KFC CLOSE CALL AT CYHM

[cggnl]

Taken from CADORS:

Donaldson, John
Date: 2008/07/23
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: Commercial & Business Aviation
Narrative: The Kelowna Flightcraft Air Charter Ltd. Boeing 727-200 series cargo aircraft (operating as flight KFA281) was concluding an IFR flight from Moncton (Greater Moncton) International Airport (CYQM) to Hamilton (JCMIA) (CYHM). At 0215Z, KFA281 attempted an approach to runway 06 while there was thunderstorm activity and heavy rain in the vicinity of the airport. The aircraft touched down at CHARLIE intersection and rolled to approximately to the intersection of runway 30 before the flight crew initiated a go-around. The aircraft returned to land without incident on runway 12 at 0230Z. A subsequent runway inspection reported "five (5) foot ruts" in the grass off the end of runway 06 as well as extensive grass and mud debris on the threshold of runway 24. The threshold of runway 24 was swept by Field Maintenance staff.

User Name: Donaldson, John
Date: 2008/07/24
Further Action Required: Yes
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE Follow-up information received from Commercial & Business Aviation [2008/07/24]: A Civil Aviation Safety Inspector (CASI) spoke with the operator's Chief Pilot about this occurrence. The CASI was advised that the aircraft bounced twice on touchdown on runway 06 and a go-around was called for after the second bounce (as the Captain was unsure that the remaining runway would be sufficient to stop the aircraft). During the go-around, the tailskid and number 2 engine tailpipe contacted the runway, causing minor damage. The aircraft returned to land uneventfully on runway 12. A preliminary (internal) investigation determined that the speed brakes had been deployed on the second touchdown and the go-around was initiated with the speed brakes deployed. The flight crew did not realize that the speed brakes were extended until after the aircraft was airborne. The aircraft is undergoing repair and is expected to be returned to service on 2008/07/24. The company is looking into this occurrence via SMS. The T.S.B. has deployed two (2) investigators to the scene and is evaluating the level of investigation to conduct. More information to follow.


Rgds

[Four1oh]

That's a short damn runway for a 727...

[invertedattitude]

Go-around with the Spoilers deployed? Sounds to me like a couple of pilots should be buying some lottery tickets in the next few days. ( as in being lucky to be alive)

Reminds me of the American 757? that slammed into a mountain when it got lost on approach, during the attempt to clear terrain they had forgotten the deployed spoilers, and just barely hit the top of the mountain ridge...

Glad to hear these guys got out to learn from it...

Whats somewhat interesting about this event, @ 0215Z on Wednesday I was watching a TV show on DAL191 (Crash due to microburst)...

[WJ700]

I had extra sim time left after training and we did some fun stuff. On a two engine go around I was joking that it was going far too fast compared to the one engine go around and pulled the boards out in the climb... I was amazed at the power and performance it still had, when the second engine failed it still had a ton of energy before I had to stow them. Anyway, a light 727 on landing still has a pile of thrust and wouldn't lose too much performance in my opinion; I've been in a KF 727 jumpseat for a number two failure 10 years ago on climb out and it was a non-event... 300 knots and 2000 FPM with a full load.

Don't get me wrong now... speed brakes stowed is still my preferred profile

[Coast-dog]

Whoa I'm glad there was a happy ending for that one.

Originally the 727 came from the factory equipped with nose wheel brakes - from the 727 wiki, max landing weight rwy length is a shade over 5000'. YHM rwy06 is listed at 6000'; there's not much room for bouncing, I guess.

[atpilot]

What caused the bounce? The weather was reporting heavy thunderstorms in the vicinity of the airport. Was windshear a factor? What's more important was the crew keeping it together with a positive outcome.

[E-Flyer]

Reminds me of the American 757? that slammed into a mountain when it got lost on approach, during the attempt to clear terrain they had forgotten the deployed spoilers, and just barely hit the top of the mountain ridge...

Exactly what i was thinking !

[Four1oh]

That American 757 was still climbing too... just not fast enough.

[Donald]

Correct me if I am wrong, for I frequently am....

The 757 was attempting to climb with flight spoilers extended, whereas the 727 in YHM would have had flight and ground spoilers extended, wouldn't it? Tailpipe contact or not, that third engine came in handy!

[mighty mouse]

Just happy everyone is alright. Sounds like a go-around was the best call, just a shame about the spoilers but then we all make mistakes. ( I'm betting all the auto speed brakes were disabled on the 727s to save maintenance costs ... that would have automatically lowered the speed brakes when the thrust went up)

I imagine it was dark, very gusty, heavy rain ... lots to keep you busy on approach. A go-around after touch down is a gutsy move but good job to the captain for realizing it was the right move instead of going off the end! It would be very tempting to apply full brakes and reverse.

[Johnny767]

deleted...read the full thread and answered my own question.

[skydrolboy]

( I'm betting all the auto speed brakes were disabled on the 727s to save maintenance costs ... that would have automatically lowered the speed brakes when the thrust went up)

Not all 727's came with auto speed brakes, it was mainly the latest and greatest models that came from the factory with them and KF only has about three or four a/c with auto speed brake capability (all of them have been disabled to standardize the fleet). Also the auto-speed brakes on the 727 will not stow by themselves they only deploy automatically when you select reverse thrust, the captain has to stow the speed brakes manually.

[R1830]

727 auto speed brakes DO stow by themselves when the thrust comes up.

[Coast-dog]

Doesn't matter, really, as they're all deactivated now...

[corytrevor]

Doesn't matter, really, as they're all deactivated now...

Not all of them

[Cleared to FL370]

Sad to see the usual armchair investigations as usual here.

Mistakes happen we are all human beings, thankfully there was a positive outcome, things could have been far far worse.

Even though this event occured at a different airline than mine, I am thankful our 3 brothers at KFC are alive and well and with their families today.

[Troubleshot]

Sad to see the usual armchair investigations as usual here.

Mistakes happen we are all human beings, thankfully there was a positive outcome, things could have been far far worse.

Even though this event occured at a different airline than mine, I am thankful our 3 brothers at KFC are alive and well and with their families today.

Shut-up already... there maybe arm chairing going on, but there is always a douche bag like yourself that always pipes in to try and make everyone feel like crap. If I want to talk about an aviation story on an aviation website, I am going to expletive well do it. Take your whiny comments elsewhere. You are acting as if we wanted that crew dead...far from it, actually I got the vibe from the thread that everyone is cutting them slack due to the circumstances.

Get over yourself.

[Coast-dog]

Arm-chairing is how we can all learn from the experience of others, and so far this isn't the typical finger-pointing type of arm-chair QB'ing that happens more often than ought to.

Let's stay frosty, shall we?

If this post makes me a douche-bag, then so be it. No one's jumping on anyone as far as I can tell.

[Counciler]

... brothers or sisters ... right?
[quote="Cleared to FL370"]Sad to see the usual armchair investigations as usual here.

Mistakes happen we are all human beings, thankfully there was a positive outcome, things could have been far far worse.

Even though this event occured at a different airline than mine, I am thankful our 3 brothers at KFC are alive and well and with their families today.[/quote]

[Coast-dog]

troll-ing

[KAFUFO]

Correct me if I am wrong, for I frequently am....

The 757 was attempting to climb with flight spoilers extended, whereas the 727 in YHM would have had flight and ground spoilers extended, wouldn't it? Tailpipe contact or not, that third engine came in handy!

pound for pound the 757 was the most powerful airplane in commercial use till the 777. the 27 in this case was not trying to out climb a mountain so it won

[Liquid Charlie]

Trivia -- auto spoilers (200 advanced) deploy on touch down -- retract with Thrust levers moving forward towards "go around thrust" -- means reverse is stowed -- commit point to stay on the ground is pulling reverse -- 100's and 200's manual speed breaks -- you can land a 727-200 at full landing weight (164,000) on 6000 feet -- with nose breaks connected and operational --

[sky's the limit]

That would have been something to see, glad it turned out ok in the end.

Neat thread.

stl

[therubberjungle]

Re Liquid Charlie's trivia:

Yup, the "auto-spoilers" or speed brake on the -200 automatically deploys when the speed brake lever is positioned in the "armed" detent which is positioned with, and slightly behind of, the "down" detent. It's a selectable function, not automatic.

A while ago I asked one of the best 727 AMEs in the business exactly how many 727-200s are still using the nosewheel brakes. His answer: "One. It's in Africa." Seems most operators opted for the weight savings and reduced maintenance costs by either not equipping or removing the nosewheel braking system.

The heaviest landing weight I've seen in a 727-200 is 161000 lbs. Getting that much airplane stopped in 6000' is no problem at all; just stand on the brakes until the anti-skid stops cycling at 20 (or so) knots then taxi to a stop and stay far away from the main gear tires. The fuse plugs will most likely release due to the heating you generated in stopping. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Cheers

[Liquid Charlie]

The heaviest landing weight I've seen in a 727-200 is 161000 lbs. Getting that much airplane stopped in 6000' is no problem at all; just stand on the brakes until the anti-skid stops cycling at 20 (or so) knots then taxi to a stop and stay far away from the main gear tires. The fuse plugs will most likely release due to the heating you generated in stopping. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

We operate on a daily basis into 6000 feet and never have problems with overheating the breaks -- indeed -- I forgot to add you must "arm" the auto spoilers to deploy on touch down but will auto retract when the trust levers are advanced if manual was used -- yup -- all our 72's are 164,000 LW

Bare and dry for 6000 is not a problem -- it's when you deal with contamination you don't want to find that garden path --