Should i do my IFR right away?

[Caiss]

i'm starting my cpl right now and the school is asking me if i want to do my multi-IFR or IFR. Do you really need it for your first job? or should i wait before i find a job to do it or something?

Another question, if i'm checked on a cessna 150 152 and 172 do i have to be checked on an areonca for my hours to count towards my cpl? its a tail dragger.

Thanks

[Wacko]

Depends on what your first job is. If you're planning to fly floats or instruct then no... pretty much anything else.. yes... even float ops like to see the IFR

[E-Flyer]

The bigger question is, do you know enough about what you're doing to know if instructing or floats is your gig? I mean you will meet some pretty amazing people now that you're doing your CPL and may hold a different perspective of what you want your first job to be like.

The only problem with doing the IFR right away is that you won't be able to rent the multi out for solo, and I sure as hell doubt you'll fly IFR in a single engine on a regular basis which will most likely not motivate you to do it at all. It's a lot of money to put down and you may have an expired license for no good use in 2 years. Then you have to deal with the renewal, the ride and gah everything all over again. You know what I'd recommend? do the sim training and get familiar with the IFR op's and procedures. Basic knowledge of that will be required on the CPL written anyway and heck, if you get stuck in a bad position one day, those extra 20 sim hours may help you out !

[BoostedNihilist]

you will need a checkout and transition training in the aeronca. Depending on where your hands and feet are there is usually some dual (up to about 8 hrs depending) involved as well.

[Adam Oke]

I don't hold a Multi or Group One. I have no desire at this point in time. It all depends on where you want to be. You're first job is likely not going to be MIFR, more so likely to be a SVFR job. I say hold off because it's not going to be your first job, thus you have to worry about it's up keep every two years, and you can make some money (I use that phrase lightly) while working a SVFR job, and when it comes time to say the 1000-1500hr mark go out and get the MIFR. You will have a far better grasp on flying, the aviation environment in general, blue handles, and maybe some retractable gear time ... all better introduced to while getting paid, then indroduced to while PAYING hundreds of dollars per hour.

Oh and one more thing. Do all you're flying in the aeronca ... don't bother toying around with the nosedraggers.

[E-Flyer]

Adam put it into beautiful perspective.

But, I do add - if you're willing to move around the world, you can get a jet/turbo prop job in no time which requires you to have an MIFR. So again, it comes down to you knowing what it is you really want or see your self doing.

[square]

Yes. Do the IFR. For a number of reasons.

You're much more qualified than someone without one.

It saves you money. If you do 160 hours of single-engine and then 40 on a twin, it's cheaper than doing 200 hours of single-engine then 40 on a twin sometime later. So you save 6 to 8 thousand dollars.

Yes, you may very well get a job that you need your IFR for. It's not hard. There's plenty of fresh commercial pilots going right seat in a Navajo or whatever and they'll fly it IFR. Any twin can file, so can Caravans and the Pilatus.

Another rather important thing, even if you don't get a job where you use your IFR, you'll need your instrument skills! Commercial flights have to get done! Unless the weather is super super shitty you're gonna be going out in it, I don't know if you've flown in low vis but it only takes about 8 SM vis for you to lose the horizon and you're still legal VFR down to 1 SM enroute. You can't make out shit in 1 mile! So the skills you develop will really help you when you're on the flights you earn your money on.

Oh and one more thing, it's a pain in the ass having to do your IFR when you're already working. You have to take a month off, often go to another city, it's a mess if you're working.

Do the IFR! It's a great challenge, fun to fly, and will really improve all your flying skills.

[jetflightinstructor]

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[brokenwing]

float ops like to see an IFR???.... thats new

and to jetflightinstructor, how does 2 yrs or any amount of time for that matter in the bush make one less apt to learn?... simple IFR procedures at that? Thats probly the most backwards thing i've heard in a long time, I'd like to see an IFR pilot fly VFR in the bush, when the have to make decisions on their own. Yet many bush pilots make an easy transition to IFR.

[KenoraPilot]

Get a float rating! Go get a float job....trust me! I know Maldivian Air Taxi through Borek is always looking for pilots! Hiring as low at 220TT with 7 hours on floats....

[Adam Oke]

Yea Borek also needs the Multi and Group One no?

[square]

the passenger who pays a ride in your 206 would imagine that you can do a VOR appoach if one day you are really stuck with the weather.

Uh, IFR is illegal in any single-engine piston in commercial ops. You still have to get in VFR when you're really stuck with the weather, which means you gotta be lower, which means you gotta be even sharper.

[lyncher]

Single turbine in IFR is pretty common.... and, so long as you have your IFR, if you get a check on a twin, your IFR is upgraded to a multi anyways....

[Wacko]

..and, so long as you have your IFR, if you get a check on a twin, your IFR is upgraded to a multi anyways....

Seriously? But would a company hire you with a Single-Eng IFR?

[Adam Oke]

He or she's for serious.

If you think of it from an employers point of view, would you hire the guy with a Multi and Group 3 or the Multi and Group One? I bet it's possible to get hired on with a group 3, and it has probably been done in the past. Just more difficult I would assume.

[AuxBatOn]

the passenger who pays a ride in your 206 would imagine that you can do a VOR appoach if one day you are really stuck with the weather.

Uh, IFR is illegal in any single-engine piston in commercial ops. You still have to get in VFR when you're really stuck with the weather, which means you gotta be lower, which means you gotta be even sharper.

If you can't get in VFR for whatever reason and everything in close proximity is sucked in weather, you hang out until you're out of fuel and crash? Basic IF skills will save your life and will make you a better pilot.

AuxBatOn

[Cat Driver]

If you can't get in VFR for whatever reason and everything in close proximity is sucked in weather, you hang out until you're out of fuel and crash? Basic IF skills will save your life and will make you a better pilot.

If you get stuck in a situation where the weather turns unexpectedly as can sometimes happen and you are flying a single engine airplane on a commercial flight and you crash because you were reluctant to finish the flight IFR remember all your loved ones can proudly say XXX never ever broke the rules.

[Wacko]

Wait, so you're saying a PC-12 can't be flown in IFR?!

[Wacko]

Um... so... 703.22 (2)...

[square]

If you can't get in VFR for whatever reason and everything in close proximity is sucked in weather, you hang out until you're out of fuel and crash?

That's the most idiotic thing I've been asked on here.

[AuxBatOn]

My point is that it's much more idiotic to try to fly low in bad weather/reduced visibility than "break a rule" and shoot an IFR approach that you would be qualified to shoot if you have an Instrument Rating. (and I was being sarcastic in my previous comment)

AuxBatOn

[square]

Yes, well, I made a similar point in my earlier post. But "the passenger who pays a ride in your 206 would imagine that you can do a VOR appoach if one day you are really stuck with the weather." makes it sound like you actually can file IFR in a 206, and it utterly states that your passenger can expect you to take him in IMC conditions. It's wrong, and being that so many new pilots read and learn from this site, and very likely do not cross-reference posts with facts, I simply pointed out the reg.

Anyway. Yes, your instrument skills can save your ass. That doesn't mean you can just start flying 'simulated IFR' unprepared. We're talking about a flight in some small 703 op where your destination just goes to shit, right? Flying without much vis enroute at cruise altitude is one thing, you can get yourself into some trouble if your navaid dies or especially if your AI topples, but if you need to, okay, I can understand that may happen. But shooting a non-precision approach down to the ground without any visual reference or proper IFR procedures? Death wish. You likely won't have approach plates or know the minima, you don't have anyone providing seperation, you won't be current, you might know where and at what altitude the obstacles are, which might help if your map is actually up to date, you have a precise altimeter, the right altimeter setting, cold weather temp corrections, the crane/obstruction NOTAMs. This is when you do turn around. Being IFR rated helps you fly MVFR stuff, like knowing how to find safe altitudes when you're enroute at minima; how to tune in, read and follow the ILS when you're special VFR, certain emergencies. But try and go freewheeling VFR in IMC and you won't just scare yourself, you'll get reported to enforcement. Competing companies do it every chance they get.

[AuxBatOn]

I always fly with plates, even on a clear to the million day, or at least the plates for the airports close to my route. Just in case. I do agree, don't fly an approach unprepared. Have your plates handy. But in the end, I think the 'simulated' approach is safer than the low flying in crappy vis (if you don't know the NOTAMs for cranes and unlighted tower for an IFR approach, you probably won't have the NOTAMs for those for a flight at low altitude)

AuxBatOn

[jetflightinstructor]

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[square]

I would be interested to read that accident report, do you know which one?