Too early for LOA??

[the original tony]

Just thinking, but is it too early to get a LOA, or think about it.
Not seniority with the company, is it better to take a leave now and find work while the getting is still good?
Or is it worth the wait to see who, if any are actually laid off?
Any one, any thoughts?
Best of luck to all in the same position as I. Better off or worse, we are all on the same team.

Safe flying


Tony

[Snowgoose]

If you take LOA, does the clock stop on flat pay? Probation?

[Lost in Saigon]

LOA means the clock stops on everything except your seniority number and you still get passes. When you come back, you will still be on flat pay and probation. You will also lose time towards your formula pay pay level.

Passes will be good only on Air Canada (no Z fare or ID90) and cost much more because active employees currently have their service charged waved and only pay taxes.

You can continue health benefits, but you must cut a cheque for the full amount. (roughly twice as much because you are paying the company’s portion as well)

You will stop pension contributions and lose years of service, but in some cases (Special Leave of Absence) you may be able to buy back lost pension time. Depending on your age, it can cost as much as $10,000 to $20,000 per year to buy back.

[the original tony]

that sounds great.........so many perks by trying to help out and take an LOA.
so who exactly will take these voluntarily, or who will be given the choice if t comes up??
i am completely in the dark here, i know what the contract says and its max 6 months at my stage, but is there some give with certain circumstances???
best of luck all

safe flying

Tony

[prop2jet]

People who take the LOA do so because they usually have another "gig" they can pursue, and one that in all likelyhood pays as much or more. In some cases it is an opportunity to do something you would not have the chance to do. And for some it is the opportunity to be at the front of the line when "crap" hits the fan.

[Puddle Jumper]

People who take the LOA do so because they usually have another "gig" they can pursue, and one that in all likelyhood pays as much or more. In some cases it is an opportunity to do something you would not have the chance to do. And for some it is the opportunity to be at the front of the line when "crap" hits the fan.

This kind of situation really makes me angry. I know of pilots who are now being career failed because AC crew are starting to jump like rats from that big rusty old sinking ship we know as HMCS AC. You might like to call it LOA, but I'd call it spineless and selfish. You all chose to run to AC with open arms when the call came through, and most didn't even think twice about the company they were leaving behind, until know. Know it's, hummm maybe I should contact my old "CP buddy" (who you haven't contacted since you left for the mighty AC!) and see if I can slip back into that nice safe left seat job I had, just until they finish building the new HMCS AC of course!

Stop being yellow ladies and gents, get a spine and stick it out until you're told to leave. I bet you never mentioned in your interview that you'd leave AC at the first sign of trouble, did you? And I though AC pilots were supposed to be special!

[Al707]

And exactly how long have you been in the business Puddy Jumper to have such a feeling of entitlement?

[The Raven]

This kind of situation really makes me angry. I know of pilots who are now being career failed because AC crew are starting to jump like rats from that big rusty old sinking ship we know as HMCS AC. You might like to call it LOA, but I'd call it spineless and selfish.

Better check your facts there PJ. No one has been granted a LOA this year. Everyone is flying max time...all hands on deck so to speak. I think you have been fed a load of crap by someone who is blaming their own failures on Air Canada.

[Jaques Strappe]

People who take the LOA do so because they usually have another "gig" they can pursue, and one that in all likelyhood pays as much or more. In some cases it is an opportunity to do something you would not have the chance to do. And for some it is the opportunity to be at the front of the line when "crap" hits the fan.

This kind of situation really makes me angry. I know of pilots who are now being career failed because AC crew are starting to jump like rats from that big rusty old sinking ship we know as HMCS AC. You might like to call it LOA, but I'd call it spineless and selfish. You all chose to run to AC with open arms when the call came through, and most didn't even think twice about the company they were leaving behind, until know. Know it's, hummm maybe I should contact my old "CP buddy" (who you haven't contacted since you left for the mighty AC!) and see if I can slip back into that nice safe left seat job I had, just until they finish building the new HMCS AC of course!

Stop being yellow ladies and gents, get a spine and stick it out until you're told to leave. I bet you never mentioned in your interview that you'd leave AC at the first sign of trouble, did you? And I though AC pilots were supposed to be special!

P J


Wow! You sure assume a lot don't you? I am the first person to speak out against prostitution within our industry and usually the first to admit that Air Canada is not perfect but man, I am stunned by your post.


What really blows me away is that you ( as with hundreds of others like you ) are probably sitting in a position right now that is directly attributed to the fact that Air Canada has been hiring these "yellow ladies and gents" as you put it, over the past three years. So perhaps rather than ridiculing your colleague for acccepting a LOA when fuel prices are hitting the economical ceiling or the "HMCS AC" for hiring them in the first place, you should perhaps be thanking them for leaving you the opportunity you now ( not know ) currently enjoy!

[Puddle Jumper]

Reasonable comments by all. However, I can only go on what I know, and that is that I’ve seen pilots recently lose upgrades because AC crews are starting to contact their old companies with a view to returning to a safe seat to weather the storm! I don’t mind people jumping, it’s when they jump and kick someone else out of the lifeboat that bothers me!

And to any of the hard working and dedicated AC crew that may be offended by my generalized comments, but to whom they are not directed, please accept my sincere apologies. I have no axe to grind with AC, and I take my hat off to those who are prepared to tough it out until they're told to walk, or better times return. Good luck to you all.

Fly safe.

PS. Jaques, none of my colleagues have left for AC for over the past three years.

[co-joe]

I always thought that people who could afford the LOA taking it voluntarily helped out those less fortunate lower on the list who maybe couldn't afford the move again of being furloughed? Kind of the opposite of eating your young isn't it?

[netty]

If you want to throw stones, maybe start with the guys that hold down 2 jobs at separate companies in aviation and really prevent someone else from making a living. LOA's are pretty far down on the list compared to that one don't you think?? I see nothing wrong with taking the LOA to help a junior guy keep his/her job/position at your company, it's may hurt one person but at least it helps another at the same time. The guys that are working two gigs are doing more harm.

[retired or retarded]

This kind of situation really makes me angry. I know of pilots who are now being career failed because AC crew are starting to jump like rats from that big rusty old sinking ship we know as HMCS AC. You might like to call it LOA, but I'd call it spineless and selfish. You all chose to run to AC with open arms when the call came through, and most didn't even think twice about the company they were leaving behind, until know. Know it's, hummm maybe I should contact my old "CP buddy" (who you haven't contacted since you left for the mighty AC!) and see if I can slip back into that nice safe left seat job I had, just until they finish building the new HMCS AC of course!

Stop being yellow ladies and gents, get a spine and stick it out until you're told to leave. I bet you never mentioned in your interview that you'd leave AC at the first sign of trouble, did you? And I though AC pilots were supposed to be special!

Not everyone left there companies high and dry and ran off to Air Canada as you seem to imply. The fact that they would happily take them back says exactly the opposite in most cases. People moving on is a natural progression of the industry. Unfortunately so is layoffs and down turns. As far as stealing jobs from other people that deserve it more, how could anyone be so arrogant to assume that what they have done is so far more deserving of the position? Most people that went to AC have also worked a long hard road as well. So instead of waiting till there are no options they are being proactive so they can still feed their families. To say they are coming back to steal jobs and "career fail" people who are more deserving is ridiculous!!

[007]

How it work for leave ? Can we ask for one today ? How long it takes to get a answer ?

Tahnks

[scotothedoublet]

If I want to save my place, go back to my old job or work two jobs it's my business and good on me. If you don't like it move to Cuba or N Korea.

[Brick Head]

This kind of situation really makes me angry. I know of pilots who are now being career failed because AC crew are starting to jump like rats from that big rusty old sinking ship we know as HMCS AC. You might like to call it LOA, but I'd call it spineless and selfish. You all chose to run to AC with open arms when the call came through, and most didn't even think twice about the company they were leaving behind, until know. Know it's, hummm maybe I should contact my old "CP buddy" (who you haven't contacted since you left for the mighty AC!) and see if I can slip back into that nice safe left seat job I had, just until they finish building the new HMCS AC of course!

Stop being yellow ladies and gents, get a spine and stick it out until you're told to leave. I bet you never mentioned in your interview that you'd leave AC at the first sign of trouble, did you? And I though AC pilots were supposed to be special!

Puddle Jumper,

I just don't follow the logic.

Lets just say AC furlough's 270 pilots and no one takes a LOA. If I am not mistaken you still have 270 pilots looking for work.

So LOA or not you will have 270 guys/gals looking for work at the same time.

Right?

If there are no leaves it will actually affect you worse. The bottom 270 will get furloughed with little ability to use a type endorsement to get a good job off shore. On the other hand with LOA you will have more senior individuals going off shore for wide body jobs.

With all that said. I can smell an early retirement paqckage coming. If they infact get rid of the 330's in favour of newer 767's and 777's it will be a good time to be an old fart on the 330/340.

here's hoping for a down turn as I turn 57ish.

[just curious]

LOA or layoff, a driver who was a hard-working talented individual will generally always be welcomed by former employers. Childish to think they wouldn't be.

They would come back with new insights as to trainng and SOPs, and a different perspective. Just as most companies are running out of quickly upgradeable FO's, line indoc and training captains.