Mayday...mayday...mayday

[F,D and H]

Everyone here has at one time read accident reports. While we all (or at least should) learn from the mistakes possibly made by others, you don't often hear about the times that pilots have declared an emergency and have gotten the aircraft on the ground unscathed.

So lets hear it. Describe a situation where you had to repeat that dreaded word three times and tell us what steps you took, whether inside or outside of the box, to get your ass on the ground.

Cheers!

[Rudder Bug]

Only once, while losing the power on a 172 at 300ft after takeoff, landed straight ahead on the remaining 5,000 ft. It was a reflex. But I usually say "Holy @#$!", the english version of Tabarnak, like most of us. Well it depends with who and where I am

[SAR_YQQ]

While I have declared an emergency before with IFRCC/ATC - I have never actually used "MAYDAY" over the radio. Nine times out of ten, unless you actually state "... I am declaring an emergency at this time..." ATC will confirm that very statement with you - even if you make it very clear via other verbage.

[AuxBatOn]

Question for ATC types. Do you make a distinction between a Pan and a Mayday?

AuxBatOn

[Troubleshot]

Watched a MK Airlines 747 cargo bird go off the end of runway 23/05 at 3AM in YHZ...burst into flames, called mayday on ground freq. from the truck. for those who know the airport I was sitting on taxi-way juliet having a coffee watching jets take-off...when one doesn't your brain studders. me and my co-worker were the only witnesses, trust me we were very, very close. We had interviews with the TSB, Transport, and the RCMP all day.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/200 ... 4_sec1.asp

[grimey]

Question for ATC types. Do you make a distinction between a Pan and a Mayday?

AuxBatOn

As an FSS, if I ever got two at the same time ("I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue..."), they I'd treat the mayday with a higher priority, but I doubt that'll ever happen. It's likely happened to an unfortunate controller or two, though. One's urgency, the other's distress, and there's certainly a difference in how serious each one is, even if both are emergencies.

[AuxBatOn]

In terms of clearing the patterns/airspace, is there a difference?

[Driving Rain]

Both times I was so close to the ground/water there was no time to shout Mayday.
Ist time in a PA 12 when the wing decided to more or less fall apart. The right wing gas tank panel flew off cutting the rudder in half and leaving a 3 ft by 3 foot hole in the wing root just above it's gas tank.
Another time in D18S at about 400 ft carrying about 1 ton of people and gear, I hear a loud explosive type noise, next thing I know the aircraft is shaking like it's stalled. I shove the nose down but it just picks up speed and the shaking is still very volent. I have to round out at the water and touch down at about 140 kts. My eyes are now as big as Frisbees trying to figure out what happened to my bird. My eye catches a glimps out the port window of the port battery hatch cover standing upright as if it was a spoiler. It was a spoiler. If I had not been over a large lake at the time it decided to let go I would not be here writing this. I'd rather be lucky than good any day.

[l_reason]

Mine was more of a Pan Pan then mayday. In flight structural failure of the rear attach spar on the vertical stab. I got in touch with another aircraft that was able to relay my situation to FSS. Here is the TSB report. http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/certi ... 005-09.htm

[Boeing Driver]

Years ago, I was flying a Navajo into Vancouver, and about 30 miles out, I lost #2 engine. I never used the word Mayday, but simply said that I was "declaring an emergency". It worked out all fine and dandy as far as getting priority and choice of runways, "..you are cleared to land on the runway of your choice......please advise". However, the flying that I do now, that probably wouldn't work the same. If I told Taipei control that I was "declaring an emergency", they would most likely not understand the severity of this statement, that is, if they even understood what you said. You'd likely get a "ahhhhhhhh........say again?" or an "ahhhhhhhhh.........unable due traffic"!?!?!?! Away from english speaking countries, you probably want to use a Mayday call.

Safe flying

Cheers!!!

[F,D and H]

Yes, sorry what I meant was, any time that you had declared an emergency, not necessarily declared mayday.

[FamilyGuy]

Pan Pan Pan Pan has to be the most useless dinosaur left in the whole aviation lexicony. @#$! really, I'm having a not real emergency, just a problem, but I better not chance this message getting missed, so I'll say Pan Pan 3 times to get ATC's attention????? Maybe when all radios had tubes in them.....

Even Mayday is a bit of a relic. Originally saying Mayday Mayday Mayday was to give the guy on the other end a chance to recognize that the message about to be received was super important and likely to only be heard once - pay attention - turn up the squelch - maybe grab a pen.

What always makes me laugh now a days is what exactly is the guy on the ground going to do for you??? Apart from mark your last known position and send the meat wagon? If the situation is so dire you need to say Mayday, it's not like you are going to have a 1/2 hour conversation afterwards - if that is possible why say Mayday at all - just declare an emergency and explain it.

However maybe still a good idea to say Mayday if you think this will be your only transmission - better chance they will find it quicker on the tapes.

[AuxBatOn]

FamilyGuy, personally, the way I was trained (and, I think, the way that makes more sense, is for a critical emergency (ie: I might have to eject if that doesn't work) will be a mayday. For anything non-critical (ie: I have an emergency, but I'm not considering ejection yet) I will call a Pan Pan. That way, it makes a distinction of what is really urgent, and what required attention.

[grimey]

Using either term ensures that ATC or FSS don't have any illusions about it being serious. It also cues in other pilots on that frequency to STFU unless they have something urgent as well.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=30680

I've heard "Pan Pan" once, after a certain (now former, having moved on to much greener pastures) SW4 captain I used to bowl with had one engine go uncontrolled to full throttle. I've never heard a Mayday, despite having dealt with or seen several situations where either a Pan or Mayday would have been appropriate. The reluctance for commercial pilots to declare emergencies in this country is troubling, to say the least.

I have heard a "he's right the @#$! in front of me" though, which had roughly the same effect, even if it isn't approved phraseology.

[cyxe]

Using either term ensures that ATC or FSS don't have any illusions about it being serious. It also cues in other pilots on that frequency to STFU unless they have something urgent as well.

Exactly. See the link above.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE)
...a bit of a relic??

[grimey]

I never used the word Mayday, but simply said that I was "declaring an emergency". It worked out all fine and dandy

Yea, just to be clear, even if you don't use "Mayday" or "Pan Pan", ATC and FSS arn't going to ignore you. There are some "by the book" types, but nobody is that by-the-book. But... improper phraseology can lead to confusion between pilots and the ATS unit they're communicating with as to what is actually going on, and how serious it is. It's a clarity thing, not a notification thing.

And for @#$! sakes, if it's a mechanical problem, don't tell me you forgot something. It's blatantly obvious you didn't when you park on the apron for 3 days afterwards.

That isn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just something I've seen repeatedly.

[xsbank]

cyxe - I was looking for that one when you beat me to it! Classic V1 cut, handled perfectly for the world and every type rating instructor out there to see - brings tears to my eyes.

The only reason you don't say 'mayday' is because (actually there are more than one) you think you are Captain Terrific and a mere life-threatening situation ain't gonna phase you so you will stay really cool and merely say "...Houston, we have a problem."

Another reason is you are shy or bashful and don't like drawing attention to yourself.

Or you didn't pay attention in Private class and you're not sure if its 3 maydays or 3 maydays times 3 or whatever.

If you are in a life-threatening situation (engine fire, emergency descent etc.) and you do not declare a mayday, not only do you not get all the atc help you can get or the risk of mis-communication is possible, when you get the pile of smoking junk on the ground, maybe the trucks will not be there (in Canada, in many places, they have to come out from the town) or maybe, when they sift through the wreckage looking for you, TC will start an enforcement against you, the insurance company will try and deny your claim and the passengers' families will sue you or your estate or for not having done everything you could to safeguard their lives.

Lets say your flaps fail - a flight control failure, and you don't tell anyone. Its a fairly typical failure, right? RJs 'do' it all the time. So you just suck it up, and approach, saying you will be landing long. You touch down and a tire blows at the faster speed and you zoom through a hangar. That same gang of vultures and your employer is going to ask, why didn't you declare a Pan and get the trucks and rescue people standing by so some of those lives could have been saved? You get fired, your estate gets sued, TC calls it pilot error and you did everything (but one thing) right.

Why take a chance with a miscommunication?

[. ._]

My theory is NEVER BE AFRAID TO SAY MAYDAY!!!

If it turns out NOT to be an emergency, well, you're on the ground and safe. Who cares after that?

I just have it in my mind to omit Pan from my lexicon. If I'm fucked, I'm not proud- I'm declaring an emergency! Maybe I'm too stupid, maybe I'm too forgetful. I don't care. If ANYTHING fucks up, I'm goin' MAYDAY!!!

Don't like it? Fine. I'll get first dibs on the runway, beeeeatch!

-istp

[Big Pistons Forever]

My theory is NEVER BE AFRAID TO SAY MAYDAY!!!

If it turns out NOT to be an emergency, well, you're on the ground and safe. Who cares after that?

I just have it in my mind to omit Pan from my lexicon. If I'm fucked, I'm not proud- I'm declaring an emergency! Maybe I'm too stupid, maybe I'm too forgetful. I don't care. If ANYTHING fucks up, I'm goin' MAYDAY!!!

Don't like it? Fine. I'll get first dibs on the runway, beeeeatch!

-istp

Pan does have it's uses. The big one in my mind is to get every one else off the radio. The last time I used it I got a door unsafe light on a PA60 just after takeoff. I was pretty sure there was no actual unsafe conditions but I still wanted to land ASAP so I could check the door mechanism. The problem was the tower freq was very busy. A quick PAN call got everyone to shut up and allowed me to get a quick clearance to join the downwind and everyone picked up where they left off. Also you always have the option of upgrading to a MAYDAY if your initial assement turned out to be too optimistic.

[habit]

[quote="FamilyGuy"]Pan Pan Pan Pan has to be the most useless dinosaur left in the whole aviation lexicony. @#$! really, I'm having a not real emergency, just a problem, but I better not chance this message getting missed, so I'll say Pan Pan 3 times to get ATC's attention????? Maybe when all radios had tubes in them.....

Even Mayday is a bit of a relic. Originally saying Mayday Mayday Mayday was to give the guy on the other end a chance to recognize that the message about to be received was super important and likely to only be heard once - pay attention - turn up the squelch - maybe grab a pen.

What always makes me laugh now a days is what exactly is the guy on the ground going to do for you??? Apart from mark your last known position and send the meat wagon? If the situation is so dire you need to say Mayday, it's not like you are going to have a 1/2 hour conversation afterwards - if that is possible why say Mayday at all - just declare an emergency and explain it.


TO all pilots using this forum for advice ignore the above statements very unprofessional and could lead to countless problems suck it up and use PAN PAN or Mayday as situation requires despite the advice of some cowboys on this site if you have a competent instructor he should suggest the same

[KenoraPilot]

Never have and crossing my fingers, cause not words I ever want to udder

[Tim]

I had a oil leak during an IFR training fight (turns out my student didn't have the oil cap screwed in, due to a miscommunication from me, but that's a story for another thread). We had just conducted a missed appch to complete a 2nd practise appch. The wx was OVC010ish. Part of our climb checks was to check the engines for fires and leaks. It was then we noticed oil spewing out of the engine cowling (not knowing it was just the dipstick not being in). Luckily we were still below the layer when we noticed. At the point where we noticed the oil leak I took control, levelled off at about 700' AGL and began an immediate turn onto the downwind while x-mitting "Tower, ABC, cancelling IFR and turning for the downwind for an immediate landing. We have an oil leak and we're shutting down the left engine." I never actually said the words mayday or emergency, but I was crystal clear about the situation and my intentions. It wasn't out of flippancy that I didn't actually declare the emergency, I was just busy dealing with it...although I suppose prefacing the radio call with mayday would have only taken one second extra. Either way, the tower got the point, we we're on the ground less than 2 minutes later and the trucks we're waiting there for us.
It was one of those situations you hope to avoid, but when it's all over you're glad you had the experience. I was still pretty green as a multi-engine instructor at that point (it was around my 15th hour) and in hindsight feathering the engine probably wasn't required just due to the short amount of time it took to get on the ground. For the record I agree with the declard the emergecny people, if things get back under control you can always cancell the mayday.

[Northern Skies]

I was shocked at the "mayday is a relic" statement too. If all you think it's for is to review a set of tapes, you're rather sheltered. A good number of us are lucky to have anyone hear a transmission sometimes. In most of this country, the"meat wagon" is a big yellow helicopter searching a lot of bush for you.

The only time I have been up when mayday could have been used is when the cowling came off the otter into the prop. I wasn't flying and there was no intercom, so I don't know what he said. He had the thing pointed at a lake before I even knew what was going on.

Any other time something bad has happened to me was on takeoff, and yelling "stop, you bitch" was more relevant than a mayday call. One time was a C180 master cylinder falling apart and jamming a pedal in deflection on the step during an s-shaped takeoff. Another was a float opening up and filling which wasn't obvious until I was out of room to stop, but I had flying speed and could reef it up over the line of trees and recover over the creek on the other side. Another was a sketchy abort because of severe vibration after liftoff that turned out to be just a broken spinner. I was surprised, I thought the prop was coming off! There were a few more that were either from high wind/turbulence or just load/density misjudgements on critical takeoffs ie "lessons learned." I don't fly into as many tight lakes as that anymore (either that or it's not an issue for the beaver), but I'm happy to have had that experience.

So, most emergencies are things getting out of hand too quickly to "communicate" or even "navigate". But if I ever have an engine seize up or have flames start to shoot out of the cowling, I'm using the "m" word. I'm only four seaons into this, so I'm sure there are a variety of misadventures waiting to happen in the future. I'll just endeavour to prevent as many as I can to avoid having to "survive" them.

[Elliot Moose]

Neither "mayday" or "pan pan" are anachronisms anywhere but North America. Try to get out more guys and girls! They are standard phraseology the world over and mayday in particular is the only "official" way to declare an emergency in places like Europe.

In Eurocontrol countries, if you say "declaring an emergency" their response will always be "confirm you are declaring mayday?". You might get away with it in Japan, but that's only because they have a fair bit of American influence in their ATC--especially places like Okinawa. Pan Pan is still heard regularly in Europe for things like flap failures, etc. that aren't really emergencies, but do require an immediate landing nonetheless.

I would love to know why we in N.A. are just "too cool" to use these terms. There's no reason not to, and ATC will treat you the same whether you declare one or the other anyways. Why not use the correct terms to clarify the situation? I must admit that the time I landed on one fan in a jet, I was guilty of the same thing. It should have been a pan pan, but we basically just told them what was up, and then we had a whole back and forth about whether it was an emergency or not. We in N.A. are really some of the sloppiest radio operators around, and it's not until you start mixing that up with foreign authorities that you really see it.

I for one am actively trying to improve even when operating here.

[xsbank]

Sounds like some of you get it - thank you.