Slowdown

[beast]

Thats interesting that you detect insecurity in my formal education, seahawk. I'm currently studying in the final year of my MBA at the University of British Columbia.

I know thats nothing compared to your 2 year aviation college diploma, though.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Thats interesting that you detect insecurity in my formal education, seahawk. I'm currently studying in the final year of my MBA at the University of British Columbia.

beast, what connection is there between getting a MBA and flying an airplane?

I do not have an MBA but I have flown every type of airplane known to man and I can say without any hesitation that it is not a difficult job period.....all it takes is average intelligence ( in case you turn out to be below average you can go to TC. ) and average motor skills to fly any airplane made.

To try and skew it to being a job for super man is being naive.

By the way what is your pilot experience?

[Rudder Bug]

it is not a difficult job period.....all it takes is average intelligence ( in case you turn out to be below average you can go to TC. ) and average motor skills to fly any airplane made.

. my coffee came out of my nose reading you...again!

[beast]

., you completely missed the point of my post(s). Seahawk, and some others, seem to believe that commercial airline pilots are not highly trained and educated professionals. I disagree.

He has challenged me on my level of formal school education, and I replied. Never did I say that an MBA was required to fly an aircraft.

In fact, I am of the opinion that formal school (especially university) in its present state is a terrible indicator of intelligence, ability, and eagernes, and should not be used as heavily as it is in aviation, or other fields.

I will roughly quote From the Ground Up: "Learning to fly is easy. The skill to manipulate the controls of an aircraft can be learned with a few hundred hours of patient application. The process of becoming an expert aviator takes a lifetime... something like that.

My point is - professional pilots must exhibit such a high standard of professionalism and technical knowledge, while accepting such pressing responsibilities, that they surely are among the ranks of doctors and especially lawyers, many of whom will never demonstrate such characteristics. Like my brother

Now, seahawk probably bitches incessantly that he's not paid enough, but if he doesn't consider himself to be a professional that deserves a professional income, why would he expect anything else?

[B-rad]

.

[seahawk]

Beast,
I work for myself and therefore earn my income based on my ability to produce using the mechanism of my enterprise. I do ok. My education equipped me to do ok. My training in aviation, both in the drivers seat and in the hanger helped me to acheive that success by giving me the skills.

It was not my intention to question your inteligence or insinuate a lack thereof. I would ask you though is there anyone in aviation but a pilot who would consider pilots to be highly educated professionals. We tend to have overly inflated opinions of ourselves, and I feel that you are a case in point.
Cheers

[fortis risk]

With respect to Beast's long winded comments,

I am fairly well educated, I have a B.Comm and am currently working toward my law degree. I have interspersed my education by working at least for part of the time in aviation. I can say with a great deal of certainty that piloting an aircraft is not a difficult job, even when the poop hits the fan, and the majority of pilots are hardly professional. AMEs on the otherhand I have an enormous respect for. If for no other reason, than having to put up with pilots.

I love aviation, always have but unfortunatly it is a dying industry. Fuel prices will kill it.

[CAL]

fortis risk

Perhaps you work for Fortis who knows...

I hate to say it...and as a commercial pilot I obviously take offence to your comments....

I would not say by any means that it is the hardest job in the world but I would caution a guess its a bit harder than shifting piles of paper around on your desk and endless memos about absolutely nothing.....not to mention the all important 'meeting'

In addition I think you would agree that anyone that feels it is appropriate to make the comments you have made on a 'aviation' website would show that you are either just trying to get us going(which I may have fallen for) or you are just a complete idiot.

oh and the B.comm with honours? who cares...who doesn’t have a degree these days I have two of them....and all they did was delay my number...

I would agree though that the cost of fuel will either change this business totally or kill it.

Keep up the positive and constructive comments though....nothing personal ofcourse...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I can say with a great deal of certainty that piloting an aircraft is not a difficult job, even when the poop hits the fan, and the majority of pilots are hardly professional. AMEs on the otherhand I have an enormous respect for. If for no other reason, than having to put up with pilots.

I must agree with you fortis, flying airplanes is way over hyped, on the other hand fixing them after pilots break them, that does require some talent.

In addition I think you would agree that anyone that feels it is appropriate to make the comments you have made on a 'aviation' website would show that you are either just trying to get us going(which I may have fallen for) or you are just a complete idiot

.

I must be an idiot then.

[CAL]

.,

Pretty sure I was not referring to you, at least I didnt think I was? But if you want to take it that way then I guess then ya...you are an idiot.

[Cat Driver]

Aahh that hurt CAL how am I going to cope now that I have been found to be an idiot?

Maybe you could give me some remedial training to bring me up to par as a professional pilot?

[CAL]

I have never seen a bunch of guys put themselves down so much...

[Cat Driver]

CAL it is not putting pilots down it is trying to point out that the job of flying an airplane is an occupation that involves driving a vehicle that has been designed to be operated by the average person in society.

Sure there are specific skills one needs to learn but they do not require any exceptional aptitude.

Pilots tend to over estimate their profession probably because it was seen as a hero type of endeavor back when aviation first got started.

As airplanes evolve they become easier and easier to operate due to the advances in aircraft design and building technology soon the pilot will just be an observer..wait a minute....the last airplane I flew when I retired was more observing than actually flying....typing skills were a definite asset though.

So for an idiot I think I did quite well.

[florch]

I can now see why some seemingly intelligent people seem to muddle through it while the systems in place keep them safe, while others are true professionals that would be a pleasure to fly with and reassuring to put your family with.

If you don't take yourself and your profession with a bit of respect, enjoy scaring yourself every couple months.

Any one skill isn't difficult to learn, it's having all of them all the time and the judgment that comes with experience that makes someone a pro. It's also about respecting your career enough to keep learning. Thankfully there are enough pros out there to make up for you dillweeds that think it's a piece of cake.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I can now see why some seemingly intelligent people seem to muddle through it while the systems in place keep them safe, while others are true professionals that would be a pleasure to fly with and reassuring to put your family with.

Therefore you agree it really does not require exceptional skills to do the job or the group who muddle through it wouldn't get through.

If you don't take yourself and your profession with a bit of respect, enjoy scaring yourself every couple months

.

There is a big difference between having respect for yourself and your profession and thinking you are in a profession that requires exceptional skills and intelligence to be a part of it.

Any one skill isn't difficult to learn, it's having all of them all the time and the judgment that comes with experience that makes someone a pro. It's also about respecting your career enough to keep learning.

Those are hard to argue with points which hold true for any profession.

Thankfully there are enough pros out there to make up for you dillweeds that think it's a piece of cake.

I have no idea who you think dillweeds are in the aviation community.

Maybe you could be more specific?

[fortis risk]

Cal where would you suggest I make aviation related comments, in the farm tractor forum.
While you may disagree with what I have to say, I would argue that this is the forum for it. Or is it that this is a site devoted to the only people in aviation that matter: the pilot. As usual a pilot who thinks they are the center of the universe.
As far as you taking offence. The only reason you would be offended is if you are in fact in the majority as previously mentioned, if you are in the minority and are a true professional you should be proud, and I would thank you for elevating the reputation of your occupation.

[Cat Driver]

florch, you have to come back and explain to us just what a dillweed is.

Quote:
Thankfully there are enough pros out there to make up for you dillweeds that think it's a piece of cake.

[SQ]

hey cat did you ever thought about quoting . ?

he is really more peacefull than cat driver...

., the aviation's Dr Jekill and Mister Hide

[beast]

I will field my earlier question: If flying is so easy, why should a wage of more than 8 dollars an hour be expected?

Oh, and the price of fuel will soon return to normal, people have always screamed that the sky is falling (1970's anyone?) and then down it goes - after the top Exxon execs have walked away with tens of billions.

[jetflightinstructor]

*

[fortis risk]

So beast, how about a wager on your theory on dropping fuel prices. I realize how foolish it might be to question a future MBA but I'm nothing if not a fool.

So how bout it set a date for fuel prices to return to "normal" if they do I will never post here again. If they don't then you do the same.

What do you say?

By the way, are the entrance requirements at flight schools as stringent as when I went through. Anyone capable of spending money can fly a plane.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

We have to beleive that at the end of the journey, our skills and knowledge will make the difference.

Having reached the end of my journey as a working pilot I am satisfied that I did my best skills wise as well as career wise.

Now I can enjoy retirement and only fly for fun.

When I'm bored I come here and occasionally even be seen as an idiot by some who have obviously found flying to be much more difficult than I did.

[jetflightinstructor]

*

[beast]

I like the sound of a wager, fortis - I estimate the price of fuel will be down to "normal" levels within six months - i've already grown sick of this forum though, so probably won't be posting then.

Oh, and jet flight instructor - that is a good point, however, the concept of the GDP has now become so separated from the lives of ordinary middle class Americans that it is really almost meaningless - with the price of fuel high, limited job prospects, dirt wages and no retirement benefits for those with jobs, and huge levels of credit card debt, the US is entering what will appear to be a recession to everyone except those on wall st.

[Flybabe]

Where did anyone suggest that the AME's are any less vauable than pilots?? I trust those guys with my life. Very valuable in my book.

What's disappointing is running into AME's that think pilots are scum.... haven't met but one or two, but you wonder who ticked them off to that degree.