" Haven'T You Figured Out That Canada Is A Giant Scam? "

[Davecameron77]

We work half the year just to pay for taxes and what do we have to show for it?

1. Health Care - sure it's sort of free and maybe you won't die while on the waitlist
2. Education - students don't compare with other nations in aptitude tests, university is bloody expensive anyone will tell you that, most complete school with no preparation for the workforce
3. Infrastructure - is in shambles, traffic is congested in all major cities and public transit cant meet demand
4. Military - even Canadians make fun of the equipment of the military
5. National Debt
6. The attitude that every problem can be solved with a new tax.
7. The fact that everything is taxed.

The point is that what we pay in taxes does not equal the public services we get back. It's a form of legal corruption.

Everyone should have a public sector job because if you don't, you're getting screwed. I'm sure immigrants are thinking twice, thrice, and more when deciding to settle in Canada.

From an email, opinions?

[Adam Oke]

Sure beats The United State of America.

[Dust Devil]

We work half the year just to pay for taxes and what do we have to show for it?

1. Health Care - sure it's sort of free and maybe you won't die while on the waitlist
2. Education - students don't compare with other nations in aptitude tests, university is bloody expensive anyone will tell you that, most complete school with no preparation for the workforce
3. Infrastructure - is in shambles, traffic is congested in all major cities and public transit cant meet demand
4. Military - even Canadians make fun of the equipment of the military
5. National Debt
6. The attitude that every problem can be solved with a new tax.
7. The fact that everything is taxed.

The point is that what we pay in taxes does not equal the public services we get back. It's a form of legal corruption.

Everyone should have a public sector job because if you don't, you're getting screwed. I'm sure immigrants are thinking twice, thrice, and more when deciding to settle in Canada.

From an email, opinions?

Anyone who thinks it's a scam is welcome to leave.

[Adam Oke]

I agree. Or Vote. I am very displeased in the people, more so than the country as the majority do not vote. Approx 30% of my city voted at the polls last. Pathetic. If you want to bitch about the country how about you vote for change? Hell, have a real problem? Run for something. People are so quick to criticize yet do not take action them selves. Have a problem? Take some initiative. If you don't vote, you have no right to bitch.

[bmc]

1. Heath care is not sort of free. It's expensive and you're paying for it. You just don't see the bill. And it's comparatively pathetic.

2. Education is good. Canada always scores well in OECD ratings around the world. Universities are cheap (to Canadian's...not foreigners) compared to USA and UK.


Canada is a socialist country. Always has been. Having extensive social programs cost money.

[Guido]

We work half the year just to pay for taxes and what do we have to show for it?

1. Health Care - sure it's sort of free and maybe you won't die while on the waitlist
2. Education - students don't compare with other nations in aptitude tests, university is bloody expensive anyone will tell you that, most complete school with no preparation for the workforce
3. Infrastructure - is in shambles, traffic is congested in all major cities and public transit cant meet demand
4. Military - even Canadians make fun of the equipment of the military
5. National Debt
6. The attitude that every problem can be solved with a new tax.
7. The fact that everything is taxed.

The point is that what we pay in taxes does not equal the public services we get back. It's a form of legal corruption.

Everyone should have a public sector job because if you don't, you're getting screwed. I'm sure immigrants are thinking twice, thrice, and more when deciding to settle in Canada.

From an email, opinions?

If I had the time and patience to do the research, I think it wouldn't be terribly difficult to refute everyone of those points... however I don't have time, so I'll just do a quick point by point

1. How many people have you known who've died on a waiting list? My impression has been that they do a sort of triage on the waitlists - i.e. if someone needs help right away, they'll get it... less priority is given to scratches versus head wounds, or chest pains, y'know?

2. Education may not feel cheap sometimes, but compared to other countries (other than those where it's free), we're not doing too bad... though it is getting more expensive. I'd be pretty pleased to see my children do post-secondary for "free".

3. Do you have running water in your house? Electricity? Are you able to drive your car to work without losing a hubcap? Sorry, other than on some reserves, I don't think there are many places in Canada where the infrastructure is in "shambles". Traffic is not congested in all major cities... hell, even Toronto, the centre of the universe isn't all that bad if you avoid rush hour. Congestion would mean 24/7 unusability to me... not 2-3 hours a day.

4. Military... yes, the military could use more funding, but they're doing a lot better than they were ten years ago.

5. HA! Get real!

6. I've never heard of this attitude...

7. Not everything is taxed, actually. Essentials like bread, milk... go to the grocery store, you'll see.

Overall, it sounds like another bitchfest from an "Angry White Guy"... the usual.

[Wacko]

There have been numerous instances... at least here in Alberta, where people have died due to a long wait AT THE HOSPITAL. One guys appendix burst and he died on the way to another hospital because he was pushed back so far at the one he was sitting at.

Health care, at least in Alberta is crap. Considering we're the only province out of debt and the fact that it's common practice to have patients sit for 12-15 hours waiting for a doctor... i bet you large parts of Africa have better wait times. As of 2009 I think... Albertans will no longer pay health premiums... WOW I'm going to have an extra $500 dollars at the end of the year and when I'm in some serious trouble I'll have time to think what I can do with that money while dying, waiting for a doctor at the hospital... that's what the genius politicians in Alberta came up with... which brings me back to the second point.

The reason a lot of people don't vote is because there's no one to vote FOR. Much like in the US, Canada only has 2 parties and they are both f@cked. Until politicians become accountable for their actions we're always going to have yahoos running the country... and since yahoos are running the country we will never have politicians accountable.

my nickel worth

[2R]

There have been numerous instances... at least here in Alberta, where people have died due to a long wait AT THE HOSPITAL. One guys appendix burst and he died on the way to another hospital because he was pushed back so far at the one he was sitting at.

Health care, at least in Alberta is crap. Considering we're the only province out of debt and the fact that it's common practice to have patients sit for 12-15 hours waiting for a doctor... i bet you large parts of Africa have better wait times. As of 2009 I think... Albertans will no longer pay health premiums... WOW I'm going to have an extra $500 dollars at the end of the year and when I'm in some serious trouble I'll have time to think what I can do with that money while dying, waiting for a doctor at the hospital... that's what the genius politicians in Alberta came up with... which brings me back to the second point.

The reason a lot of people don't vote is because there's no one to vote FOR. Much like in the US, Canada only has 2 parties and they are both f@cked. Until politicians become accountable for their actions we're always going to have yahoos running the country... and since yahoos are running the country we will never have politicians accountable.

my nickel worth

Cannot be that bad in Alberta ,less than forty percent of those who could vote in the provincial election actually voted.
Probably cause they were working two jobs to pay the bills and did not have the time to vote.So Honest Ed can continue Rotten Ralphs oil royalty give away .So when you are sitting in the ER for twelve hours waiting to see a doctor think about how many doctors could have been hired with the five billion dollars that ralph gave to his friends .

[Wacko]

Oh I agree but the next best thing is the liberal party which actually lost seats last election... I think they are down to like 5! Don't get me wrong... I'm not necessarily hoping that the liberal party wins.... what I would like to see is the ability of other parties to actually challenge policy.. then again... looking at the federal model... I guess that doesn't help things either... once again... people don't vote because no matter who's in charge things don't change!

I am kind of curious as to how the whole merging of the boards will pan out... it will take probably a couple years to see the full effect of that.

Health care as a whole needs revamping I think... there was talk about privatizing health care to a point... where a doctor would need to reach a quota of X public patience and then they can pencil in private patients who pay out of their own pocket.... I think this would bring more doctors back to Alberta and an overall better health care system... but who knows.

Hey, they did up the royalty and all the oil companies went to Saskatchewan and Manitoba! It's just a matter of time until they come back... the EU1? project was like that too.. when oil dropped below cost the oil companies stopped building infrastructure in norther Alberta... then, when oil went back up they couldn't build fast enough...they admitted that if they kept with construction during the low time they would have been millions ahead in the long run... BUT... the cartels need to prove a point and while they ravage land east of us, they will end up coming back with their tails between their legs.... it's already happening

[sissyphus]

"register to vote, then run for something" Frank Zappa


You don't like it. Change it.

[fanspeed]

There have been numerous instances... at least here in Alberta, where people have died due to a long wait AT THE HOSPITAL. One guys appendix burst and he died on the way to another hospital because he was pushed back so far at the one he was sitting at.

Health care, at least in Alberta is crap. Considering we're the only province out of debt and the fact that it's common practice to have patients sit for 12-15 hours waiting for a doctor... i bet you large parts of Africa have better wait times. As of 2009 I think... Albertans will no longer pay health premiums... WOW I'm going to have an extra $500 dollars at the end of the year and when I'm in some serious trouble I'll have time to think what I can do with that money while dying, waiting for a doctor at the hospital... that's what the genius politicians in Alberta came up with... which brings me back to the second point.

The reason a lot of people don't vote is because there's no one to vote FOR. Much like in the US, Canada only has 2 parties and they are both f@cked. Until politicians become accountable for their actions we're always going to have yahoos running the country... and since yahoos are running the country we will never have politicians accountable.

my nickel worth

If I am thinking about the guy you are talking about, he left after getting frustrated-he would still be alive had he stayed.

[CD]

Or was it this one?

Teen dies after appendix ruptures
Hospital wait proved fatal: Calgary parents

April 19, 2007
By BILL KAUFMAN, Sun Media

Hospital log jams and a misdiagnosis led to the death of their 18-year-old son, who succumbed to a ruptured appendix, charge the young man’s devastated Calgary parents.

Wendy Baseotto said she’s horrified at how her son Jordan Johanson had to wait nearly 12 hours for surgery at the Rockyview hospital late last month, a delay she suspects proved fatal.

“When he first got there, that’s when they should have taken it seriously...I’m just thinking this could have been prevented,” said a weeping Baseotto.

She said her son was misdiagnosed at a southeast walk-in clinic March 23 after he’d fallen ill two days earlier.

When it was clear the antibiotics he’d been prescribed weren’t helping, Baseotto took her normally healthy, vibrant son to the Rockyview emergency unit the following evening, a Saturday.

It wasn’t long after their arrival at 7:30 p.m., she said, that staff told them “they expected he had appendicitis but he didn’t get operated on until 7:15 the next morning...why didn’t they take him into intensive care?” she said, adding she wonders if crowded conditions and scarcity of physicians typical of weekends doomed their son.

“I had to sit there all this time thinking my kid was dying and he was — he even told me he was dying.”

While they waited, Baseotto said Jordan desperately wanted to know when he’d reach the operating theatre.

After surgery, Jordan never improved and died 16 hours later, said the grieving mother.

Full story here...

[Wacko]

Either way... people are dying of stupid things that should be taken care of... we're 30th on the WHO's list of countries in regards to this... Last I checked we are part of the 8 richest countries in the world... how can we be 30th in the world for health care is beyond me... the other thing that boggles my mind is how can other provinces... who actually have debt to pay back... have a better health care system than Alberta...

[bmc]

I have been hospitalized in Bangkok, Tokyo, Bahrain, Calgary, Montreal over the years. Canada not in the past ten years. By far the worst was Canada. Bangkok was impressively good. Bahrain was outstanding. I have family in Canada. In November, it will be two years that my 72 year old mother will have been waiting for elective back surgery in Ottawa. The horror stories I read about in Canada are unacceptable. I have been paying for my own private health care, subsidized in part by my employer. I get outstanding health care here in Switzerland and have real concerns about returning to Canada when I retire. It's a real issue for us.

[Dash-Ate]

and harper is simply kissing bush's a$$ and blaming everything on a new eternal enemy" muslims.


I guess we can't blame USSR anymore.

[Dash-Ate]

Do you want to move to the American style heath care system where you are billed $25 for an Asprin? No joke.

[Moose47]

<<<<and harper is simply kissing bush's a$$ and blaming everything on a new eternal enemy" muslims. I guess we can't blame USSR anymore. >>>

Ahhhhh, I was waiting to see how long it would take some left-wing bleeding heart socialist to start spewing typical non-sensical anti-American verbal diahhrea rhetoric. I guess you win for being the first.

Semper Fi

[Siddley Hawker]

I have been hospitalized in Bangkok, Tokyo, Bahrain, Calgary, Montreal over the years. Canada not in the past ten years. By far the worst was Canada. Bangkok was impressively good. Bahrain was outstanding. I have family in Canada. In November, it will be two years that my 72 year old mother will have been waiting for elective back surgery in Ottawa. The horror stories I read about in Canada are unacceptable. I have been paying for my own private health care, subsidized in part by my employer. I get outstanding health care here in Switzerland and have real concerns about returning to Canada when I retire. It's a real issue for us.

bmc I have been hospitalized - for a subdural hematoma - via emergency services in Quebec, and once you are in the system I found the service to be excellent. The problem arises when people have to get to see a doctor for run of the mill medical care. There are literally millions of people who don't have a family doctor in Canada and have no hope of ever getting one. We are simply not graduating enough medical personnel from Canadian universites to fill the need, and matters are only going to get worse as the population ages and the Government contiues to set quotas on the number of medical students allowed graduate from university.

Do you want to move to the American style heath care system where you are billed $25 for an Asprin? No joke

Intelligent discussion on health care ends with statements like that.

According to the OECD, Canada ranks about 13th among the countries that supply some form of Government funded medical care. We are ranked behind the Scandinavian countries, France, Switzerland and a handful of others. In all those countries the health care system is publicly funded, same as us. The difference with us is that the Canada Health Act decrees the only entity qualified to supply health care is the Government, while the others have instituted some form of public/private system paid for from the public purse. Any discussion on health care in this country should begin with the question, "How come we can't have a system that works as well as the French or the Scandinavian or the Swiss?" instead of "Do you want an American style health care system."

[Wacko]

We are simply not graduating enough medical personnel from Canadian universites to fill the need, and matters are only going to get worse as the population ages and the Government contiues to set quotas on the number of medical students allowed graduate from university.

Seriously? Because I have a doctor friend who just recently finished school... the story from that side is that there aren't enough residency(SP)? positions. Basically, rather than fight the whole graduating class for the spots at least have the class ended up applying to other countries where more doctors will take them under their wing.... back to you

[bmc]

Do you want to move to the American style heath care system where you are billed $25 for an Asprin? No joke.

You already have it. Do you really believe that all aspirin handed out in Canadian hospitals are free? You couldn't even tell me what the true cost of an aspirin is in the Canadian medical system.

I dropped into the Lyon's Gate hospital in YVR nine years ago for treatment. I had to pull out my credit card as I was a non-resident. I went to emergency and sat for a couple of hours. I can't recall what I was there for, but I do remember paying $540 for that experience.

[Freddy_Francis]

I love when people start comparing american and canadian health care systems. How about we raise the bar a little higher? Heres my story, my mom went in for a surgery. It was a basic one day routine surgery, basically you come in the morning get cut and go home at night. However because she has high blood pressure they wanted to keep her for one night to make sure all was ok. She has to wait about 9 months for a spot (Those beds are worth more than gold) So the day arrives and I go with her at around 8am. They prep her and tell me to come back around noon. So I come back around noon...

As soon as I enter the nurse tells me I can see my mom and help her get ready to go home...
Me: "no no mam, you must be mistaken she's suppose to stay the night" (Honest mistake...I assumed)

Nurse: Oh no she's ok to go home, the surgeon ASKED HER if she felt ok to go and she said yes

Me: you asked a patient under heavy sedation if she was ok to go home and thats what were going by...

Of course the surgeon is no where to be found...

When I went to go see her after that very high IQ conversation with the nurse. She barely could speak let alone make decisions. The whole reason she had to wait 9mths was because THEY wanted to keep her overnight. Pretty pathetic

Were not the worst but were not leading the way in my opinion.

[bmc]

Freddie....I should give you my mothers email address and get her to tell you of her experiences.

If any of you have tried to book an MRI, please post the wait time for this. From our family (not just mother), the wait time has been six to eight months, from our experience. Since living in Switzerland, I have had three MRI's for different reasons. Each of them were booked and completed within 24 hours. The most recent was booked and completed with three hours.

I pay $1,200 a month in health care premiums for four of us. All medical expenses get sent to me. I pay them and get reimbursed. If it's big surgery, they will pay in advance.

How much do you pay for your medical coverage? And don't say it's free. It's coming off that paycheck. How much of it is going to medical?

You ARE paying for it. Why not pay for private health care and get really good care? Why is there so much fear for private health care?

[Hedley]

Why is there so much fear for private health care?

Because all "good Canadians" are convinced that their government
can deliver services more efficiently than the private sector.

See, the one thing that Canadians can be proud of, is that
our government spends our tax dollars wisely, prudently and
efficiently.

If you ask a "good Canadian", none of the following ever
really happened:

1) EH-101 cancellation (one billion dollars)
2) Leaky British Submarines (800M)
3) Gun Registry (two billion dollars)
4) Sponsorship Scandal (250M)

the list goes on, and on, and on, of the laundry list
of incredible, eye-opening, partisan and outright
corrupt government waste and inefficiency.

But "good Canadians" are convinced that all of
the above never really happened. Like the moon
landing, it was ALL staged by the right-wing media

I am attacked here frequently - I am accused
of not being a "good Canadian", as described
above. I guess I am guilty as charged.

My problem is that I want to set the bar higher,
for our government conduct, ethics, performance,
efficiency, and accountability

This is apparently an extremely radical viewpoint,
according to the "good Canadians" here, most of
whom could have been extras in the movie
Idiocracy, which I am convinced was not
actually fiction, but merely a future documentary.

[bmc]

You know Hedley, I fully agree with you. The responses you get are what I get from my family.

I'm beginning to think that you're need to pull -6G's on a regular basis has some merit.

[Siddley Hawker]

Seriously? Because I have a doctor friend who just recently finished school... the story from that side is that there aren't enough residency(SP)? positions. Basically, rather than fight the whole graduating class for the spots at least have the class ended up applying to other countries where more doctors will take them under their wing.... back to you

I used 'medical personnel' so as to include not only GP's but also nursing staff and specialists, and I based my conclusion on articles like the following:

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/08/ ... rtage.html
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ ... RTM0013191
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... hub=Health
and
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healt ... urses.html

I have no reason to doubt your friend's veracity. Are residency spaces alotted by the Government? If so, then the Government is not part of the solution to any real or percieved doctor shortage in this country, it is part of the problem.