Accomodations during course

[3down&loct]

What are most people doing that are on course for 6 weeks but are not going to live in Calgary.
The best Hotel rate I could find for WJ employees was $79 per night + tax.
Any better rates out there?
As well any good leads on car rental?


I am on course 15 Sept - end Oct.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks

[Tim Tam]

What are most people doing that are on course for 6 weeks but are not going to live in Calgary.
The best Hotel rate I could find for WJ employees was $79 per night + tax.
Any better rates out there?
As well any good leads on car rental?


I am on course 15 Sept - end Oct.

Any info appreciated.

Thanks

Why do we continue this process?

Guys trying to find their own accomodations for training? Some sleep on friends couches, some get hotels, some sleep in their cars, or at the bar..

Why can't we just bite the bullet and pay for hotels for new hires so they can get a decent nights sleep, and have a suitable studying environment. I understand the "no per diem" policy, but why can't WS get a deal with a hotel close to the airport and put these fellers up?

Personally, I would hold back a few bucks in profit share to help out the new guys.

Your thoughts?

[Smitty]

The higher ups still hold to the "one base concept" with no hint of that changing anytime soon. I don't like it anymore than anybody else, but it is what it is. The prevailing attitude still seems to be that you choose NOT to move.

But with housing prices being what they are in YYC, I don't really see it as a choice with many of our new hires.

Yes, a little help would be nice. But I don't see that happening.

[Azure]

Give this site a shot.

www.commuterhouse.com

[3down&loct]

Thanks for the commuterhouse link. Seems like the registration is not working so I cannot use it. Can't email them either. Anyone know if this website has been abandoned?
Thanks

[neophyte]

We don't pay for accomodations because of the "One base concept"?

That is a load of crap. Even the mighty AC offers accomodation and per diem while training, EVEN IF TRAINING AT YOUR BASE.

We should stand by our new hires and ensure they are rested and prepared to learn.

Just my opinion,

Neo

[mighty mouse]

Agreed!

[daveg]

You knew what you signed on for...forget it!

[Flightlevels]

Ok,

First you are applying for a job in YYC and we are not AC.,

Calgary is the base, if you can't afford to live there, fine. Maybe you should consider your other options more carefully. You are told of this during your phone screen and in the interview. PORTS aren't or never have been designed to be a base.

You are usually given more than 30 days notice that you have been hired and often they will give you a ticket to come out and sign for an apartment /mortgage etc. The hiring guys often bend over backwards.

Hotels have never been in the cards and personally I don't want them either. Little shit like this eats away at the bottom line period. Read a few articles in the general airline section as a reminder.

Can't get a good sleep or don't think you will on your buddys couch, don't come. Please TELL the folks in your interview this doesn't suit you. Already here and don't like the policy - then vent through the proper channels instead of whining on avcanada.

sheesh

[Tim Tam]

Ok,

First you are applying for a job in YYC and we are not AC.,

Calgary is the base, if you can't afford to live there, fine. Maybe you should consider your other options more carefully. You are told of this during your phone screen and in the interview. PORTS aren't or never have been designed to be a base.

You are usually given more than 30 days notice that you have been hired and often they will give you a ticket to come out and sign for an apartment /mortgage etc. The hiring guys often bend over backwards.

Hotels have never been in the cards and personally I don't want them either. Little shit like this eats away at the bottom line period. Read a few articles in the general airline section as a reminder.

Can't get a good sleep or don't think you will on your buddys couch, don't come. Please TELL the folks in your interview this doesn't suit you. Already here and don't like the policy - then vent through the proper channels instead of whining on avcanada.

sheesh

Great response. Typical of you guys that have been here for more than a few years.

Remember what it was like your first couple of years here? Using max ESP, you took home, what, like $800?

All I am trying to say (Whining as you call it) is that a company that takes care of its employees very well AFTER training, could do it a little better DURING training. That's all.

Most of us don't have the priviledge of getting our cars out to YYC, rent a place, move our crap, etc. etc. etc.

Again, thanks for the compassionate response. Sure a great way to build up confidence in the classes of new hires.......they must be dying to fly with you..

[A330]

Have to agree, not a very motivating way to start at your big "airline" job....can't sleep on your buddies couch, don't come?

I'm sure WJ could get a deep discount rate on a hotel or at least offer a generous supplement. It would sure dampen the initial experience. Isn't it important to start off on solid footing, well rested? I'm sure many people don't live or plan to live in YYC anymore...

[Intentional Left Bank]

Six week of hotel accommodations @ $50/night for say 200 new pilots next year = $420 000. Does the company just pay for initials, or also recurrents? For now, just initials, how long before bitching reaches a crescendo and its recurrents also?

Now how about meals? Can't expect guys to pay for their own meals. Let's say another 200k on top of that. Before long, you're talking serious cash. Which the company could theoretically afford, but things have to be fair, so FA's would have to be taken care of too. And with their turnover rate, I'd think it would be a prohibitive expense.

Why not keep it simple. If it costs a new hire $2000 bucks out his own pocket to look after his own food and accommodation during training, he'll likely get it back in his first year of profit share. And his out-of-pocket expenses in subsequent years will be easily borne by his expanding pocketbook. Everything is fair, and the guys that make the sacrifice and make the move to Calgary don't have to subsidize those who don't.

The company is approaching 12 years of age. Half a generation. While its tempting to spend the cash, it would be irresponsible but incredibly easy to erase the cost advantage the old-timers have worked so hard over the last 12 years to achieve. And once a benefit is given, it is monumentally hard to roll back if economic circumstances dictate.

The only circumstance where I'd say such a benefit could be justifiable would be if the quality of new hires started to plunge, and the company had difficulty recruiting. Is WestJet in that predicament?

[Troubleshot]

This is only the beginning of penny pinching...get use to it. WestJet dumps all of it's money into its planes and corporate stuff, which is probably why they are so successful...I have been on the receiving end of this over the simplest expenses that I incurred on training and was hounded like dog until I paid them back. So long story short when it comes to expenses and WestJet check westnet first and if it not on the site check with your manager or you will be one the hook for it no matter how try and explain it to "Bean Land".

[Mustard]

Flightlevels ease up on the koolaid.

Why not help the new guy? He'll be helping the new guys in the future and it all works out in the end.

The couple grand he will save now will be appreciated a lot more than the little bit of profit sharing he
will lose in the future when he making the big bucks.

[Rotten Apple #1]

FlightLevels...very classy response

One airline I worked at said they wanted the new hire pilots in the hotel throughout the training, regardless of base assignment, so that 100% attention could be focused on the learning process.

I thought that was a classy approach.

I've been here 5 years and my vote would be for accomodations for the new hires, but problem is we don't vote on such matters. Employees like myself and Flightlevels just fly the company's airplanes.

Best of luck 3down+loct. You'll find a room for the course that shouldn't cost you dear.

[Flightlevels]

Tim Tam etc.

The answer is simple. Move here. If you have the attitude that the pay isn't enough. Don't come. There are lots of other people out there willing to move here. Give up thier homes/ apartments and move. Yes it's tight but maybe it should be part of your future planning when you make the "move to the big airline" job. Again, tell the people in the interview that it won't float or better yet, don't take the interview. Yes I've been here for a few years, why does this have any weight to the conversation?

Here's a simple phrase. "you make your own bed"

kinda fitting

[tonysoprano]

Great answer. WTF is that?
FL, the evil empire puts you up in hotels (nice ones too) and flies you home on weekends during traning. Come on WJPA, have some balls. If you have such a great relationship with your employer, I'm sure they'll at least give it a look. The worse they can say is no and give you some kind of koolaid drenched reason for not accepting it. And while you're at it, ask them to pay for some nice headsets too.

[Flightlevels]

you always make me laugh Tony. Go look after your own shop now. It needs help.
Next when they start commuting they will say - I don't get a good sleep at the commuter house or my buddys couch.

So my point is, what is more important or the difference for that matter? Not getting a good sleep during GS or not getting a good sleep before you go flying people around in an airplane?

again, keep it simple and move here or accept the bed you make. It really isn't rocket science Tony.

I'm happy you have a headset and I'm happy you fly them home too. (they get free commuting here for 3 months when they start)

lame reply. I can see you are itching for us to get the same as "you" I'll have to ask...do you really care what we have at the end of the day? do you lose sleep? Probably not.

[tonysoprano]

FL.
Of course I make you laugh, or is it miserable? Sometimes you just gotta say, "yep, we could improve on that". I know, it goes against the koolaid effect but being humble (now and then) is an outstanding character trait. FL, I gotta say you are coming across funnier than me on this one. Most descent airlines in the world put their pilots up in hotels during initial training. After that, they can live anywhere they want. If I understand you correct (sorry but I'm a little dumbfounded on this one) you expect people to live in YYC right from day one? I hope not. And as for those commuter houses, I know guys that use them and have no complaints. I hear some WJ guys use them too. Cheaper than hotels too. Stop looking for stupid reasons to be different and join the rest of the real world.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Menses.

[Flightlevels]

yes it is both of our times of the month.



had to google that one!

I guess it boils down to the bottom line as I mentioned before. Maybe that's why we are still hiring and others aren't Could be just another job to some, but at least it's stable...headset or not. you are notified one week after your interview if you made it, you are given a formal letter one month prior to gs, you are given 3 months of free commuting...hopefully one can sort out accomodations by then! ya, Tony is right we aren't like other airlines! No you have never made me miserable.

[tonysoprano]

I guess it boils down to the bottom line as I mentioned before.

As in money? That's pretty naive. Is that why AC is in doom and gloom? Because we put newhires in hotels? I think a company that is making "tons of cash" like yours can afford to put out-of-town newhires in a descent hotel near the capital of ranchland and keep the hired hands happy. No, it's not about the money FL. It's all, well, apples and oranges. Kind of ironic to be treated so good during the interview process only to be told you're on your own when you start the course. My understanding is that YYC based newbies don't get the motel benefit (which I can almost accept) but why not the others? Anyway, look, you're right. Why should I care about what newhires at WJ will experience? If you don't, I don't. Great to be senior isn't it?

[neophyte]

I can see how paying for courses for initial hires can be a slippery slope and it has obviously struck a nerve here. Do we pay for pilots only. FAs and Pilots? Why not AMEs? It could add up quick against the bottom line, and in the end that is all I care about.

When put into perspective, I would rather get a $2000 profit share cheque twice a year for the next 30 years than have no PS and get my accomodations paid during a 6 week initial training course.

Again, that is just my opinion.

Neo

[Four1oh]

I consider the first 2 years as proof of your keenness to be part of something bigger than 'just another airline job'. I had to suffer through it, and so did every other pilot (about 1000 now) at Westjet. So sorry it's tough going, but until that stack of resumes a mile high dwindle down and we 'need' to offer employment incentives, I don't see the reason for paying for hotels. As Tony said, AC takes care of the hotels, and if it's that much of an issue to you, head on over to the easter-egg-blue team and have fun, seeya lata.

[3down&loct]

Guys, I really did not intend to stir the pot on this issue. I was well aware of my responsibities in terms of accomodation.
My intent was to simply get some good gen on where to get some good rates on accomodations. I would appreciate if we could stick to the spirit of the original question. In the mean time thanks for those that provided some info on accomodations. More info is certainly welcome.