What was the most difficult procedure for you?

[Guzen]

(during private and/or commercial training)?

Thanks.

[square]

Forced approaches fail more kids than anything

[C23flyer]

Diversions...trying to get the a/c set-up so I could do my planning, then doing my planning while trying to fly the plane. I'm not much of a multi-tasker. Anyone know any exercises to get my over-the-hill brain working on more than one level?

[200hr Wonder]

Diversions...trying to get the a/c set-up so I could do my planning, then doing my planning while trying to fly the plane. I'm not much of a multi-tasker. Anyone know any exercises to get my over-the-hill brain working on more than one level?

Funny part is I have diverted lots of times and never done anything close to what is in the book. However to pass your flight test you need to work on two things.

1. Trim
2. Trim

Take your time! Get the aircraft perfectly trimmed out so you do not bust limits. Then as you go through your process recheck. For example I use the following little ditty:

Circle circle draw a line, heading distance time, make a call you will be fine. After every step I check heading, altitude etc. so that I am doing it right. I also make sure my map is folded to the correct panel for the area!

[C23flyer]

I was trying to get things done without having to circle more than three times...but some days it just wasn't happening, with or without trim.

[MichaelP]

In the diversion exercise I suggest that PPL students can do the 'hold' so to speak, but I'd rather they know where they are at all times!
Circling is a no no; how can you work it out while turning?
By all means if you are lost fly a race track with trimmed straight legs to do your planning... But you should know where you are and get on with it!

If the weather is getting bad would you really hang around?

I suggest a turn in the general direction, slow down if you must, add a little flap for forward visibility, and fly as you would a precautionary landing. (65kts, 10 degree flap in a C152 for example).
Work it out with the aeroplane trimmed S&L, (pretend) call FSS with your ETA, tell the examiner your fuel state and the highest obstacle on your route.
Don't go direct if there's a line feature such as railway, river, or road to follow to be sure you get there.

One of my commercial students was stuck with another instructor prior to his CPL flight test (I'd gone to China). I told him that as a CPL he'd better know where he is at all times and so a turn enroute to the diversion field was appropriate.
His new instructor insisted he hold and work it out before he would be signed off for the flight test... He got a two for doing this!

I like diversions; many a time I ran into weather, landed at the nearest aerodrome, went to the village, sat at a cafe with pain au chocolat and an expresso or chocolat chaud, and watched the french girls walk by...
People ask about what they must do if they fly into IMC?
Do you have to fly into IMC?

There are no difficult procedures, only unrehearsed ones.
All the procedures we have to do can be practiced at home so that they flow in the aeroplane.

[GilletteNorth]

I always found it hardest to see the runway I needed to use at an airport when flying toward it LOL. Even if I knew exactly where it was supposed to be, I'd be surprised when I finally spotted it. Looking for other aircraft was easier to get accustomed to doing than sorting out "is that the runway? or an access road beside the airport?"

[AUGER9]

My steep turns were shiite, couldn't hold altitude for the life of me.

[Hedley]

I didn't find the Tribunal and Tribunal Appeal so bad,
but personally I found representing yourself at Federal
Court and Federal Court of Appeals probably one of
the most challenging tasks during your aviation
education.

IMHO a surface level outside loop, in line abreast
formation, is less complicated and confrontational.

[iflyforpie]

Cross country planning and execution.

I used to wonder how anybody went anywhere in airplanes doing nav logs and flight plans-at least without ripping their hair out every time.

But it makes little difference in the real world when you realize that variation could be off, deviation questionable, upper winds totally different from the forecast and the on-condition engine and faded paint on a poorly rigged aircraft not delivering the POH cruise speed. That's what drift lines and ground speed checks are for. Good exercise for your brain though.

[Rockie]

Paying for it.

[niss]

Staying positive and not let delays and setbacks get me down.

[chephy]

Paying for it.

+1000000!

And soft field landings.

[x-wind]

Knowing when not to fly

I agree with the diversion advice, definitely do not circle. Go in a general direction, unless your lost.

The forced is something you should be really really good with!

Decision making & good understanding of whats laid out in the study and reference guide.

[Old Dog Flying]

The navigation exercize has always been a problem..but only because of the complicated method being taught by most schools.

Instead of laying out the track line with 10 mile marks then having to calculate ground speed to get a re-estimate for the destination, I have taught the air force method of low level nav.

Draw the track line but then draw quarter distance marks. You pre-plan Point A to Point B and you know the total time so all you have to do is note time over A then time to 1st quarter distant mark and you have ETA for B. Simple and accurate.

The diversion should not require circling...in low vis at low altitude you are asking to get lost. Maintain your track to a point recognizable on the map and use this as the set heading point for the diversion. Turn over the point but in the mean time you know the time for each quarter distant mark...place a pencil on the diversion point to the new destination and hold that distance over the original marks on the track line and you will have the time to the new destination...and the ETA will be within 2 minutes.

As for the new track line, use a VOR compass rose, follow a road/railway/powerline/river...or what ever.

This method was in the Flying Training Manual but Very few instructors seemed to use it because the old hard line examiners would not allow it. One old CFI/DFTE failed a CP and 2 PP candidates that I had recommended and would have had her way except for a TC Inspector who sided with me and allowed the pass. I don't know how many of her students got lost between Boundary Bay and Abbotsford but there were quite a few.

Her reasoning for not allowing this method was in her mind, there were too few recognizable landmarks on the prairies or along the coast...We flew one leg from Weyburn to Assiniboia at 500' AGL without problems.

As my old Granny said "there is more than one way to skin a cat!"

[E-Flyer]

The procedure to not stress out for the flight test...

hehe

For me, it was the precautionary; mainly cause our DFTE doesn't like the way it's explained in the FTM so I had to learn an entirely new method that went against a few things I was taught b4. Only took a flight to fix though.

Otherwise, I'd say for commercial training, it's a review really. Trying to spin a stable airplane, now that was quite the skill. Got a 4 on the flight test though.

[. ._]

Landings.

[Hedley]

it was the precautionary

Good Lord. Now I've heard everything.

The precautionary is the easiest item on the flight test!

The poor students these days.

[MichaelP]

Somewhere I have the RAF flight training manual written around the Chipmunk.
In it there's an admonishment at the beginning of the Precautionary Landing lesson... Usually it is bad Pilot Decision Making that has gotten you into this situation!
I have never ever had to do a precautionary landing, my preference being to divert to a pleasant airfield and sit and wait the bad weather out. As part of my long distance flight planning I always aim to route somewhere near to airfields on the way.
Cripes, I even take the terrain into account! Wind and terrain could mean updrafts why would I fly on the lee side of a hill
Then there's all this 'ten mile' points or 'ten minute' points or whatever, nonsense... Why not use properly identifiable landmarks and who cares if they are at 13.5NM then 25.6NM and so on... Why did you buy that flight computer?

Anyway, the useful proper point of the precautionary approach is learning to determine whether a particular place is suitable for landing... It may be a strip you have used many many times, but it's been a long winter and so what state is it in now?

One thing about teaching that is important is experience... I have had a bit of experience with precautionary landings, they were well done!
Several times I have had to fetch an aeroplane after it had been involved in a real precautionary landing, and I interviewed the pilots involved... There are tales to be told.
Me? I have not put myself in such a position, I have done a fair amount of IMC flying in my early days, and I have a deep respect for the weather... I don't mess with it! I am old and less bold these days.


That's me pacing the field... I flew the Condor out with a further four gallons of mogas in its tank.
The bloke in the overalls is a training Captain for Virgin in Airbus 340s, and he still flies little aeroplanes (Pitts), and model jets!

There is nothing like being able to relate true experiences to a student rather than making statements based on the textbooks.
Indeed, instructors new to flying themselves would be well advised to read books written by the aviators of the past and therefrom be able to relate someone elses true experiences...
Two such books on my shelf here: "The Flight of the Mew Gull" by Alex Henshaw, "Spitfire" by Jeffrey Quill.

[E-Flyer]

it was the precautionary

Good Lord. Now I've heard everything.

The precautionary is the easiest item on the flight test!

The poor students these days.

I did mention that it became easy after the flight where I was introduced to a different way of doing it.

[iflyforpie]

Instead of laying out the track line with 10 mile marks then having to calculate ground speed to get a re-estimate for the destination, I have taught the air force method of low level nav.

Draw the track line but then draw quarter distance marks. You pre-plan Point A to Point B and you know the total time so all you have to do is note time over A then time to 1st quarter distant mark and you have ETA for B. Simple and accurate.

I learned this method during my CPL from a couple of ex-military instructors and it was like the lights turned on. Sure I could do the standard method but this way was a piece of cake and didn't require a bunch of conversions (who cares about ground speed when you've already got an ETA?). Couldn't use it for the flight test though.

[mpietrzak]

If you are looking for some tips on diversions I did some research and summarized the tips from my instructor here.

http://www.canadianpplexam.com/2008/06/ ... -from.html

Let me know what you think.

[xsbank]

"Couldn't use it for the flight test, though."

Why the hell not? In my career, (and likely every one's) there is always a better, safer, easier method to do 'everything.'