Harbour Air pay.........ummmm...not so much

[overbooster]

I hear HA is short pilots.....starting wage is 25. Can anyone live in the lower mainland for this? Perhaps you could collect enough cardboard boxes and duct tape and find a nice wide bridge and build a fort. Run a long cord from someones house so you can power up your iron to make sure your tie looks good. Steal plate stickers to keep your car legal or ride a bike. Always have a flask of whiskey so you can keep warm. Maybe since its day vfr you could work at subway in the evenings (for almost as much and you might get a free sub to keep fed). The lower mainland and pilot wages is a disgrace for a developed country. Im sure people hired to walk dogs or mix lattes make almost as much. The self prostitution continues. Good on us.....good on us.

[iflyforpie]

25? Like 25,000 per year? Heck why not for free lol!!!

[HuD 91gt]

I do believe it's 25 per hour. I also assume that is per duty hour.

[just curious]

You don't need the whiskey. Vancouver isn't cold

[twotter]

It is in fact per duty hour with overtime after 173 hrs/month. This is the starting wage on the -2 and is negotiable with experience. Most guys don't spend too terribly long before getting upgraded to the -3T with the increase in wages that goes with it. Winter gives you a minimum of 160 hours regardless of what you actually work so it's sure a whole lot better than the EI that you will get by working for some other companies.

Winter.. 160x25=4000
Summer 173x25=4325 + say 35x37.5=5637.5.. and that would be fairly slow in the summer..
Seems not too bad a starting wage that will only go up.. There is also a revenue sharing program and great health and flight benefits to be had..

[Unusual Attitude]

Overbooster, nice first post. I think you should look for that job walking dogs and mixing lattes. Twotter describes the pay very well -- the progress is quick and in a few years you'll be making $65k plus. Harbour Air is an excellent company to work for and the pay and days of are equal to or better than any other outfit on the coast.

[cubonfloats]

ive seen Hire-Beaver-Otter happen in as low as 4-5 months! obviously depends on the need, and attitude/skill of pilot.
great place to work!

Harbour Air pay........ummmmmm..very reasonable and fair!

[overbooster]

Thats because they mainly fly (otters). I guess people on here have been bending over and taking it so many years that they are happy with any pay. I guess its along the same lines as all the other crap paying jobs in bc aviation (cma, pasco). I just think that HA presents itself as the world leader of floats etc etc....but you would still have to struggle to support your family working there. Always hiring...always short pilots...why??? Pay people more and they will stay. Im sure its a good place to work with lots of perks...interline...profit share etc...but at the end of the day you go to work to earn a good wage. I just think its obviously a company that could pay more but just chooses not to as pilots are viewed as the bottom rung of the operation.

[cubonfloats]

....but you would still have to struggle to support your family working there. Always hiring...always short pilots...why??? Pay people more and they will stay. Im sure its a good place to work with lots of perks...interline...profit share etc...but at the end of the day you go to work to earn a good wage.

huh? if people stick around for any length of time, they can be making 80-85/yr. i HARDLY call that struggling to support a family....unless you have 13 kids...not to mention you can spend time with your family while flying for HA..home almost every night of the year...maybe around 8pm in the summer..as early as 4 in the winter! 4 days a week year-round.I wouldnt complain..

[Cat Driver]

Any idea why they wouldn't hire you overbooster?

By the way here is a free bit of advice, you can prevent overboosting by not using excessive throttle.

[grud]

huh? if people stick around for any length of time, they can be making 80-85/yr. i HARDLY call that struggling to support a family....unless you have 13 kids...not to mention you can spend time with your family while flying for HA..home almost every night of the year...maybe around 8pm in the summer..as early as 4 in the winter! 4 days a week year-round.I wouldnt complain..

Harbour Air pay is a joke for the hours you have to put in. Yes you may only have to work 4 days a week, but you have to work about 14 hours a day. Then most have to drive another hour to get home, try to have a late dinner, maybe get 6 hours of sleep, get up at 4:30 in the morning and do it all over again. On your first day off you are too tired to do anything, and your third day off you have to be in bed by 8 to do it all over again. If you think working 14 hour days, 225 hours a month and only making 80-85 grand a year is good, than Harbour Air will be happy to have you.

Ps I worked for them for 4 years, and did not even come close to making 80-85, I quit, and in my first year after leaving I made close to 90 and had more time at home than HA offered.

[shinysideup]

Where are you working now Grud?

Looking to get back on floats myself!!

[ragbagflyer]

What do you suggest is a better way to pay then Grub? They are already paying based on duty hours with OT after a certain ammount of work. 14 hour days are one thing if you're getting mileage only and you go to work for 14 hours and sit around in the fog not flying, but being payed for duty time is another story. Don't the otter drivers get payed in the 30 dollar per hour neighbourhood? You certainly can't say these guys are working for free. From the outside it seems like a pretty fair deal.

[grud]

I am not here to suggest how they should pay, I am just saying it is not enough. When I fly a Beaver I make more than their Otter drivers. I would not even get out of bed for 30 dollars an hour.

[cubonfloats]

what about the days their beaver pilots are on 'standby' they are paid for the whole day to keep their cell phones on and not get too far out of sight. bring in some dvds, study for that atpl, workout, sleep!

for their hard work in the summer, it gets paid off in the winter. but hey, if your making more and working less elsewhere, then i can see why you wouldnt want to come back. fair enough.
but id take a job anyday with HA before i get spoiled

[grud]

what about the days their beaver pilots are on 'standby' they are paid for the whole day to keep their cell phones on and not get too far out of sight. bring in some dvds, study for that atpl, workout, sleep!

You trying to tell me that they bring Beaver pilots in have them sit around all day. Don’t try to shit me Cubon like I said I worked there. They may have one beaver pilot come in for standby, but not pilots. The other ones on the schedule are told the night before that they are not needed and that they are to be on call, without pay of course.



But I am glad you would take a job with them, someone has to. If you want to work from dawn to dusk for chicken shit wages, then who i am I to say anything.

[Cat Driver]

grud I take it you quit HA and are flying a Beaver for Rick Baxter?

[grud]

grud I take it you quit HA and are flying a Beaver for Rick Baxter?

Why would you think that, they pay even less than Harbour Air.

[cubonfloats]

You trying to tell me that they bring Beaver pilots in have them sit around all day. Don’t try to shit me Cubon like I said I worked there. They may have one beaver pilot come in for standby, but not pilots.

ok drop the plural, obviously they wont make several just sit around all day. but when they are on standby, they are getting paid nonetheless. and yes, its only one at a time.

what years did you work there? are we seeing the difference between the old school and the new?

[overbooster]

At least someone at last had the nuts to say it how it is. Im close enough to the HA orb to know what im talking also. Now that the industry is about to slide again im sure the guys there will be kicking themselves for not causing more of a stink for higher pay. The chance was there and missed, it seems to take a real toilet of a company like WC to find peoples breaking point. This is where HA is all the worse, the brave pretend face of being so great but wages just slightly marginally better than other coastal operators. Things will slow down and the bending over will begin again. People in other industries have the nutsacks to demand a wage that meets the risk and responsibility of the job but not in aviation. And yes i know its smaller planes but if you think of all those cycles....theres much more chance for things to go wrong. And in a long day those guys are flying just as many people as the heavies.

[fogghorn]

I think HA has it's benefits in terms of some life syle advantages, i.e. being at home everynite etc. I personally think the job should be worth (for an experienced -3 guy), around 400/day minimum in summer and some reasonable allowance for wx days. But, that'll never happen, so keep dreaming of your 80k a year and good luck supporting a family in VR on that. Mickey mcD didnt get this stinking rich being a nice guy.

[cubonfloats]

I cant believe you guys. You make it seem like earning 65+grand/year is poverty! how much are the maintenance guys making? they max out at a place like HA around 60-65k/year. I know mechanical engineers making 80/year after 20 years in the field.


fact: -3 guys/or gals start around 65k/yr (of course paid hourly, but it works out to be about that)
fact: -2 guys/or gals start around 50ish/yr (ditto, paid hourly)

fact: you get pay raises as you go, if you earn them.

fact: flights stop with less than 2SM vis. and more than 30kt sustained winds. (and i think 300 ft ceilings, may be wrong on that)

im starting to think everyone has it out just to poke some fun at me and see how far ill argue it. take a look at some other companies:

WCA - similar beaver pay but no real room for advancment after that, unless you get left seat on the twotter..as for right seat - do they pay them?? /sarcasm

CMA - start at 26k/year as F/O (after min 18 months on the ramp, or time as flight instructor)
42k/year as captian (after 4 year wait as FO)
max at 34k/year as F/O (4 years)
max at 65k/year as captian (6ish years as capt.)

Carson Air (from what ive heard) - 19k/year as FO campbell, time to raise that minimum wage!

orca/KD - dont know, but id image less than CMA even.


point is...you wont catch me complaining. im sorry you people live through life as bitter as you do. cheer up, retirement will come soon enough...where you'll be making even less.

[cubonfloats]

oh, and....grud and overbooster...are you the same person?

and you both just signed onto this forum JUST to complain about HA pay? thats very strange... very strange... this reminds me of another thread.... found in the maintenance section ...about BCIT and its graduates....half of those people joined the forum to battle it out.

[cloudrunner]

I guess if you are just working your way up the ladder, 65K sounds pretty good. Then there's reality.

What's the tax rate in Canada for 65K earnings? 30%?

So you take home 45K per year, $3750 per month on average.

Living in Vancouver I am guessing $1400 per month to house a family of 4, $600 for food, another $400 for bills including TV, internet, utilities etc, $200 for gas for the car, $100 for car insurance, $100 cell phones, $300 for diapers, clothes, toys etc. for the kids. Does the wife go to work to earn enough to pay for daycare or stay home? Your choice.

Don't think about buying anything nice cause you've got $750 bucks left and maybe you want to do something crazy like save for a downpayment on a house or put the money away for your kids to go to a good school and university. You better make that car last cause there's not a shiny new one on your horizon anywhere soon. Don't worry, those fancy new movies at the theatre will be on DVD in a few months.. you can see it then.

Pretty hard to imagine that scenario when guys flying floats internationally are clearing 6 figures working 30 hrs/wk and tanker guys are up in th 6 figure range working 4-5 months per year. With all the talk from the "experts" that to fly the coast, you have to be a cut above, makes one think that you all need some superior negotiating skills to go with your stick and rudder prowess.

[xsbank]

Cloud is right about the salary, although his estimates for Vancouver are low.

Vancouver, on average, has the lowest wages in Canada (in our industry). Even that outfit that runs the deluxe business jets is the laughing stock of the industry, and they wonder why they have high turnover?