Westjet

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:56 pm

Just booked my 10th flight on WJ!

Gotta support the gang!

G

DragEraser · Post by **DragEraser** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:27 am

How about bringing a can of Campbells soup for the co-pilot. That'd support his family too!

-700 · Post by **-700** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:49 am

Instead of writing what you think is going on at WJ maybe you should ask an F/O. I think you will find a happy lot, the slary is not that bad. I rather be paid a little less and be happy than a little more and be unhappy.

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:45 am

'Drag Eraser'...

I guess u haven't gotten "the call" yet???

I now have 7 ex-colleagues who fly right-seat at WJ and they love it! OK, the first few months are a little rough in terms of money, but it picks-up quickly! Pretty sweet lifestyle once you are established!

REMEMBER ALL:
Discount airlines mean discount salaries. The days of the $150,000-$350,000 pilot salaries are over. Why do you think AC got rid of their 747's and put in massive orders for 318's, RJ's, -8's, and Embraers??? Aren't going to be any RJ captains making $250,000/year!!

G

DragEraser · Post by **DragEraser** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:12 am

I haven't got the call because I've NEVER put in a resume, nor will I EVER. But I love how people think as soon as someone says something negative about a company, it is because they were rejected or terminated.

I know several people who work there including a close friend who's been there just shy 2 yrs now and due to the remuneration package being poor, I feel my point is valid.

I don't see why pilots defend the low wages today @ WJ&JG?? It just brings the standards down even more. Its one thing to say "ya the pay is low and what I'm doing is worth more, but oh well". Its quite another thing to make the assertion that what they pay is a reasonable living wage for someone with the experience and skill required to work there. It isn't.

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:29 am

'Drag"...fair enough!!

I'll say again:

"REMEMBER ALL:
Discount airlines mean discount salaries. The days of the $150,000-$350,000 pilot salaries are over. Why do you think AC got rid of their 747's and put in massive orders for 318's, RJ's, -8's, and Embraers??? Aren't going to be any RJ captains making $250,000/year!!"

G

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:41 am

What are you, the "discount airlines mean discount wages" evangelist?

"REMEMBER ALL:"?~!? WTF?

Tell it those discount airline pilots at Southwest! Do you even know what those "discount" pilots make?

(Sorry for the rant, my ignorance tolerance level seems a little lower than usual today...)

shamrock105 · Post by **shamrock105** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:34 pm

At the end of the day flying rightseat in a 737 beats working some ramp job in the middle of nowhere. We complain when the jobs are non existent and do the same because the salaries are not way up there. Westjet set their minimums at 4,000 hrs which means openings for lower time guys which has to be good news for all concerned.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:44 pm

Hey Drag... did you realise that a Jazz Fo makes less than a WestJet FO does!

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:03 pm

'complexintentions':

Holy smokers man, u blow a gasket there???

The reason behind my point is that I get tired of the endless posts here complaining about salaries! Piston, turbine, F/O, Captain, WJ, Jgo, AC, etc.

As far as the airlines go, average pilot salaries have been falling world-wide over the last 10 years and the driving force behind the fall is LCC (discount airlines). [Smaller operators are in a similar boat in the sense that operating costs (maint., fuel, etc.) have been rising dramatically as well.]

The bottom line is that airlines that charge discount-fares simply can't afford to pay their pilots 'big bucks' anymore!

G

duplicate2 · Post by **duplicate2** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:35 pm

greenwich wrote:REMEMBER ALL:
Discount airlines mean discount salaries. The days of the $150,000-$350,000 pilot salaries are over. Why do you think AC got rid of their 747's and put in massive orders for 318's, RJ's, -8's, and Embraers??? Aren't going to be any RJ captains making $250,000/year!!

What Dash 8 and 318 orders are you referring to? None that I'm aware of. 318s were in competition with ERJs and CRJ, no Dash 8 orders in years.

centerstored · Post by **centerstored** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:40 pm

I know a guy who saw his profit sharing cheque go from 15 grand to 500 bucks. Ouch! If you exercise those stock options you'll actually lose your shirt. Guess that's the price you pay for performance compensated low wages...times are good, things are ok, times get rough and you're hurting.
Is it true that WJ will be parking all of their 200's? If so I guess the grand expansion/hiring plans will be put on hold!?
Keep on drinking that kool-aid!

29chev · Post by **29chev** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:41 pm

Greenwich
As dup-2 says what 318's, also they are parking Dash 8's not buying new ones, and the 744's were getting old and are being replaced by 340-500 and 340-600 which pay close to the same as the 744's.
Why don't you make up some more sh-t and post it as nothing(little) you say seems to have any truth to it.
Funny we all get tired of different things.
29chev

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:02 pm

greenwich is right!

those high paid jobs are going down the hole, south east Asia and the Gulf countries will have some good paying positions for expatriate pilots, but that too will fade away once they'll enough local workforce. And thrust me, they going hard at it(i.e. training the local workforce).

Having worked in those regions, I would say that the expatriate who will probably keep their jobs, will be the ones with a lot of experience who maybe eligible for some management positions.

As for north America, If major airlines like Air Canada manage to find a niche market and keep it ( like international), they will probably still have a good pay scale. If not, all new hires will a pay maybe a little better than the other low cost carriers but far from what they are today.

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:06 pm

OK 'duplicate2' and '29chev' I may be a little off whith my AC types(-8, 318,319,320,321), I guess I'm not a 'pilot-geek' like you two!

My underlying point was that AC's fleet is changing dramatically. They are moving away from large aircraft and replacing them with a huge fleet of smaller planes. Smaller aircraft and discount fares mean smaller salaries...sorry for the 'reality check'!

Current Fleet:
About 2 BAE 146
About 120 319,320,321's
About 61 Dash 8's
About 41 RJ's
About 19 330, 340's
About 10 767's (which are all on the block)

Bottom Line: About 224 Small aircraft...About 20 large aircraft.

Orders:
15 Embraer 175's - Starting early 2005
45 Embraer 190's - Starting late 2005
15 RJ 700's - Starting late 2004
30 RJ 200's - Starting 2005

Oh yeah...2 A340-500's in 2004

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

G

PS '29chev': Sorry buddy, but this sh-t isn't made up!! (truth hurts?)

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:25 pm

You don’t do your homework very well, I think it’s time for you to do a reality check..

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:09 pm

'rebel':

Nicely done...that makes a lot of sense?!?!?!?

G

nightrunner · Post by **nightrunner** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:23 pm

greenwich said "The bottom line is that airlines that charge discount-fares simply can't afford to pay their pilots 'big bucks' anymore"

Southwest pay scale

Avg. guarantee: 78 hrs/mo

YEAR 737NG, 737-500, 737-300, 737-200

12 $182 $120
11 $180 $119
10 $178 $117
9 $176 $116
8 $174 $115
7 $172 $113
6 $170 $112
5 $168 $109
4 $166 $100
3 $164 $90
2 $162 $81
1 $160 $48

5th year f/o pay = $102,024 + overtime
5th year cpt pay = $152,748 + overtime

top f/o $112,320
top cpt $170,352

Not too bad for a discount airline.

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:32 pm

Fair enough 'nightrunner'...I'm glad you do your research unlike most of the gang here!!

But remember, compare those salaries to main-stream airlines...BA, Virgin, UAL, etc.

Discount airlines cannot afford to pay!

G

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:33 pm

Oh yeah, and Southwest also happens to be the most successful discount-airline in history!

G

29chev · Post by **29chev** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:41 pm

Ok Greenwich,

You win ...boy you sure showed me ....man your right it does hurt....

I see your point and your right the big money years are gone.....but if your going to put information out there that is only partly true then expect to get flamed a bit .
The truth is there are still a lot of 150,000/year jobs out there even in Canada and it might surprise you to know that AC has between 30-40 767's both 200's and 300's not 10 and they also have 3 - 340-600 on order for delivery in late 06 early 07, in addition reps from AC have been out looking for an additional 6-8 wide bodies (both 767 and 340's) but are having a hard time to find them as a lot of companys are looking for large aircraft right now...but never mind me, tell us more about what you were saying

greenwich · Post by **greenwich** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:15 pm

'29chev':

No hard feelings!

It just astonishes me that so many people that work in our industry have absoultely no idea what's going on! There are still young pilots in Canada that can't wait to start making $300,000 a year on AC's 747's!!!!!!

No idea about each airline, careers, salaries, industry direction, global aviation, etc. Every time I come on here there's another rant about the industry and what the airlines pay, and what salaries SHOULD be!!

If we want to be successful in any career we owe it to ourselves to know as much about our industry as possible!

G

pika · Post by **pika** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:26 pm

I now have 7 ex-colleagues who fly right-seat at WJ and they love it!

You claim not to be an aviation geek but you keep track of all your ex-colleagues that work at WJ? Perhaps if you let us know the experience level of your excolleagues we could get a better picture of why they are so enthusiastic.
I know more people who have left WJ because they could not stand the place than you know people working there. If you get some jet time before you go to WJ you might realize flying a clapped out -200 20 odd days a month is far from the pinnacle of Canadian aviation.

OK, the first few months are a little rough in terms of money, but it picks-up quickly!

Doesn't the pay scale for a first YEAR FO last one year? How can it get better after a few months?

sprucemonkey · Post by **sprucemonkey** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:51 pm

You are in training those months. Take home pay is

during training. Just getting you used to what lies ahead I guess.

pika · Post by **pika** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:52 pm

Dare I ask what training pay is?