Logbook to TC

[Strega]

Who would "certify" your book

I will gladly offer to sign both of your logbooks
if that will settle this argument. I understand that
in the future, my signature and a $10 bill will get
you a coffee at Starbucks

How about timmys?

[just curious]

2 coffees and a honey cruller.

[mcrit]

Strega, I've had a/c owners certify my times on their a/c when I worked freelance. The same would apply to a person who has never actually worked as a pilot. Now, if they had done all the flying on an a/c that they owned, it would come down to a judgement call on the part of the fellow signing off the rating.

[Strega]

Strega, I've had a/c owners certify my times on their a/c when I worked freelance. The same would apply to a person who has never actually worked as a pilot. Now, if they had done all the flying on an a/c that they owned, it would come down to a judgement call on the part of the fellow signing off the rating.

What is there to judge?
It seems as though you are stuck living in liberal land where nothing is allowed except for wich is permitted.

[mcrit]

Strega, you still haven't shown me the CAR that says TC has to accept your word for certification, nor have to addressed the issue of due diligence.

[Strega]

Mcrit,

If the certification is not defined, then ANYONE can certify your book!


This has nothing to do with due dilligence, this has to do with some civil servant, following their work instructions, and then checking to see all the numbers in your book add up.

In your case, who gave the aircraft owner, that you freelanced for, the authority to certify your book?

[mcrit]

Due diligence forms part of that civil servant's duties. He is required to take reasonable steps to ensure that the entries are correct. He can accept them at face value if there is nothing there that makes his spidy sense tingle, or he can send it back to you and ask you for proof (I've seen cases where that happened). The CARs state that you must have the time, and that is what the TC is obligated to ensure.
By signing your log book the a/c owner is verifying that the times you claim on his a/c are correct. It's really just like signing a letter along the lines of "I have examined so and so's log and the times on a/c XXXX are correct".
Do you have a CARs reference that says TC must accept your word when it comes to log entries?
Let's try a scenario here (open to anyone that would like to reply). You are the poor deskbound individual that gets a logbook infront of you. It shows that the pilot in question has flown 8 hrs per day continuously (but has respected the the minimum crew rest and max hrs crew hours) since the start of the book. He has just exactly 1500hrs and is applying for an ATPL. There is no stamp or signature (aside from the pilot in question's) verifying the time. Do you sign off this guy's ATPL or send it back and ask for verification? Bear in mind that it's your signature on the license and if something is not right you will be the one called on the carpet.
Conversly, same logbook times and pattern, but now there is a stamp from the local charter op signed by their CP (Who's signature you have seen before).

[Strega]

Due diligence forms part of that civil servant's duties. He is required to take reasonable steps to ensure that the entries are correct. He can accept them at face value if there is nothing there that makes his spidy sense tingle, or he can send it back to you and ask you for proof (I've seen cases where that happened). The CARs state that you must have the time, and that is what the TC is obligated to ensure.
By signing your log book the a/c owner is verifying that the times you claim on his a/c are correct. It's really just like signing a letter along the lines of "I have examined so and so's log and the times on a/c XXXX are correct".
Do you have a CARs reference that says TC must accept your word when it comes to log entries?
Let's try a scenario here (open to anyone that would like to reply). You are the poor deskbound individual that gets a logbook infront of you. It shows that the pilot in question has flown 8 hrs per day continuously (but has respected the the minimum crew rest and max hrs crew hours) since the start of the book. He has just exactly 1500hrs and is applying for an ATPL. There is no stamp or signature (aside from the pilot in question's) verifying the time. Do you sign off this guy's ATPL or send it back and ask for verification? Bear in mind that it's your signature on the license and if something is not right you will be the one called on the carpet.
Conversly, same logbook times and pattern, but now there is a stamp from the local charter op signed by their CP (Who's signature you have seen before).

Do you have one that says they cannot?



Your signature is your word, most people in aviation dont realize this.


If the case as you mentioned happend, I would not ask the applicant for proof, I would get on the phone with the currnet owner/operator of the plane to see if the JL matched, that simple. if all of the times matched, then the civil servant has no choice but to approve the application.

[mcrit]

So, you don't have a reference, or a broader legal premis to to support your statement, and you wouldn't just trust the guys word in the example given.

[Strega]

legally,

If you had a logbook full of BS time, with a journey log, that supported it,

TCCA would have no choice but to issue you the license.

Im certain this has happend more than once.

[AUGER9]

The logbook is a legal document. Falsifying entries can be considered fraud, and you accept this when you sign off your own logbook.

Do you have a CARs reference that says TC must accept your word when it comes to log entries?

That's not really how laws work. Usually laws are there to tell you what you can't do, not what you can. In other words, you have to show us where it says they can't accept out legal signature, not the other way around.

[Strega]

Thanks auger

[mcrit]

Auger, the concept of Due Diligence means that the fellow signing off your license can require further proof of your times beyond your own signature. At least that is the way one of my former students (a lawyer) explained it to me. If we have any members of the Bar here that would like to settle this one for us (pro bono ) I'd be interested in hearing what they had to say.

[AUGER9]

I understand your argument, however, you don't need further proof beyond your own signature. Heck, you can even email them an electronic logbook.
Why, here are some examples of how easy it can be: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... pl+logbook

[mcrit]

I see where you are coming from Auger, and there is certainly nothing to stop TC from taking your signature as certification if they are comfortable with your times and everything appears above board. This is what happens most of the time. However, if there is something in the log that piques their interest the person signing of the license or rating has the perogative to require further proof that your times are correct.

[Strega]

Mcrit,


What happens when your logbook is full of BS (as in your example), and your CP or OM "certifies" it?