Holy Crap!

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:24 pm

I was just glancing through the latest edition of “From the Ground Up” I haven’t really read the whole thing before, and haven’t looked at it for many years (20 ish maybe). Anyways for those of you planning your next glassy water landing, ….

I quote from it (I shit you not):

“Glassy water, … try to land along a weed bed, … if necessary land in the weeds.”

Land in the weeds??? Holy crap!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:39 pm

Here's another quote from P.298 in my FTGU.

"If caught with a DEAD ENGINE over glassy water and beyond gliding distance of a shoreline or weed-bed, consider throwing out loose cushions or other items that will float on the surface and provide a visual clue as to the height of the aircraft above the water."

If my engine quits, the last thing you'll find me doing is trying to to throw anything out the window. Well, maybe me, if I have a parachute on.

-istp

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:09 am

Hornblower not sure why you find this so hard to believe. It is not uncommon for the water depth to be 15 plus feet in the summer. That is if it is the depth that has you concerned. Not sure what you are flying but any float plane I ever flew 4 feet or less was adequate. Now in saying that I certainly don't go looking for a weed bed in order to do a glassy water landing but I certainly wouldn't shy away from one neither.

I don't think they are referring to bull rushes that grow 6 feet out of the water but rather surface type ones.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:10 pm

something like that?

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:19 pm

nevermind

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:08 pm

Looks like Anaconda/ Boa Constrictor territory to me...

I'll take my chances with a controlled descent in the middle of that mangrove, thanks very much.

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:08 pm

Hornblower,
To get into a small lake on a calm day you have to use some sort of reference. If you don't have the luxury of setting up nose-high and wait till she touches, a weed bed is a perfect way to get a reference as to where the atmosphere ends and the earth begins. I will often set up so as to flare right on top of the bed, and like CL said, weeds (grass), not a forrest of cat tails. In the event of no-weeds, you have to get as tight to the shore as possible and have good peripheral vision.

PT6-114A · Post by **PT6-114A** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:21 am

I was ALWAYS told to look out for ducks standing on the water!!!

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:59 pm

Well thanks to CL and Cloudy for clearing up the confusion. Clearly the book is right, and I will always land in weed beds from now on, … well maybe not right away. How about CL and Cloudy land in the weeds for a while, and not just in glassy water, do it every time you can find one. Why if you’re goin’ into a lake and there is lots of weedless space and no rocks, but a weed bed out in the middle or along one shore, why just go land in that weed bed. Do it every day, do it when it’s raining, do it when it’s sunny, … just do it all the time.

So say around next September, give us a shout and tell us how it went. And if you are in the position to teach some young whippersnapper how to fly floats, like the aforementioned book purports to do, tell him to land in the weeds too. Why not start a weed landing club. Might be hard to get insurance for your members though.

Sheesh!, … I kinda knew when I was writing the original post that sure enough I would hear from some weed bed advocates. It never fails.

Of course It’s not the weeds I’m concerned about, although they do tend to foul the water rudders, … it’s the embedded granite that I have issues with.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:28 pm

istp wrote:Here's another quote from P.298 in my FTGU.

"If caught with a DEAD ENGINE over glassy water and beyond gliding distance of a shoreline or weed-bed, consider throwing out loose cushions or other items that will float on the surface and provide a visual clue as to the height of the aircraft above the water."

If my engine quits, the last thing you'll find me doing is trying to to throw anything out the window. Well, maybe me, if I have a parachute on.

-istp

Right, like they'd be any f*****g use behind you anyways. And how many removable cushions does the average float plane have anyhow. I can just hear the boss now, ... "not only did you f**k up my engine, you threw out my god damn upholstery"

Can't you just see yourself trying get the seat cushion out from under the big fat ass in the right seat while trying to figure out where to land the airplane in ensuing 45 seconds.

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:38 pm

Hornyblower, it was suggested to me once, by a very wise man .."it's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt. "I wish you could have met him.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:19 pm

cloudrunner wrote:Hornyblower, it was suggested to me once, by a very wise man .."it's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt. "I wish you could have met him.

So what were you talking about when he told you that?

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:32 pm

I think Hornblower won that one, Cloudrunner.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:43 pm

Maybe hornblower was trying to point out that the advice given about landing in weeds needed some further explaining?

I don't have the book handy but there are weed beds and there are weed beds.

Weeds are great for getting in short on short lakes with glassy water when used as a flare point for height judgement, some weeds such as water lillys grow in water deep enough to safely land in....I have dropped many a water lilly that I scooped during bombing operations but don't recall ever wanting to pull the power and have the beast settle down in the water coming off the step just to see how long the water lillys really were.

....however as a broad statement of advice I would not council people to land in weed beds as a standard method of landing in glassy water conditions.

As far as throwing a cushion in the water when you lose an engine to make ripples on the water,....well that one needs a little more time to discuss than I have now.....

Cat

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:55 am

So what were you talking about when he told you that? Asks Hornblower..

Well, I believe I was 11 years old and he was refering to my cousin who just stuck his foot so far in his mouth he was sh*tting shoe polish...but nice effort.

And as for the fact that it needs some more explaining Cat.. I think you are right.. I am confident you could be much more diplomatic with mr. blower than myself considering my disdain for his attitude towards somebody who was merely trying to chime in on something he was so obviously completely ignorant about ...and not for a minute was I suggesting that people go around plopping down in the middle of weed beds as a standard practice...rounding out over the weed bed for reference...yes.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:36 am

Gee Hornblower you really are a F***ing idiot. In your original post you made it sound like anyone landing in weeds would have to be some alien with no brains about float flying. I mereley stated that it is an option that should be considered and can safely be used if needed.

If you were to actually read my post, I also stated: Now in saying that I certainly don't go looking for a weed bed in order to do a glassy water landing but I certainly wouldn't shy away from one neither.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:22 pm

OK, before I start getting berated- when I wrote MY original reply, I imagined myself in the single engine planes I fly. (Multi-rating coming soon!)

I suppose if you're light, and in a twin, you could throw some stuff in the water to ripple it, and you've got time to decide what to do. Maybe do a precautionary look around, then grease that lake like it's never been greased before. (Or do float guys have a different term for a smooth landing?)

End clarification.

-istp

pilotbc69 · Post by **pilotbc69** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:31 pm

Is there a website for the Weed Landing club? Sounds like a it would hoot. (pun intended)

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:21 pm

I think we are in for a glassy water discussion much like the down wind turn stuff...

Fasten your seat belts troops, it could be entertaining.

Cat

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:02 pm

istp wrote:
I suppose if you then grease that lake like it's never been greased before. (Or do float guys have a different term for a smooth landing?)

End clarification.

-istp

Yes we do. We can't tell you what it is until you take the rating . Sorry, no exceptions.

You're are aware that grease and water don't mix.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:02 pm

CLguy wrote:Gee Hornblower you really are a F***ing idiot. ...
If you were to actually read my post, I also stated: Now in saying that I certainly don't go looking for a weed bed in order to do a glassy water landing but I certainly wouldn't shy away from one neither.

Gee, … name calling …
I understood your post, I think you didn’t read mine. My comment was referring to a statement in a book written to teach abinitos. Cat Driver understood. Did I say you can’t land in weeds? No. I think that to make the statement that the proper technique for landing in glassy water is in any available weedbed is just stupid, especially without qualifying it by describing any of the hazards of doing so.

As for landing in weed beds, well what the heck does “I certainly don't go looking for a weed bed in order to do a glassy water landing but I certainly wouldn't shy away from one neither.” mean? Either you would or you wouldn’t pick one, which is it? As for me I would recommend that you do shy away from them, but since you don’t think much of my opinions, fill your boots. Who knows, you might even stay lucky.

By the way istp, in case there is any confusion, I’m in full agreement with your first statement. It’s highly unlikely that a person would either A.) have the time, B.) have the inclination, C.) have the need, or D.) have the cushions, to risk their neck throwing shit out of a plane that will land in the water behind you.

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:10 pm

Cat Driver wrote:I think we are in for a glassy water discussion much like the down wind turn stuff...

Fasten your seat belts troops, it could be entertaining.

Cat

Naw ., That was never my intention, I was merely pointing out a stupid unqualified statement contained in what is considered (or so I understand) to be the abinitio flight training bible here in Canada. At which point I got blindsided.

Anyway, to all those weedbed landers out there, best of luck, and .... Bottoms up! (pun intended)

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:17 pm

If I had to do a forced landing onto glassy water, you bet I'd look for and use a weed bed if it was available.

The seat cushion would be easy to find too ...It'd be up my ass!

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:25 pm

hornblower wrote: I was merely pointing out a stupid unqualified statement contained in what is considered (or so I understand) to be the abinitio flight training bible here in Canada. At which point I got blindsided.

Actually hornblower...it's not a stupid or unqualified statement....wherein lies the problem, that you never heard a word that any of us said...

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:33 pm

hornblower wrote: As for me I would recommend that you do shy away from them, but since you don’t think much of my opinions, fill your boots. Who knows, you might even stay lucky.

hornblower, do you have any idea who you are giving advice to in this case...and what kind of time he must have to do what he does? Do you even know what a CL is? I am curious at this point what your qualifications/ratings are?