training at SATC and/or fly right

[new_pilot]

Would love to hear any feedback from students who have trained or are training at either Springbank Air Training College and/or Fly Right. Feel free to pm me.

Thanks!

[ticasse]

Went to fly right once to rent an aircraft. The lady there was so rude I got out of there pretty fast. I think she didn't like my accent. Their rates were also higher than SATC. SATC looked like a friendly place and well organised school. Never actually trained in any of them just my impressions.

[Wacko]

When I called around SB I found that it's pretty hard to book an instructor/aircraft. At the time... it was something like a 2 weeks ahead type thing... mind you, I never actually did any training there so I can't really say. They did just recently put out an ad for new instructors... *shrug*

As for FR... I don't think anyone here is going to tell you that (edit/Lil:no names) is a tactful person. She has an image of what a person flying should know and she will literally break you down (like in the military) until you're pretty much a clean slate. I have no doubt in my mind that if/when you're done going through her training you're going to react better under pressure, etc... but I don't think there's too many people that actually go through her regiment. It literally is military training. The thing that's going to blow your mind, if you chose to fly with her, is that she will be the sweetest person (and she is) until you get in the plane

[FlaplessDork]

SATC has had a bit of a reputation with maintenance, and CADORS. Radio's not working, blowing airspace, etc. The new CFI is changing that.

FR as mentioned above. Picked up alot of students from her. Have to have the right personality to deal with her. She's made grown men cry.

[goldwing]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

[FlaplessDork]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

[200hr Wonder]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

Care to prove that?

SATC has had a major overhaul in the past three months and is getting better. 3 planes with new engines and maintenance getting done right. The new CFI is shaping up things as well. Depending on when you want to train there can be lots of openings.

Fly Right is good if you can handle her, she knows her stuff for sure, but it is her way or the highway. Some thrive or some die if you go there and find that you conflict with her, get out fast before you live to regret it.

Morgan Air, did my instructor rating there a few years back so can't comment on staff as all have moved on but do know that the international landing fee can add substantially to the cast. $40 per now I think and your average PPL will be done in 30 flights minimum say, so that is an extra $1200.

[Strega]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

Care to prove that?

SATC has had a major overhaul in the past three months and is getting better. 3 planes with new engines and maintenance getting done right. The new CFI is shaping up things as well. Depending on when you want to train there can be lots of openings.

Fly Right is good if you can handle her, she knows her stuff for sure, but it is her way or the highway. Some thrive or some die if you go there and find that you conflict with her, get out fast before you live to regret it.

Morgan Air, did my instructor rating there a few years back so can't comment on staff as all have moved on but do know that the international landing fee can add substantially to the cast. $40 per now I think and your average PPL will be done in 30 flights minimum say, so that is an extra $1200.

wow, now theres a catch phrase!

[200hr Wonder]

wow, now theres a catch phrase!

What that gasp maintenance has improved at a place? Do you have anything substantial to add or are you just trolling again?

[silverwings]

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

OK, so someone can not add, but here are the actual CADORS numbers for each school straight from Transport Canada, for the last year.

Calgary Flying Club- 15
Springbank Aero- 5
SATC- 7
Mount Royal-4
Fly Right-0

The better school really has nothing to do with CADORS, but more to do with individual needs. SATC really does have shity customer service, but that is because they have that professional program, and that is what their focus is. They set aside the majority of their bookings for this program, so it is hard to book if you are not in it. If you are in that program, it is customer service all the way, they will even come pick you up at your house and drive you out for the lessons. So if you are wanting commercial training, may be a good option, but not really for just "hobby" training. Maintenance is good there, but not due to CFI involvement, more because of a change in the Ops manager. Just go look at their aircraft if you are not sure, you can see some are rough around the edges, but most look almost brand new, and a few have new engines as well, so if you are that concerned with maintenance, just book in the nice ones!!

The club is who focuses on "hobby" training. They have nice aircraft, some are brand new/yearish old. They charge allot for the training/fleet upgrade/fees, but if you are not concerned with money, like most people who do this as a hobby, they are a great option.

Springbank Aero- They focus on their fractional ownership people mainly. If you have money to burn and want to buy a share in a plane, go there. Airplanes are in great shape, great avionics. Again, not really the school for Professional training, but still a good school.

Lastly, Fly Right- This is the place for the most professional training for professional pilots. There is lots of post already on this school, what makes it good, or what makes it bad, but I can guarantee that a commercial pilot coming out of that school is going to know 10X more than a commercial students at any other school. Now do you really need to know all that stuff to get a job? Not really, but you are going to look really good if you go into an interview and know more about IFR than the person interviewing you, which is entirely possible. Airplanes are nearly perfect, great Avionics. If you buy yourself a plane that is way out of your league, this is the place to go too!!

So that is Springbank in a nutshell!!!

[_dwj_]

SATC really does have shity customer service, but that is because they have that professional program, and that is what their focus is. They set aside the majority of their bookings for this program

I did some training at SATC 2 years ago and my experience was very different (although perhaps things have changed since then). Their customer service was excellent and everyone who worked there was very friendly and helpful. I also never had any problem getting a booking - lots of free slots a week ahead whereas CFC you had to wait over a month. I wasn't on their program - I just needed a couple of lessons to get current. The only thing that let them down was the slightly crappy condition of the planes, but it sounds like they are addressing that. Also, because they are right at the far south end of the airport you have a LOT of taxiing no matter which runway you're using.

[Strega]

SATC really does have shity customer service, but that is because they have that professional program, and that is what their focus is. They set aside the majority of their bookings for this program

I did some training at SATC 2 years ago and my experience was very different (although perhaps things have changed since then). Their customer service was excellent and everyone who worked there was very friendly and helpful. I also never had any problem getting a booking - lots of free slots a week ahead whereas CFC you had to wait over a month. I wasn't on their program - I just needed a couple of lessons to get current. The only thing that let them down was the slightly crappy condition of the planes, but it sounds like they are addressing that. Also, because they are right at the far south end of the airport you have a LOT of taxiing no matter which runway you're using.

Where is TCCA?

Is it not the regulators job to ensure an operators aircraft meet standards?

For the record, 200hr wonder,I would rather fly behind a high time engine that was overhauled by a reputable shop (ie Mattituck, Penn Yan etc) than a freshly overhauled engine that was done by Tim bobs engines in his garage....This is why I made my jab about the engines being "new" --- From what I know of the owner, Im sure the engines were done by the latter.

[timbob]

Strega...I do not rebuild engines in my garage!!
I do it in buddy's garage

[200hr Wonder]

For the record, 200hr wonder,I would rather fly behind a high time engine that was overhauled by a reputable shop (ie Mattituck, Penn Yan etc) than a freshly overhauled engine that was done by Tim bobs engines in his garage....This is why I made my jab about the engines being "new" --- From what I know of the owner, Im sure the engines were done by the latter.

Well then you don't know much. The "new" engines where overhauled at a reputable shop that I would sit behind anyone of there engines at any given day.

[Strega]

Strega...I do not rebuild engines in my garage!!
I do it in buddy's garage

lol
Sorry I didnt realize there was a member here with the name Tim Bob! I wasnt trying to poke fun at you.

[Strega]

For the record, 200hr wonder,I would rather fly behind a high time engine that was overhauled by a reputable shop (ie Mattituck, Penn Yan etc) than a freshly overhauled engine that was done by Tim bobs engines in his garage....This is why I made my jab about the engines being "new" --- From what I know of the owner, Im sure the engines were done by the latter.

Well then you don't know much. The "new" engines where overhauled at a reputable shop that I would sit behind anyone of there engines at any given day.

on what basis do you make this decision? How many engines have you personally had overhauled?

[Hedley]

engines where overhauled at a reputable shop

um ... fwiw any FTU is going to have an OC and is thus
going to have it's maintenance performed by an AMO
(either their own AMO, or someone else's AMO) IAW
their MCM.

Therefore, any engine overhaul for a (commercially
registered) FTU aircraft is going to have it's engine
overhauled by an approved AMO.

If someone has a problem with a specific AMO,
take your detailed complaints to transport - don't
waste your time throwing rocks on an anonymous
website

[200hr Wonder]

For the record, 200hr wonder,I would rather fly behind a high time engine that was overhauled by a reputable shop (ie Mattituck, Penn Yan etc) than a freshly overhauled engine that was done by Tim bobs engines in his garage....This is why I made my jab about the engines being "new" --- From what I know of the owner, Im sure the engines were done by the latter.

Well then you don't know much. The "new" engines where overhauled at a reputable shop that I would sit behind anyone of there engines at any given day.

on what basis do you make this decision? How many engines have you personally had overhauled?

I have personally flown behind about 20+ of engines from that overhaul shop on 15+ aircraft at at least 3 different FTUs from low time to on condition.

[Strega]

engines where overhauled at a reputable shop

um ... fwiw any FTU is going to have an OC and is thus
going to have it's maintenance performed by an AMO
(either their own AMO, or someone else's AMO) IAW
their MCM.

Therefore, any engine overhaul for a (commercially
registered) FTU aircraft is going to have it's engine
overhauled by an approved AMO.

If someone has a problem with a specific AMO,
take your detailed complaints to transport - don't
waste your time throwing rocks on an anonymous
website

Hedley I agree with you and uderstand the engine must be done by an AMO,
But you must also agree there are differences between the bargin basement overhaul from AMO 1, to a Mattituck Red gold engine.

[Strega]

200 hr wonder,

no one here is disputing that you have flown, What experience do you have with maintaining and or the service of engines?

From the CADOR regarding the SATC and the 4 lost planes, one had an engine failure... would you fly behind this aircraft?

[200hr Wonder]

For the record, 200hr wonder,I would rather fly behind a high time engine that was overhauled by a reputable shop (ie Mattituck, Penn Yan etc) than a freshly overhauled engine that was done by Tim bobs engines in his garage....This is why I made my jab about the engines being "new" --- From what I know of the owner, Im sure the engines were done by the latter.

All I am saying is that the new engines come from a reputable shop, I have flown behind or beside many of there engines and a fresh OH engine from them I trust. Now I agree that is not to say that it may turn to shit really fast due to poor maintenance but that is not what we are discussing. You said SATC uses a crappy overhauler. All I am saying is that the new engines come from a reputable one, not the same one they where using and one that I have had experience with in running there engines.

[IntermCFI]

Today was my last day as CFI at SATC so I will consider this my final act.

SATC has it's issues but what school doesn't?

Unfortunately during my time there I was busy with other jobs as well as this one and didn't have the time to change everything that needed to be changed. The new CFI did a lot to fix the last school I worked at and I'm sure she will do a lot of good at SATC.

The school has been geared lately to the Pro-Program and unfortunately a lot of regulars were neglected due to the lack of instructors and airplanes. The school will be bringing on four new instructors in the next couple of weeks as well as bring back online the RG. Hopefully this will allow for the regular students more time available for training.

As for the maintenance, thanks for the credit 200hr wonder but I had very little to do with that. The new Ops Manager and I were both on the same page, if it is broken fix it. I have to thank everybody in taking a part in trying to bring the fleet back up to standards. I said I was never going to fly in their airplanes, but now I have, and I would continue to fly their fleet of aircraft.

The new engines we originally received were not up to anybody's standards and all three were duds. they were all replaced or fixed until they became acceptable.

I enjoyed my time working at SATC and wish them the best of luck. They have done the hardest thing ever, acknowledge there is a problem and to allow an outsider the opportunity to fix it.

Stephen
Former CFI SATC

[Strega]

Today was my last day as CFI at SATC so I will consider this my final act.

SATC has it's issues but what school doesn't?

Unfortunately during my time there I was busy with other jobs as well as this one and didn't have the time to change everything that needed to be changed. The new CFI did a lot to fix the last school I worked at and I'm sure she will do a lot of good at SATC.

The school has been geared lately to the Pro-Program and unfortunately a lot of regulars were neglected due to the lack of instructors and airplanes. The school will be bringing on four new instructors in the next couple of weeks as well as bring back online the RG. Hopefully this will allow for the regular students more time available for training.

As for the maintenance, thanks for the credit 200hr wonder but I had very little to do with that. The new Ops Manager and I were both on the same page, if it is broken fix it. I have to thank everybody in taking a part in trying to bring the fleet back up to standards. I said I was never going to fly in their airplanes, but now I have, and I would continue to fly their fleet of aircraft.

The new engines we originally received were not up to anybody's standards and all three were duds. they were all replaced or fixed until they became acceptable.

I enjoyed my time working at SATC and wish them the best of luck. They have done the hardest thing ever, acknowledge there is a problem and to allow an outsider the opportunity to fix it.

Stephen
Former CFI SATC

Sounds like a reputable shop to me, It seems my thoughts of the owner indeed are correct.


Stephen,
I applaude you for trying to make things better, in an enviroment such as this one, but I also know nothing will change overnight, and with the constant turnover of people, Im afraid the owners tactics will prevail.

[FlaplessDork]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

Care to prove that?

Was direct from the mouth of Transport. However, Stephen & the new CFI will change that reputation and work on resolving those CADORs.

[MorganAirCFI]

Fly Right the lady is rude, and abusive. I was going to renew my IFR there but after one dealing with her I went to Morgan Air at the International. A friend was doing his Group III IFR through there and the instructors were saying he was good to go for the ride. She came in and basically said he was doing nothing right and would not sign him off. It appears that she tries to get the student to spend more money than is needed. She does have a local reputation. STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the Springbank Air College they use to be okay but lately service has been going downhill. I have also heard about the maintenance issues.

I have had good experiences at Morgan Air.

SATC: Over 25 CADORS within 1 year

Care to prove that?

SATC has had a major overhaul in the past three months and is getting better. 3 planes with new engines and maintenance getting done right. The new CFI is shaping up things as well. Depending on when you want to train there can be lots of openings.

Fly Right is good if you can handle her, she knows her stuff for sure, but it is her way or the highway. Some thrive or some die if you go there and find that you conflict with her, get out fast before you live to regret it.

Morgan Air, did my instructor rating there a few years back so can't comment on staff as all have moved on but do know that the international landing fee can add substantially to the cast. $40 per now I think and your average PPL will be done in 30 flights minimum say, so that is an extra $1200.

Actually, Morgan Air is not much more then at Springbank with the landing fee and we don't tack on 0.2 for pre-flight and post flight briefings or fleet improvement fee's. As for the wait times at CYYC, being an instructor that has instructed out of both airports, I find them comparable. The quality of instruction is what someone should be looking for and not the environment. We here at Morgan Air are committed to quality.