Flying low kicks ass, any of you who don't think so are wusses
Sorry, but low level flying is exhilarating
Wow where to begin, I routinely fly low level and would never say it "Kicks Ass" I fly low level to get a job done as safe and professionaly as possible If you have to fly low never do it without an "out" and always at reduced speeds for manuverability, never try to scudd run if you are not familiar with the terrain and set your limits higher in mountainous terrain compared to flat land, the only reason I fly low level is if I'm in a aircraft not capable of legally completing the trip IFR or if my destination is not serviced by an IFR aproach (suprisingly common for gravel bars and bush strips) I've been there low level many times wishing I had the power and the capability of a King Air to get above it all.
Dammit reading this thread justifies my alcoholism
Excessive speed = reduced turning radius (two of my "facts")
Insufficient climb power - evident due to the fact that the aircraft had tried to turn around in a box canyon (where we found it).
Wrong valley? - ok, you got me there, I have no idea what the pilot's motivations were for flying up that valley. If he planned to do it, I am at a loss for words. If he chose the wrong valley, he made a mistake that killed him - we all make mistakes, I am not speaking ill of him.
We all like to throw around these posts, but nothing ever comes out of them. We all, as consummate professionals should try and learn from our brethren's mistakes. Instead we all end up slagging each other for speaking ill of the dead and continue to live with our collective heads buried in the sand.
Let's try and learn from this horrible accident: stick with the kind of flying that you know well.
SAR...thanks for the excellent perspective.
As for the others, please read the entire report before posting comments that may disturb friends and families of the deceased.
Swamp, it is impossible to not be rude about a pilot who did something stupid and got himself killed. We are trying to learn about their mistakes and add them to the long list of things that if we do, will get us killed too.
Like I said before, every time one of us gets in an airplane we are putting ourselves out there to have our actions debriefed by the whole of the rest of the aviation community. Every crash gets written up and dispersed to the entire community of pilots.
It is up the the survivors to remember their loved ones in pleasant ways, the same way they don't tend to remember how they crashed their bicycle or fell out of a tree. We only discuss their fatal accident with the purpose of improving the whole industry, by increment and by avoiding the same fate ourselves.
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
While enjoying some brews with some "Real Pilots" one of the guys bragged about rolling the airplanes several times on empty legs to impress the newbies .
I asked the maintenance crew chief on the quiet what they would look for if an airplane had been rolled .I never told who had bragged about what they were doing as i thought they were just kidding .The AME's found quite a lot of hidden damage to the airplane .When i was asked who told me they were doing aerobatics i told them i could not remember as a lot of things were said .The AME went on to check the rest of the planes and found similar damage in the tail of two other airplanes both flown by the same guys.
I sometimes wonder if i should have said more as who knows maybe it was one of those newbies showing what he had been shown to the next generation .Or maybe they just ran out of luck in an airplane that had hidden damage from a previous flight .
To break the a/c limitations intentionally is what is being fought over in Winnipeg right now. Maybe we will see more criminal charges in court if this is the norm out there and some pilots still think this is 'cool?'
Interesting way to change the supply and demand curve and bring up wages, throw a bunch of pilots in jail.
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
That may be true, Widow, there may be positive consequences to this court thing, but I tend to think its a real rot in our 'profession' if we need the courts to regulate our conduct. They have always been there for things like alcohol offences, but flying a 'normal' charter flight to a lodge? Or intentionally flying low and driving into a rock face? How sad.
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"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
I have done things that should have cost me my life. (period)
The guy in the left seat on this trip was a cool guy.(period)
Me an abuddy 15 minutes before the pilot died... while he waited for gas ...chatted with him an told him not to bend the airplane on a ferry flight cuz it would not look good on the resume... it's happened before at CMA/NTair(bending airplanes)... be careful if your havin a little fun.
It was not weather nor maintenance that caused the loss or pain or unending sadness the family memebers endure.
Just youthful high spirits and a lack of that extra quantity of bullshit luck that a lot of us are still here because of. He and his copilot deserved the extra luck they just did not get it in sufficient quantity.
Cheers amigo I wish you were still here to get old an wise like CAT driver
(seriously no bs)
Just youthful high spirits and a lack of that extra quantity of bullshit luck that a lot of us are still here because of. He and his copilot deserved the extra luck they just did not get it in sufficient quantity.
Cheers amigo I wish you were still here to get old an wise like CAT driver
(seriously no bs)
This subject is very troubling for the simple fact the consequences of having a little fun in this case not only cost two lives but changed many lives forever.
There is no one answer that will prevent these things from happening again, but for sure we need more peer pressure to try and change the attitude that you can mix fun flying with work flying.
When you see or hear pilots bragging about doing things such as aerobatic flying in non aerobatic approved airplanes or cowboy flying at low level you should calmly point out that the way to be admired as a good hands and feet pilot is to take training in an aerobatic airplane, not your employers turboprop twin.
You all can start with g5 and make it clear that he/she is not to be admired as a good pilot but held in contempt for making the good ones look like idiots.
Cat
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Just youthful high spirits and a lack of that extra quantity of bullshit luck that a lot of us are still here because of. He and his copilot deserved the extra luck they just did not get it in sufficient quantity.
Cheers amigo I wish you were still here to get old an wise like CAT driver
(seriously no bs)
This subject is very troubling for the simple fact the consequences of having a little fun in this case not only cost two lives but changed many lives forever.
There is no one answer that will prevent these things from happening again, but for sure we need more peer pressure to try and change the attitude that you can mix fun flying with work flying.
When you see or hear pilots bragging about doing things such as aerobatic flying in non aerobatic approved airplanes or cowboy flying at low level you should calmly point out that the way to be admired as a good hands and feet pilot is to take training in an aerobatic airplane, not your employers turboprop twin.
You all can start with g5 and make it clear that he/she is not to be admired as a good pilot but held in contempt for making the good ones look like idiots.
Cat
Well spoken sir, you have obviously been around and certainly can put things in prospective (old age has tangible benefits)
An apology to anyone I may have offended here by my immaturity and sarcasm. MB was a great guy and a skilled pilot but there's no doubt he pushed it too hard on his last trip. It could have been a birdstrike, or any number of variables that brought them down but the truth is if they'd flown the 200 up where it's designed to fly the trip would have likely been uneventful.
Quite frankly I think I was delirious and or inebriated when I made most of the postings in this topic and honestly I'm pretty sure I was just trolling for some reason. Trying to get a rise out of you guys. Granted I've done my fair share of low level flying. Sometimes it was a bit nerve racking, other times it was truly a blast. I remember all too well my apprehension of scudding down the Skagit Valley as a last resort to make it home with the sun beyond set and the ceiling closing in on me. I'm not going to lie, there were times when we flew unnecessarily low just for the sheer thrill of it.
I'd heard a King Air went missing that day, five years ago. We were supposed to meet up for a couple of beers. I'll never forget when his father called me wanting to know if I knew anything.
I left that type of flying behind me the summer Mike passed and now almost without exception I'm sitting on my thumbs staring at Smith screens for hours on end while the autopilot flies SIDs, Flight Levels, STARs and 3 degree glideslopes onto 10,000 feet of pavement. It's not nearly as exciting, but it pays the bills and it's infinitely safer than buzzing along the BC coastal range.
'and we die young, faster we run.'
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Last edited by g5 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stupid mistake by an experienced pilot. The airline is out an airlpane and two young lives are snuffed out. It makes you wonder if this could have been avoided if an advanced quality system was in place. One that included measures that supported a positive company culture.
