Air Canada cuts 2000 jobs

[Red1]

Ah where will the price of oil go.... is this a bubble or a real push in the price due do to supply and demand issues. I really think very little people know, where the price will go (unless you control the taps). There are so many factors that come into play here: will China, India, Brazil and other developing nations continue to subsidize oil.. can they afford to and for how long? What will rising prices due to the rapid growth seen in these countries, now that there is a growing middle class? Have we hit Peak oil? or is this just another bubble waiting to burst. How much can the consumer continue to absorb before they stop traveling.
Personally I feel that oil is overpriced, but that it will not fall below the $100. Demand is still strong and sadly supply just isn't keeping up. What does this mean for the Aviation industry.. most likely a period of adjustment until people get used to the higher cost of everything. Watch for inflation to be the next big thing to watch out for as well as possible stagflation. What does this mean for Air Canada.. I hope I am wrong, but I can see some very turbulent times ahead with more layoffs if it can't cut cost or raise fares. Everything will depend on the price of oil.

[Hawkerflyer]

Here we go again...an already tough industry to get into and soon it will be flooded with experienced pilots to boot.. If you have a current job as a pilot and are looking elsewere you may want to hold that thought.
I got a 6 month PFO from AC a while back, then was contacted after 1 month and asked to go for a AC medical (Last summer). Told them I was happy with my current position. Glad I did!
So....all you people (bitter pilots) that think fuel prices arn't to blame for the AC bout of lay offs think again....AC was recently so desperate for pilots they had the lowest time requirments for new hires for a major carrier (1000 TT and a Commercial Licence) due to industry demand for commercial travel. Fuel is just to expensive....look at the cost to fill a car. Tell me that does not hurt your wallet! Imagine filling an Airliner! I am not an AC supporter by any means but as I am in the industry I see the cost to fill a jet first hand. Don't use the 2009 contract issues as an excuse. Look at all the major carriers in the US, they have all done the same thing....lay offs due to high fuel costs.
This is a bubble and it will pop. AC will eventually call all their guys back and in another 10 yrs we will be right back in this situation.
Good luck to the fellas at Air Canada.

[Dr. Mcillicuddy]

Its about fiiiiiing time!

[ChallengerDan]

First... I am not a pilot, I don't work for either AC or WJ....
My 2 cents...
I've been laid off from a big corporation before. It sucks. Typically you won't find the same conditions elsewhere. If you do get the 1400$ from unemployment insurance, consider yourself happy, because you are either getting or really close to getting the maximum check available. Now is it enough to pay the bills, probably not. But the same is true about all the employees that are going to get axed.

We used to have concepts of job security up to the early 90s. Talk to anybody that has been in aviation for more than a decade or two and you will notice that job security in aviation never existed. Most have been laid-off once or twice, sometimes more. They made it through somehow. Some waited for recalls, some switched employers... and it happened all over again. This is aviation folks. Get used to it.

For those of you pilots that will lose jobs. Be patient. This company has invested in you for highly expensive training. They wiil call you back. Eventually. Have some sympathy for the CSAs, bag handlers, janitors, drivers, and all the other non highly specialized workers. Unfortunately, these might be seen as a replaceable workforce by some unfriendly management board.
they could contract out the ground work to an outside company, for example (although unlikely considering that pretty much every one is unionized at AC). They will certainly be asked to produce more with less, or/and for less. They don't have the leverage that the pilots have because of the fact mentionned previously. They could have someone else do the work. Remember that in banckruptcy pretty much anything goes.

About unions...
The problem with them is that as you get more and more seniority, some people start losing sight of the big picture, focusing too much on their own picture. Of course, after a few years, you kindda have paid you dues, you deserve recognition, bla bla bla. Probably. But remember that this is a free market economy, not socialism. The corporation is there to offer a return on the investment of the shareholders. It might hurt, but it is the truth.Not to provide you with a enjoyable lifestyle. Ideally it can make both. Take really good care of both shareholders and employees. but the world is not ideal. This is why, when you are not too high on the seniority list, you probably came with this company as a highly motivated and really efficient element. now this is when it is going to hurt even more. It doesn't matter. Period. Where you are on the list is the only thing that matters. So say thank you to the union for the nice conditions they provided for the weekly dues you paid. Continue to the next office where a union official that does not do any work for the company anymore because he made it into the full-time union positions still paid by Aircanada and he will give you the forms you need to get your unemployment money..... Now how is that for fairness?

About beeing a move towards negociations...
They are probably really happy that the events are unfolding the way they are. Are they going to use it? You bet.
But.
Remember where everyone was from 2001 to 2004 (airline-wise). Yep. Bankruptcy, chap 11, creditors protection, whatever the technical name depending on the jurisdiction. In Deep S!it. Most companies asked for re-opening agreemments, employee concessions, wage cuts, etc. For those that did accept some cuts, they surely wouldn't have agreed to any longterm contract. The thinking was: give the company some time to get its stuff together, and then we will get all that we gave away back. So... 3, 4 or 5 year collective aggreements. That would have worked out great with the usual 10 year aviation cycle. Negociations would have happenned while the ball would be rolling.

And then came the "oil spike".

Even though I don't always like what ACE aviation management does, I think they had to do something about the current situation. Reducing capacity is a careful move in the current market status. Nobody is quite sure what tomorrow is going to look like. Preparing themselves for the worst is probably better than watching things go by whithout doing anything. Remember that AC is a big animal. It can't turn on a dime. It has to plan every move very well in advance. They are bracing for the worst and hoping for the best. One could even give them some righteousness and say they are sacrificing a few for the good of the majority. How much in % is 2000 Aircan employees.


And someone was asking how come AC is downsizing while WJ wants to grow... -7% compared to 15%. Well.... These two are different animals. Different business model. WJ also has the advantage of having a really young and efficient fleet. That helps too. They probably have lower labor costs. They might have better fuel hedging strategy. These are some of the things that might explain it. I am no expert, so I can't quantify any of these things. but no need to have a MBA to figure that 15% of westjet's capacity is not much compared to AC's capacity.

Ok... maybe that was a little bit more than 2 cents....



For what it's worth... The corporation that laid me off did call me back. But I declined. I found myself a job with a smaller outfit. Had to make some tough decisions to make ends meet. I had to work hard, for less. It hurted at first. But everybody knows my name where I work now. My efforts are recognized. Try saying that about AC or any big company for that matter.
One year later, financially I am pretty much back where I was a year ago, got to travel, perfected my craft, got some more training. professionally I did a giant leap forward that would not have been possible had I stayed where I was. Not saying that I won't ever go back. But there is some nice possibilities out there. Look for them. Don't think it is the end of the world. Bounce back.... and one day you can go back in an even better position that you are today.




Yes, you can also whine about how unlucky you are, poor you, evil managers, me me me... now what?


That is a choice you make.

Courage.
Regroup.
Act.

Some of the lessons I learned from somebody who had to go too soon...

Good luck to everyone that will be affected by the cuts...

[Kelowna Pilot]

Watch for inflation to be the next big thing to watch out for as well as possible stagflation. What does this mean for Air Canada.. I hope I am wrong, but I can see some very turbulent times ahead with more layoffs if it can't cut cost or raise fares. Everything will depend on the price of oil.

That assessment is bang on, except that stagflation is basically already here.

The other issue, which isn't mentioned as often as oil, is that aviation is environmentally very unfriendly, and governments are really starting to feel the pressure to crack down on polluters due to global warming issues.

Environmental issues and oil costs could be a real 1-2 punch for the industry.

[invertedattitude]

Man the amount of hyped up fear mongering on this board is unreal... yes the sky may be falling right now a little bit I admit, but it seems most people are forgetting one thing:

The population of the world is still growing, and those people have to be able to move around the world somehow, so unless we develop teleportation, airplanes are here to stay for at least our lifetime.

Aviation will stride through these tough times and pull out of them.

Do people really think that the price of oil is so high because we're running out? What the hell do you think everyone just realized this in the last 2 years? We know exactly how much oil is left in known deposits.

The oil in the arctic and completely untapped to date was previously too expensive to take it out, and required a cost of $50/barellel to extract to be economical. Well guess what companies are moving to get that oil flowing now.

The amount of oil left on the planet is not the root cause, it's caused by pure speculation on loss of supply which simply isn't true, driven up by the very people who stand to profit from it all, throw in a little fear of war and terrorism and everyone buys it, at least everyone on this board has fallen for it hook line and sinker....

Ban told reporters in Jeddah on Sunday that Saudi Arabia will "take the necessary measures to stabilize the price of oil," according to a transcript of his remarks. Abdullah "acknowledged that the current oil price is abnormally high, due to speculative factors, and he is willing to do what he can to manage the price of oil to the adequate level," Ban said.

I suppose most of the chicken littles on this board think that on Sept 11th/ 2001 all of sudden the world went "Oh wow we're low on oil" Give me a break, grab a seat, put your backside into it and wait for the storm to pass, and barring another 9/11 event, it will pass.

The real thing you all should be worried about is a 9/11 level attack, with the worlds economy in such a fragile state, this is when Al Qaeda will want to strike to deal a death blow to our economies.

[Stinky]

The population of the world is still growing, and those people have to be able to move around the world somehow, so unless we develop teleportation, airplanes are here to stay for at least our lifetime.

This is exactly the problem. The population is growing exponentially, these people need to eat and have shelter, all of which require a tremendous amount of energy, thus driving up the price of oil. People do not need to travel to survive. Those days are coming to an end.

[Kelowna Pilot]

The amount of oil left on the planet is not the root cause, it's caused by pure speculation on loss of supply which simply isn't true, driven up by the very people who stand to profit from it all, throw in a little fear of war and terrorism and everyone buys it, at least everyone on this board has fallen for it hook line and sinker....

http://peakoil.blogspot.com/

[unregistered]

The population of the world is still growing, and those people have to be able to move around the world somehow, so unless we develop teleportation, airplanes are here to stay for at least our lifetime.

The population, globally, may be increasing - but take a look at what regions of the world are experiencing that growth.

[JAHinYYC]

lets hear what anyone has to say to that?

nothing?

Thats what I thought

Good morning.

You wrote this at 9:15pm. I was in my jammies trying to fall asleep - so I couldn't reply.

I am ready to go now....

The service at AC sucks and sucks big!

Until they address that problem, they are screwed...

Actually, I am going to suggest that you are missing the point.

When someone buys a ticket and gets on an airplane it is to physically go somewhere. Unless things go horribly wrong, the majority of airlines accomplish this with 99.99% dependability.

Whether or not it is comfortable, fun is somewhat tangential. How much you like the experience might determine whether you chose that carrier again or not, provided you have an alternative. If there is only one carrier serving the route - you service quality is irrelevant.

What do you have to say to that. Nothing? (Oh wait I probably caught you in the john...get back to us when you finish).

[JAHinYYC]

Man the amount of hyped up fear mongering on this board is unreal... yes the sky may be falling right now a little bit I admit, but it seems most people are forgetting one thing:

The population of the world is still growing, and those people have to be able to move around the world somehow, so unless we develop teleportation, airplanes are here to stay for at least our lifetime.

With a world population zeroing in on 7 Billion, and less than 50% of that living above the subsistence level the populations of the Western Industrialized nations are actually shrinking owing to low birth rates.

Not to sound elite, but rich people fly. Those scrapping by on subsistance agriculture walk most places.

The population is growing, but not in terms of consumers that can afford to exploit the service that aviation provides.

[Stinky]

Not to sound elite, but rich people fly. Those scrapping by on subsistance agriculture walk most places.

India and China are starting to have a large middle class, they're buying cars, electronics and god forbid, food. All of this requires oil, whether it's in the form of gas for a car, production and shipping of plastic or fertilizer. This creates a demand for oil. The people in these countries are getting richer and north amaericans have less purchasing power as our currencies lose value.
It might be easy to say "No goddamn chinaman is going to eat too much if it means I can't afford to fill up my Escalade" but we will have no choice, they will drive up the price of oil and we will pay the price. Our standard of living needs to drop a lot and theres needs to come up. One way to measure wealth is by consumption of oil, Americans use 25 barrels a year per person while chinese use 2. I predict these numbers will start to come together.
I know it's our god given right to drive SUV's, fly across the globe for next to nothing and buy cheap foreign goods from slaves working for 5 cents a day. But that's life.

[Kelowna Pilot]

Not to sound elite, but rich people fly.

Some analysts are suggesting that in the very near future, that's going to be the way it's going to be in the Western countries.

Aviation is going to be like it was in the past, when basically only the very rich could afford to fly.

[Doc]

JAHinYYC brings up an interesting point. Here's another. Three billion people on this planet live on LESS than TWO dollars a day. 40,000 children DIE every day due to starvation/malnutrition illnesses. One percent of the population controls Ninety-nine percent of the wealth. Do you really think, that on a "global" scale, it really matters if the odd "rich" country's airline has to lay off a few people? There are bigger "fish" to fry here.

[yycflyguy]

everybody still seems to missing the point...

The service at AC sucks and sucks big!

Until they address that problem, they are screwed...

lets hear what anyone has to say to that?

nothing?

Thats what I thought

Here is a quick look at the awards for Air Canada over the past 10 years. I suggest you re-evaluate what you look for in an airline.

Air Canada Awards


January 2007
Air Canada voted 'Best Airline in North America' and 'Best Air line in Canada' by the readers of the U.S. magazine Global Traveler.

December 2006
Air Canada voted 'Best Business Class to Canada' by the readers of the U.S. magazine, Business Traveler.
enRoute, Air Canada's inflight publication was named Best Travel Magazine at the recently announced NATJA (North American Travel Journalists' Association) Awards. In total, enRoute received four citations at this year's awards, including

Culinary Travel (article), First Prize: "Hawaii Five-0-0-0 Calories" by Charlene Rooke (November 2005);
Destination Travel: International (article), .-up: "Modern Armenia" by Tracey Eaton (November 2006);
Leisure Activity (article), .-up: "The Toast of Paris" by Marc-Olivier Bherer (February 2006).

Pure Canada, a Spafax publication for the Canadian Tourism Commission won two .-up citations, both in the leisure category.
August 2005
enRoute, our award-winning in-flight magazine and onAir, our e-zine for people on the go, were winners of Magnum Opus awards, a professional awards program dedicated solely to honouring the best in custom publications of all types.

In the Editorial category, enRoute was awarded:
- Silver for Best Interview or Profile (Tom Green, by James Martin, April 2004);
- Silver for Best Overall Editorial (November 2004 - food issue);
- Bronze for Best Signed Editorial/Essay (Death of Cool by Tim Taylor, January 2004);
- Honourable Mention for Best Interview or Profile (Diana Krall by Simon Houpt, March 2004).

In the category of Magnum Opus Grand Awards - the highest honour available - onAir was awarded Special Recognition for Print Electronic, External Audience.



June 2005
Air Canada was voted the #1 airline in North America in a recent Skytrax survey of more than 12 million air travellers worldwide.

May 2005
Air Canada was awarded the Prix Equinoxe by the Quebec Public Relations Society (SRQ) in the “Best Event Strategy of the Year” category. The award recognizes the positive perception of a new beginning for Air Canada that was generated by last October's employee events. In particular it recognizes the role all employees played in unveiling the new Air Canada to the world as well as the Air Canada team whose work and efforts helped made these events and our brand relaunch such a success.

April 2005
AC was awarded the "Grand Prix 2005, Concours Grand Media" Awards for Media innovation/Celine Dion, You and I campaign. The award recognizes the "You and I" campaigns' innovative media integration - from radio to TV, print advertising, and online.

January 2005
AC was awarded “Best Airline in Canada” by U.S. Global Traveler magazine

April 2004
aircanada.com was named to the top 5 of the 25 best Business to Consumer sites in Quebec. Aircanada.com was given special mention by L'Indice Secor Commerce 2004 for user experience, ease of use and best practices for usability and accessibility

April 11, 2003
Air Canada Wins Honours for Best Frequent Flyer Program and Best Airline Website in International Survey of Air Travellers, Carrier Shortlisted Among Top Four Airlines Worldwide by the Official Airline Guide (OAG)

February, 2003
Air Canada Receives Seven Nominations For OAG Airline Of The Year Awards 2003

February 25, 2003
Air Canada Receives Joyce Fairbairn Award for Literacy Awareness. The "Joycee" was established in 1996 by ABC CANADA to honour outstanding private sector support for literacy

February 2003
Robert Milton and Air Canada honoured for their contribution to the field of Aerospace by Aviation Week and Space Technology, a trade magazine that specializes in Aeronautic information

2003
Nuts & Bolts Airline Team Award (Air Transport Association)

November 22, 2002
Air Canada Voted "Best Business Class To Canada" By Business Traveler Magazine

September 30, 2002
Air Canada Receives Top Industry Awards for In-Flight Entertainment: Best In-Flight Magazine For Two Years Consecutively. enRoute, Air Canada's in-flight magazine, has been judged the top in-flight magazine among the world's airlines, at the 14th Annual AVION Awards for in-flight entertainment by the World Airline Entertainment Association (WAEA) representing over 100 airlines and 300 airline suppliers and related companies

September 2002
AC - World's Safest Airline. (UK-FlightSafe Consultants)

May 15, 2002
Air Canada receives top honours in international survey of air travellers: Best airline in North America and best frequent flyer program. The OAG awards are voted by frequent flyer business travellers from around the world and organized by travel information publisher OAG

April 2002
System Safety Aviation Award (Transport Canada)

March 18, 2002
Air Canada named among top ten airlines in the world and 3rd in North America in "Airline of the Year" survey - a survey conducted by Skytrax Research, based in London, U.K.

February 1, 2002
Air Canada voted 'Best Business Class to Canada 2001' by Business Traveler International

2002
Air Canada Technical Services - Top MRO in Canada, 4th in North America and 9th in the world - Airline Business

September 14, 2001
The 2001 World Airline Entertainment Association's annual Avion Awards named Air Canada to four honors:

Best Inflight Magazine (enRoute)
Best Inflight Entertainment Guide / Within the Magazine
Best Inflight Entertainment Guide / Separate From the Magazine
Best Instructional video
November 29, 2000:
Air Canada voted 'Best Business Class to Canada' by Business Traveler International Magazine

November 14, 2000:
Air Canada's Express Check-In Kiosk honoured with Top Information Technology Award. The airline was presented with the "Best of Show Solution Award" at the 2000 Gala Banquet of the Canadian Information Productivity Awards (CIPA)

November 8, 2000:
enRoute wins 'Best Overall Magazine Design' at New York's Folio:Show. Air Canada's enRoute Magazine has won three gold Ozzie Awards at this year's 14th annual Folio:Show in New York City

September 11, 2000:
UK-based FlightSafe Consultants Ltd named Air Canada 'World's Safest Airlines'. According to an independent study undertaken by air safety specialists, UK-based FlightSafe Consultants Ltd, Air Canada received top ranking in an analysis of more than 500 airlines using ten management and environment criteria

July 24, 2000:
Air Canada's Express Check-In kiosk honoured at the 9th Annual Canadian Information Productivity Awards for Excellence

February 21, 2000:
Air Canada honoured with the 'Internet World Impact Award' at the 6th Annual Internet World Canada 2000 Conference in Toronto

December 1, 1999:
Air Canada voted 'Best Airline for Travel to Canada' by Business Traveler International Magazine for the eighth consecutive year

October 21, 1999:
enRoute Magazine takes Top honours at International Magazine Design Competition at the 13th Annual Folio:Show Celebration of Excellence Awards Gala in New York City

September 30, 1999:
Air Canada's premium class wine cellar was ranked third in the world at the Business Traveler International Magazine 'Cellars in the Sky' business class wine judging

September 20, 1999:
Air Canada wins gold at International Travel Advertising competition

February 5, 1999:
Air Canada chosen 'Best Airline for Travel to Canada' by Business Traveler International Magazine

January 27, 1999:
Air Canada voted 'Best Passenger Service Airline In The World' by Air Transport World Magazine (ATW)

January 19, 1999:
Air Canada voted 'Best North American Domestic Airline' at the 1999 OAG (Official Airline Guide) Airline of the Year Awards

March 11, 1998
Air Canada wins air Cargo Carrier of the Year award in the IFW freighting industry awards

[stratcat]

All the Air Canada awards, its funny. What about government bail outs? What about customer service? Its terrible.That comment about go ask the employees, I know some that have quit Air Canada and went either to Westjet or back to their old companies. Sounds like a real dream job doesnt it? I like so many got PFOd from AC. (took 2 months to find out, not the 6 or even a year some people had to wait).I dont speak french. Just English. Im not female. Maybe I didnt do good on their stupid tests. I dont know and I dont care really.I do know that I had a lot better experience than a lot of people I know who did get on there. I also know a lot of good people that got the PFO. It makes you wonder that if good people are getting turned away because they dont fit "the mold", what is the overall mentality of upper management. All I can say is Thank You Air Canada for not hiring me. Air Canada is one of the worst run organizations in Canada. It is being torn apart from inside out, and I am truly thankful to not to be part of that. To the pilots there, good luck. We all feel for you and if the axe comes there is a lot of work overseas that pays a hell of a lot better that what you make starting there, youll be okay. To the hiring department and upper management, I hope you sink, and I hope that the taxpayers are not required to start flipping the bill. Westjet can run a successful business, why cant you?

[MrWings]

People do not need to travel to survive. Those days are coming to an end.

The union should be promoting Islam throughout North America.

Guaranteed Hajj trips will keep those planes flying.

[stratcat]

You would have to have about 20 air marshalls on board.

[yycflyguy]

All the Air Canada awards, its funny. What about government bail outs? What about customer service? Its terrible.That comment about go ask the employees, I know some that have quit Air Canada and went either to Westjet or back to their old companies. Sounds like a real dream job doesnt it? I like so many got PFOd from AC. (took 2 months to find out, not the 6 or even a year some people had to wait).I dont speak french. Just English. Im not female. Maybe I didnt do good on their stupid tests. I dont know and I dont care really.I do know that I had a lot better experience than a lot of people I know who did get on there. I also know a lot of good people that got the PFO. It makes you wonder that if good people are getting turned away because they dont fit "the mold", what is the overall mentality of upper management. All I can say is Thank You Air Canada for not hiring me. Air Canada is one of the worst run organizations in Canada. It is being torn apart from inside out, and I am truly thankful to not to be part of that. To the pilots there, good luck. We all feel for you and if the axe comes there is a lot of work overseas that pays a hell of a lot better that what you make starting there, youll be okay. To the hiring department and upper management, I hope you sink, and I hope that the taxpayers are not required to start flipping the bill. Westjet can run a successful business, why cant you?

Most of those awards I posted ARE for customer service.

Perhaps it was your lack of corporate knowledge that prevented you from being hired. Air Canada has been a fully private company since 1989 and if anything, has been handicapped by the Canadian government with the forced merger with Canadian. There are lots of threads on this topic so I wont go into it, but try the search function.

It is unlikely that pilots will be furloughed at this point as the number they are saying (~120) is pretty close to what retirements are expected over the next 12 months. Looks like status quo only to me.

Lots of my buddies are at Westjet and I only wish them the best. Your personal vendetta against the company that didn't hire you only further erodes what should be a brotherhood of respect and support amongst our ranks. FYI - I dont speak french either so stop looking to point blame as to why you weren't selected.

[neophyte]

How can the government make you buy and airline if you are a private entity? Either the argument doesn't make sense, or there is more going on behind the scenes that you and I don't know. (Yes, I used the search function)

[square]

Oh lordy Kelowna Pilot, search your post history, you must've made 100 of the same exact posts in a row. Yes, oil is a non-renewable resource, it's been a well known fact for generations. And no, the price per barrel is not a reflection of the cost per barrel, this is not the "beginning of the end." We have oil for another 40 or 50 years. All that your scared little mission is accomplishing here is in convincing people, just a little bit, that they can get away with charging more and more for gas, to accept lower and lower salaries and to doubt that they'll be able to become pilots after all. And it's all false. What we need is energy. Energy does not mean oil. There are a plethora of potential sources of energy, hydro, solar, nuclear, wind, etc. And all the while better engineering creates more efficient products that require less energy for a given task. The 787, Prius, etc are the obvious of numerous examples. And even then we don't have an energy crisis, we have people rolling in cash from overcharging at the pumps. Look at the oil sands where they're making so much money they can pay truck drivers 150k, or Venezuela, where it costs a couple dollars to fill up your tank. And what's more, the timing of climate change coming together with the future decreasing oil supply is a very happy coincidence, environmental risks put pressures on business and the public to improve technology, reduce oil consumption and pursue other energy sources. We don't even need oil.

[Stinky]

We don't even need oil.

I think this is a little overly pessimistic, it makes some interesting points.
Taken from this website. http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/SecondPage.html


"Can't We Use a Combination of

the Alternatives to Replace Oil?"





Absolutely. Despite their individual shortcomings, it is still possible for the world economy to run on a basket of alternative sources of energy - so long as we immediately get all of the following:



Need #1. A few dozen technological breakthroughs;



Need #2. An unprecedented degree political will, honesty, and bipartisan cooperation;



Need #3. Tremendous international collaboration;



Need #4. Massive amounts of investment capital;



Need #5. Fundamental reforms to the banking system;



Need #6. No interference or obfuscation from the oil industry



Need #7. About 25-50 years of general peace and prosperity to retrofit the world's $45 trillion dollar per year economy including transportation and telecommunication networks, manufacturing industries, agricultural systems, universities, hospitals, etc. , to run on these new source of energy.



Need #8. Rational and non-corrupt elected officials and capable government appointees to manage the generation long transition.



If we get all of the above, we might be able to get the energy equivalent of 3-5 billion barrels of oil per year from alternative sources.



That's a tremendous amount of oil - about as much as the entire world used per year during the 1950s, but it's nowhere near enough to keep our currently mammoth-sized yet highly volatile global economic system going. The world currently requires over 30 billion barrels/1.2 trillion gallons of oil per year to support economic growth. That requirement will only increase as time goes on due to population growth, debt servicing, and the industrialization of nations such as China and India.



So even if the delusionally optimistic 9-step scenario described above is somehow miraculously manifested, we're still facing a 70-90% reduction in the amount of energy available to us. A 70-90% reduction would be extremely painful, but not the "end of the world" if it wasn't for the fact that, as explained above, the monetary system will collapse in the absence of a constantly increasing energy supply. If a shortfall between demand and supply of 5% is enough to send prices up by 400%, what to you think a shortfall of 70-90% is going to do?



To make matters worse, even if the all of the above obstacles are assumed away, we are still faced with the problem of "economic doubling time." If the economy grows at a healthy clip of 3.5% per year, it doubles in size every 20 years. That growth must be fueled by an energy supply that doubles just as quickly. Thus, our total "energy debt" will have compounded itself by the time we have made any major strides in switching to alternative sources of energy.

[North Shore]

We don't even need oil.

No? Then why are we paying ~$140/bbl for it, and burning ~1000bbl a second? Without oil our economies are in deep sh!t.

The most valuable use is in agricultural applications - fertiliser and mechanization - both have increased crop yields drastically - and that feeds us all.

And, funnily enough, high prices are exactly what we need to stimulate interest and research into the possibility of alternatives. Few people cared about solar/wind/nuclear power prior to the oil Crunch of the '70's - now we are back in the same boat, and it's deja-vu all over again. For that interest to be sustained, we need prices to remain high.

[bcflyer]

All the Air Canada awards, its funny. What about government bail outs?

Not this again... Please show me the last time the government bailed out A/C. Written proof please not just cause you say they did. Since you think the government has helped out, it must be a matter of public record right?

I hope you sink, and I hope that the taxpayers are not required to start flipping the bill. Westjet can run a successful business, why cant you?

First off they are two completely different airlines. One is a one type, one class, domestic only, with about 75 planes. The other has 4 types, flies internationally to 240 destinations, offers business class, and has about 340 planes. Secondly, have a look at the Air Canada particpation act. The government has made sure that it's not exactly a level playing field. As someone else has already mentioned, your hatred for A/C is pretty obvious.. Did you hate them this much before they PFO'd you?

[Tim Tam]

All the Air Canada awards, its funny. What about government bail outs? What about customer service? Its terrible.That comment about go ask the employees, I know some that have quit Air Canada and went either to Westjet or back to their old companies. Sounds like a real dream job doesnt it? I like so many got PFOd from AC. (took 2 months to find out, not the 6 or even a year some people had to wait).I dont speak french. Just English. Im not female. Maybe I didnt do good on their stupid tests. I dont know and I dont care really.I do know that I had a lot better experience than a lot of people I know who did get on there. I also know a lot of good people that got the PFO. It makes you wonder that if good people are getting turned away because they dont fit "the mold", what is the overall mentality of upper management. All I can say is Thank You Air Canada for not hiring me. Air Canada is one of the worst run organizations in Canada. It is being torn apart from inside out, and I am truly thankful to not to be part of that. To the pilots there, good luck. We all feel for you and if the axe comes there is a lot of work overseas that pays a hell of a lot better that what you make starting there, youll be okay. To the hiring department and upper management, I hope you sink, and I hope that the taxpayers are not required to start flipping the bill. Westjet can run a successful business, why cant you?

You crack me up Stratcat. Why did you waste THEIR time if you thought they were such a sh*tty company?? Me thinks it is your sense of entitlement that just may have turned them off of you.

I think you really DO care why they didn't hire you. Heck I would be, so I can learn how to stop being such a jackass in the future.

All the best bud.