BCIT Airline and Flight Ops Program

[Kesar Nizzar]

Hi there everyone.

I've been looking at ways to obtain my CPL and Multi-IFR, and this BCIT program has really stuck out of the page, for some reason.
I just thought I'd ask your guys' opinion as well on this program.

Pros, cons, alternate options?

Thanks.

[altiplano]

If you think you need a really structured environment to learn to fly this might work well.

Some people can't get things done unless they are given a due date and a report card. I guess it really depends on what you want and need to get it done...

[E-Flyer]

Hi there everyone.

I've been looking at ways to obtain my CPL and Multi-IFR, and this BCIT program has really stuck out of the page, for some reason.
I just thought I'd ask your guys' opinion as well on this program.

Pros, cons, alternate options?

Thanks.

Kesar,

Try to get your PPL after you complete your glider's with the cadets.

There's no need for you to go to bcit or any other institution for that matter. You're a smart kid, get your gliders, ppl, cpl and ifr with multi rating all by the time you finish high school. You're planning on doing it in 64 weeks anyway, so why not do it starting now? That way, you can spend more valuable time going to a college or university and study what ever that appeals to you. You won't need it, but some people like to go and expand their knowledge in certain areas. That's up to you though.

What I'm getting at is that you're going to be spending 45 grand on the bcit program in less than a year, why not start now right? the money is obviously there since you're looking to pay that much in a short time span.

Imagine you being a CPL/MIFR by the time you come out of high school or in the summer after grad. It'll be a great feeling as you'll be ahead of most people in your grad class who will mainly be unsure of what they want to do as a career. You'll be just like another newb in the aviation industry though. But it's definitely nice to have your education done at the same time as your high school education. It's possible !

Alti, i agree with you - if people are around in the boundary bay area, it makes me laugh when guys are sent over from overseas wearing 1 bar on their shoulders. They take such pride in it as well. I have a professional attire for the purpose of the flight. Sometimes i go fancy, and sometimes i go more relaxed. Still rather professional, no need for pilot uniform commanding a cessna.

I understand the argument of the colleges too though, they are trying to teach their pilots how to appear professional. Fair enough, but i doubt most of those guys will even have pilot shirts for their first c208 job flying banana's around. Just something to think about, there's a lot of manipulation in this industry, and make sure you don't fall into one. That being said, there are many schools you will want to stay away from as well. Every side has it's pro's and con's. See which one appeals to you.

[square]

The BCIT uniform does not have epaulets, it's a white shirt with a tie, oh dear god. It is not for people who "can't get things done" or for people who have some special needs. The passing requirements are higher for all regulatory exams, 70% on writtens and flight tests. Undisciplined students do not make it through, there's about a 65% percent completion rate.

What it is is an opportunity to learn a lot more about many topics in aviation than you would not otherwise be exposed to in your training. I'll give some examples. You have a class in aircraft maintenance & engineering where you actually do the more challenging things under elementary maintenance. BCIT has a long-standing AME school there with a whole whack of airplanes including a 737 and a Falcon you get to do a run up on. You change the brakes and tires, open up an engine to change oil/filters/gaskets and do compression tests on the cylinders. The teacher is a retired Air Canada maintenance manager with about 40 years of experience and he'll give you a tour of the North and South AC hangars at YVR where you can check out the wrechers doing a D check on the heavy metal. There are classes in risk management and CRM with an Air Canada training pilot who's on the 767 flight line. He'll take you on a tour of the Air Canada sim facility, let a couple guys fly the full-motion sim (it's huge!) and to the Beaver to buy him a few pitchers. There's a class in advanced systems where you'll actually learn how pressurization systems work, how to read the block diagrams that systems are all explained with, how the gear on the Citation works, etc. He'll take you to one of the private hangars to tour the falcon and meet the corporate guys. There's a class in ATC where you'll go more indepth on airspace, how the controllers do their job, the technology, etc, and you'll get to see the Vancouver Area Control Centre that controls the IFR aircraft across the province, and you'll also go up to the tower at YVR, see how they work and hang out on the catwalk. That teacher is the recently retired tower manager of YVR. You have a class with Pete Shewring, who runs a lot of the operation at AeroCourse, and he'll teach you basically whatever he wants, I think it's basically the IATRA course they have plus a bunch of his stories from being the Ops Manager of an old jet charter business he had. They have a 4 week IFR groundschool with a CFI who also has 40 years experience teaching the stuff, a pretty critical course on challenging material that you won't have an opportunity to get privately. You also do about twice the normal groundschool.;

It was a very good way to do your training. You start out with 23 other students who are all at the same point in their training as you are, so you'll make good friends and learn more, and more easily, working together with them. If you have a good work ethic and the money for it. Expect about 60k all up. There's a lot of aviation colleges in Canada, I hear Selkirk is also pretty good, but they're all a little different. I've only been to the one, but I do know that BCIT is different in that it has more courses in aviation as a business, so you'll learn about the financial side of airlines as well: how they measure revenue (yield, RPMs, etc) and how they get startup loans and plan a business. Some of those classes weren't very useful, but they're just to get an idea of what the beancounters are doing. Hnd how to develop a Safety Management System I found interesting. It's all relevant to your career, so I have to disagree with E-Flyer that "you can spend more valuable time" going to a college or university. What would be better to learn about than aviation? You'll get a diploma, which will help you get jobs. Not so much in the Air Taxi level of ops, but the commuters, corporate guys and airlines really like to see it.

[Krashman]

Square has a point.

It sure is nice having a guy walk into an operation that has some idea what a turbine engine, hydraulic system or pressrization system looks like and how it works. Although it won't really carry any more clout when your looking for that first job... Those guys sure stand out in a ground school with guys that just did the bare minimum to finish CPL abd MIFR.

You do need to evaluate yourself honestly to know if you can complete your flying in a 'self study environment'. Its not for everyone... but then again neither is the college program.

[E-Flyer]

there's about a 65% percent completion rate.

I wonder why, they make it seem easy for all high school grads to become pilot's. The casual confused 18 year old will be like, oh shit, what am i gonna do in my life. Ding, a light comes from the sky and they go and try to become pilot's. This isn't a job for everybody which you and I are very much acknowledged of. I do agree how the BCIT program has some pro's, but it also has con's. But then again, we all know this applies to other colleges and schools as well.

you'll get a diploma, which will help you get jobs.

I'm not going to flame away on how the whole education/no education concept works in the industry. It has been well explained and fought about in other topics. It's like politics lol, this discussion will never come down to a solution. These days it's all about who you know, when you know them, and at what place you are in the industry. I'm sure you've seen prime examples of that. So if networking is the key to this industry, aside from all the regulars of personality, experience, etc, the BCIT program would be a great place to make 23 friends; thus, after the 65% completion rate, would leave you with 14 friends being able to help you out for job's.

But to give you a comparison Kesar, I am friends with, and not just "know" more than 14 people at my flight school. All career oriented which have in their own share given me stronger connections. One of which has lined me up with a pretty good job for the summer which will open up many opportunities. See? it's all about your personality. If you got a personality that people like to work with, it doesn't matter if you wear a uniform or shorts. People will like you and will help you out in the industry as a "connection" one day. And so will you.

Generally, pilot's are people who have loved to fly since they were really young. When one wants to get into the industry, they know nothing about it. They generally think it's that perfect job where chicks dig you and money is great. We've all been there at one time. What happens is that many times, when one wants to get into the industry they want to do it the 'all-pilot' way. The nice shirt, the black pants, dress shoes, raybans, and the nice hair cut. This has alone fooled many people to believe that the place they are training at is the best place on earth. It may very well be, but it may also not be.

So Kesar, what I'm trying to say is that do your share of research. BCIT can be a great place for the right person, make sure you fit that category. I still say go and finish your education (flying) beside your ministry education (high school). Then when you graduate, go and get a aviation degree if you agree with square's comment about education. It will beat the diploma BCIT gives you.

But do your research, ask around, search the internet, remember ACA isn't the only place on earth; as a pilot, you have to be willing to relocate. Take that into consideration as it will expand different airline opportunities for you to fly 4. Don't trust what me or square say. Do what you think is right, that's what you will be doing anyway when you fly that 737 lol, decision making.

Good Luck

[square]

Your training is not about networking, it's about learning.

[just curious]

Have to echo that. A network of 205.6 hour friends doesn't lead to prospective job info.

[SQ]

Your training is not about networking, it's about learning.

so true

Have to echo that. A network of 205.6 hour friends doesn't lead to prospective job info.

so fucking true; in general those friends forget you past the door when leaving for greener pasture

[V1 Rotate]

I taught PPLs to one class of the BCIT / PFC program and was overall impressed with the whole thing. This was a few years back, so hopefully it has further improved.
They do things right, such as encouraging the students to take the planes on long trips. They do have a standard, which if you don't meet you will be turfed. At most other schools, that is just dependent on your bank account.

[E-Flyer]

Your training is not about networking, it's about learning.

I agree, it's definitely about learning. What I was trying to imply is that there also ways other than the institution/college way to learn. Networking comes from both of those sources. Those 200 hour guys won't help you with jobs, but chances are they will 5-6 years from now. Sorry for not making that clear.

I agree with Just Curious about the 200 hr remark. Again, was implying later on

SQ I don't know if I can agree with that remark. I've seen how friends from long time ago have helped their fellow mates out. Maybe the trick is to actually keep in touch

V1, yes and the reason I told Kesar to research is to make sure that if he chooses to take an alternative route than the BCIT program, he would ensure that he won't get into such a FTU/ College Program where money is the deciding factor of one's presence. I already have 2 school's in mind in the lower mainland.

Again, I'm putting my 2 cents out there, I'm not any airline or high end senior pilot. I'm only 18 with most of my qualifications completed. Still have to finish the multi.


Good Luck Kesar ! Keep researching

[blndgy]

Having been an insider of the program in the past, I think the program is being run as well as any other. I know that if I were to visit a well-known large regional carrier at YVR, I would recognize almost 90% of the pilots there...all who've come through the BCIT program. In this small, tight-knit industry, it's often who you know; I believe the GM of the program there, being an ex-chair of ATAC and highly regarded in aviation, is a respected conduit for potential employment.

I'm still in the industry, now working in a linear capacity with a high-level executive of the aforementioned airline and he does regard many grads of this program very highly. With the risk of being chastised for saying this, there is resentment from some out there who've did it "their way"; some of this due to perhaps jealousy or maybe not being selected for entrance into the program. I do wish that every single person who wants to fly succeeds, regardless of path taken and for the success of aviation as a whole.

[Kelowna Pilot]

With the risk of being chastised for saying this, there is resentment from some out there who've did it "their way"; some of this due to perhaps jealousy or maybe not being selected for entrance into the program.

It's attitudes like this why some companies try to avoid the so-called 'community college boys'. The false elitism can be really quite staggering at times.

It doesn't really matter where you go to school. If the industry is hot when you graduate, like it has been for the last couple years, you should be able to find some kind of entry level job regardless of where you did your training.

If the industry is in a down swing when you graduate, like it appears to starting now, then a whole different set of variables come into play.

[E-Flyer]

I just think just like with any other job, be nice, respectful, polite, and the right doors will open up at the right time. Because it is those kind of qualities that make people want to work with you. Experience, knowledge, and all that other stuff to actually perform the task is important, but we have all heard that storey about how the "Captain was an ass." No matter how smart, if you're an ass people won't like you.

I agree with kelowna, and . once said a quote along the same lines, as long as you have that license, it doesn't matter where u came from.

[Kesar Nizzar]

Thanks all, for all this information. I've yet to make many decisions, and will definitely take all of this into consideration.
It's nice knowing there's people out there who like to help out this way.

Cheers

[basher]

Deleted

[altiplano]

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[square]

You're right altiplano, you spend 8 hours a day learning nothing for 16 months straight. You can learn everything from this or that book, what are you stupid? It's an utter waste of time to listen to senile retirees and big dumb airline pilots. Unless you're some kind of loser who can't figure anything out on his own, in which case you should just quit now. QED.

[altiplano]

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[E-Flyer]

The actual learning does come from the job. Alti, you're right

[basher]

Deleted

[E-Flyer]

at 3 mile vis and heavy rain LOL

[Cat Driver]

deleted

[bose]

i am happy i learn to use quote button but not happy because mr cat driver lie

bose, I'll make you a promise.

If I ever post in the flight training forum again once this thread is finished I will quit posting in the rest of Avcanada, which I imagine would make a lot of the members here happy as hell.

There you go bose.....this part of Avcanada is Cat Driver free from now on....this must be a red letter day for a lot here.

[E-Flyer]

i am happy i learn to use quote button but not happy because mr cat driver lie

bose, I'll make you a promise.

If I ever post in the flight training forum again once this thread is finished I will quit posting in the rest of Avcanada, which I imagine would make a lot of the members here happy as hell.

There you go bose.....this part of Avcanada is Cat Driver free from now on....this must be a red letter day for a lot here.

Why even think about it you guys ? life's too short to sit and bash on each other over the internet. Get out there and improve your job or something more valuable rather than sitting here and being miserable.

If you guys got something to say or positive to add which won't hurt anyone, I'm all eyes. Otherwise, it's probably best to keep it off of the forums.

Cat - I'm sure you have a lot of things to do aside from avcanada Keep it up and maybe think twice b4 posting. I know I've made some mistakes in the past too, but we all do.

Good Luck to ya'll.