joining the team?

--Static

[Static]

So much frustration here, Static, so much frustration. Quite normal for a 40 year old virgin. Don't worry, man. It will happen one day. When it finally does tell us all about it here.

I felt a boob once, it felt like a bag of sand....so nice...

frustration WTF?

--Static

[Disco Stu]

Static et. al,

Firstly, Static, your poem was inapropriate, hateful, immature and spiteful. True or not, you crossed the line and decided to turn a topic about your poor decision making into an unrelated topic. Way to dodge the subject.

Secondly, you share an opinion of PAG shared by basically noone other than YOU.

Thirdly, you have no idea what the social aspect of PAG was like like because YOU WERE NEVER PART OF IT!

Fourthly, maintenance didn't and doesn't hate pilots. They hate YOU! Mainly because of the total lack of respect YOU showed them. It is unprofessional to yell at maintenance in front of the passengers.

People are NOT leaving PAG because of anything other than you can only pay so much to fly onto the reserves for the rest of your life. People are leaving to go to WJ, AC, Jazz, Calm Air, etc, because they realize PAG isn't the be all and end all. People aren't leaving strictly for reasons of being unhappy. People are leaving to advance their careers. Please don't confuse this.

As much as you and I didn't agree on many things (and we do agree on many), and as much as we weren't friends, I did have a small amount of respect for you for sticking to what you believe in. However the ignorant hurtful and self rightous things you have said have seriously deterioriated my opinion of you.

Boo.

[notapilot]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e38_1183245367

[buster79]

sheesh! amazing that thing never broke the wings off!

[Static]

Static et. al,

Firstly, Static, your poem was inapropriate, hateful, immature and spiteful. True or not, you crossed the line and decided to turn a topic about your poor decision making into an unrelated topic. Way to dodge the subject.

The intent was to be hurtful and spiteful, but the subject was not dodged. It was based on a 'fictional story' or so it says in the original post. But was we all know it was me who flew home with some oranges in the plane. What I (and the people I associate with) believe was right was 'spun' to sound like it was wrong. Truth is, there was no winning that situation, I was set up to fail just like one pilot who was told by management that the CSR's were changed to a particular true air speed...as it turns out they were not and he was confronted by ATC. Anyway, my point to the first poem was that if what I did was supposed to demonstrate poor decision making, management has done far FAR worse yet no recourse was ever taken.

Secondly, you share an opinion of PAG shared by basically noone other than YOU.

Basically? I'll bet a large percentage of my opinion is shared by 1) those who have left and 2) many of those still there. I guarantee you it's not just me.

Thirdly, you have no idea what the social aspect of PAG was like like because YOU WERE NEVER PART OF IT!

In fact, you are incorrect. BEFORE you began at Perimeter I was actively part of the perimeter social circle. This was when it wasn't out of hand...but I realized that a fun party always turned into a rowdy frat party with people drawing on others, taking horrible pictures of things being done to passed out people, and fights. I decided that it wasn't for me, but from time to time I'd check back to see if things had changed...and year after year....things had not in fact I'd even say they got worse. How is a person like me supposed to feel when at the christmas party, my name gets called as a prize winner, then, while collecting it, one person says "why would a Jewish guy come to a christmas party?" WOW, at that moment, I was done. I'd never felt so expelled, and I'd never felt so hurt in my life. So, to say I was never part of it is untrue, but my reasons for not rejoining it were clear.

Fourthly, maintenance didn't and doesn't hate pilots. They hate YOU! Mainly because of the total lack of respect YOU showed them. It is unprofessional to yell at maintenance in front of the passengers.

I love how the story gets flipped here...I wasn't the one yelling in front of the passengers, it was MAINTENANCE who was yelling at ME in front of the passengers. Also, I'd like to point out that one Maintenance supervisor told me specifically that maintenance didn't hate me, in fact he personally respected that I was detailed when conveying my maintenance issues, and he respected my care of the airplanes. I'm not the greatest at dealing with humans, especially when external influences from work affect that moment, so yes I'll blame Perimeter for putting me in a grumpy mood some days, but I'll blame myself for being not so nice sometimes. Believe me (maybe you don't) that I've tried very hard to improve in that area despite what many lazy people will say.

People are NOT leaving PAG because of anything other than you can only pay so much to fly onto the reserves for the rest of your life. People are leaving to go to WJ, AC, Jazz, Calm Air, etc, because they realize PAG isn't the be all and end all. People aren't leaving strictly for reasons of being unhappy. People are leaving to advance their careers. Please don't confuse this.

I'm not confused, I believe you are. Why would a metro 2/3 captain leave perimeter to become an FO on the same airplane? How does this help her career? The words out of the chief pilots mouth are that bearskin and calm air are sideways moves. I'll be he even believes Jazz is. People ARE unhappy or they would stay longer than 6 months.

As much as you and I didn't agree on many things (and we do agree on many), and as much as we weren't friends, I did have a small amount of respect for you for sticking to what you believe in. However the ignorant hurtful and self rightous things you have said have seriously deterioriated my opinion of you.

Boo.

Well, I don't blame you, but I didn't do it to make friends.

--Static

[Cat Driver]

This is like gawking at a wreck on the 401 where hundredsn of vehicles are so mangled it is impossible to even guess who was at fault.

The only sure thing we know is it was a serious wreck.

[CP]

Damn good entertainment!

[2R]

American beer is like making love in a canoe : It is fooking close to water

Technically the alcohol content is the same .It is how it is measured at the brewery that is different .

[Cat Driver]

Damn good entertainment!

I do not consider this to be good entertainment.

I think it is very disturbing to see these issues discussed on an open forum where the more we read the more we are wondering what level and quality of operational control this company has.