Speaking French on the radio

[Changes in Latitudes]

Niss, aa, Inuktitut Nakurmik!

Igloo 37, landingnuk on runwaytuk two-fourquituyk!

Assunai!

[valvelifter]

You're also saying that you can give me a fairly hefty list of 'air disasters' where the primary cause of the accident was a language barrier.

I misspoke. Perhaps not solely on communication (I am not an air disaster expert but I can maybe dig some up if I had the time) but communication in general was partly behind some of the biggest crashes in history, such as the Tenerife disaster involving two 747s. It wasn't due to a language barrier, but it just shows how important communication is. And if ATC and pilots cannot sometimes understand each other in English, and you throw in a second language, it's a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion.

And YES hats off to the Montreal (and other) traffic controllers who miraculously remember who speaks French and who doesn't. It amazes me how well and how quick they can do that. BUT I do remember a time at CYHU when a controller told me to go-around due to an animal crossing the runway, and the instruction was in French when my communication was done in English. I never saw the animal. But I understood, and went around. When I was pulling up, the controller quickly came back and repeated it in English after realizing I was the English pilot in the circuit! There was no issue there for me, but if I was an American or a pilot who did not speak French, things might have gotten complicated. Imagine if it was a bigger jet coming in faster... These are real world examples of both languages risking safety. You will never read these in the CARs or AIM.

[ski_bum]

I accept the risk that one day I may not come home, but I am trying to do every possible thing that I can to make sure I do... This is why I put enough fuel in my tanks, do a good walkaround, check weather, familiarize myself with where I am going before I head out. But none of this matters if I can't understand a call from someone who I think may be in my vicinity, or may be a conflict,

What about learning the language that is used by some to communicate in the area where you are flying? I'd think that'd be an good way to help improve safety. Would you fly everyday in Germany without learning German? Heck would you drive, or live in Germany without learning German?

If I was moving to Germany, yes I would learn German. If I moved to Quebec, I would learn French... etc etc.

Maybe I should learn French? Maybe you should just speak in English? Maybe we should open up 126.70 to all languages,

Yes, maybe you should learn French. Whats the harm?!? And no, 126.7 is open to the official languages of Canada. English and French. Theres no need for more, there's no need for less.

All I hope that if your speaking French, and you hear someone speaking in English on the radio, you have the courtesy to speak in English so we know what's going on...

At an ATF or an maybe even MF, I can understand that request. Heck even on 126.7 But in controlled airspace, theres no need. Pilots talk to controllers, controllers talk to pilots.

Commercial pilots have a lot of tools helping them avoid conflicts. A controller looking at a radar screen, a TCAS system in the plane, their eyes looking out the window, and their ears listening on the frequency. You're all complaining about the radio. Does this mean you folks feel uncomfortable in uncontrolled airspace west of Quebec where the radio is in English but there's no controller to give you warnings?

All I am trying to get at is "AIRMANSHIP" for the same reason I don't blast people on a ramp when I am taxiing away, let planes go ahead of me when I am not in a rush, and just plain old think of others out there doing the same job that I am doing. Common courtesy would tell me if I was speaking french on the radio and heard someone in English clearly not from around the patch bombing around, maybe I should speak in English too? If you don't agree with that, well then don't give me shit when we have a close call sometime... or I challenge you to this... Fly into uncontrolled airspace in Northern MB speaking French pretending you don't understand english, your ballon knot will be so tight you won't shit for a week... This is how we feel when we fly into Quebec.

[Cat Driver]

Ski-Bum:::

You are wasting your time trying to reason with small penguin, especially when it comes to using the word " airmanship " when discussing things with him/her.

To understand the meaning of airmanship you first must understand the basics of flying, go back and read the posts this gem has written here.

[ski_bum]

I have to agree with you Cat...

Common courtesy and respect is Airmanship, I respect that this country is bilingual, however just like everything there is a time and a place...

[Donald]

But in controlled airspace, theres no need. Pilots talk to controllers, controllers talk to pilots.

This little gem about sums up the experience of "petit penguin".

Trust me, I will be doing my best to avoid "your" airport.

[small penguin]

All I am trying to get at is "AIRMANSHIP" for the same reason I don't blast people on a ramp when I am taxiing away, let planes go ahead of me when I am not in a rush, and just plain old think of others out there doing the same job that I am doing. Common courtesy would tell me if I was speaking french on the radio and heard someone in English clearly not from around the patch bombing around, maybe I should speak in English too? If you don't agree with that, well then don't give me shit when we have a close call sometime... or I challenge you to this... Fly into uncontrolled airspace in Northern MB speaking French pretending you don't understand english, your ballon knot will be so tight you won't shit for a week... This is how we feel when we fly into Quebec.

If the pilots you are referring to are flying around an ATF/MF, yes, I'd agree switching to English would be a 'better' idea. But at the same time, its assuming those pilots can communicate clearly in English. I know a few people/pilots who barely get by in English, some, not at all.

And the same is expected backwards. A French speaking pilot is (IMHO) expected to communicate in English if flying into an ATF in Manitoba. If a pilot cant, just think of it as flying a circuit with a nordo/ronly aircraft.

Donald - Cheers! If you're flying a Lear or similar I dont want you here anyways

[valvelifter]

And the same is expected backwards. A French speaking pilot is (IMHO) expected to communicate in English if flying into an ATF in Manitoba. If a pilot cant, just think of it as flying a circuit with a nordo/ronly aircraft.

Interesting solution.

"If they don't understand me or I can't understand them, I just won't say anything"

The problem is that the other traffic has to guess as to whether or not that silent aircraft is indeed NORDO or just plain shy... And with your solution an aircraft will toggle between non-NORDO and NORDO when entering different zones, all depending if he/she can understand the communication.

That'll solve everything...

[AuxBatOn]

SP, there might be no real need, but for the sakes of everyone's SA, it would be better to do everything in English. No I don't rely solely on comms for my safety, but if I can use it, I will. It reduces the risks associated with flying. Why shut off your radio when you have a functionning one? If I use your reasonning, a Dash 8 pilot should shut down 1 engine in flight because you can still fly on 1. Why use 2?

[small penguin]

And the same is expected backwards. A French speaking pilot is (IMHO) expected to communicate in English if flying into an ATF in Manitoba. If a pilot cant, just think of it as flying a circuit with a nordo/ronly aircraft.

Interesting solution.

"If they don't understand me or I can't understand them, I just won't say anything"

I didnt say the pilot should switch his/her radio off. I said that if you encounter a situation where there's a pilot you dont understand (be it language barrier or even a faulty/weak radio!) that should remind you that there is even the possibility of nordo/ronly, and as such, your focus of security should be eyes out the window, rather than trying to pay extra attention to the radio.

Whats worst? Hearing a traffic you cant understand, or flying with the assumption that there is no nordo/ronly when in fact there is.

it would be better to do everything in the same language.

The above statement corrected AuxBatOn, I agree that things would be better using the same language. Regardless of what language is actually used. But it depends on the situation. Major airports in Quebec, most will (do?) want English. But Im sure the smaller airports would all rather be in French. Could be wrong. Just my 2 cents.

[Dash-Ate]

I wonder...


Any way glad all is ok


http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoe ... 5ee27be4d3


No injuries after Air France jumbo jet skids off Montreal runway: Police
Canwest News Service
Published: Tuesday, August 26, 2008
MONTREAL - An Air France Boeing 747 arriving from Paris skidded off the runway at Montreal's Trudeau International airport after it landed Tuesday afternoon.

"The plane overshot the runway when it landed and got stuck in the grass," said Laurent Gingras of Montreal police. "There were no injuries."

Video of the airplane shows no signs of major damage.

[cetteuqap]

OH for heaven's sake get over it. This is an old debate and furthermore there are new Transport laws with language requirements coming out so the problem will be reduced.

[Cat Driver]

Transport is going to outlaw French in Quebec?

[flying4dollars]

I see clearly your point. But do you understand what you are asking?

Ladies and gentleman, speak my language please, I want to understand what you say....

Do you know which is the first language on earth??? Have a guess..... Wrong! Chinese.

Do you imagine in 20 years chinese people on chinese forums complaining because you dont speak chinese when they come to fly to your city? What will you feel in your heart, I mean HONNESTLY?

Yes agreed, speaking the same language is better for the understanding, especially for the one who can clearly speak and understand it.
But the world is the world. If you add russian, french, italian, chinese, indian, german, spanish ect... well, thats over 85% of the world that is more comfortable speaking an other language than english...

So yes if we all speak the same language (wich is not the case), it would be better for aviation.
But understand that what you ask, and knowing it comes from somebody whom tongue mother is english, it's a bit arrogant, even if you are right, you are already lucky enough not being imposed to learn a specific language just to do your job.

arrogant? how is he being arrogant. he/she made a great point.

i cant count how many times ive heard a certain carrier making 126.7 calls in french before (sometimes by mistake) around an area of fairly high density for uncontrolled airspace and I'm cruisin along wondering if they'll show up on tcas or my windscreen...

[BibleMonkey]

Any pilot that relies solely upon his comm radio to provide safety is a fool.

Bon point. Vous avez besoin d'un pied de lapin dans votre poche de pantalon, et un quatre trèfle de feuille pour la sécurité de chien de double.

Jesus , that online translator is terrible.

I typed in " Good Point. You need a rabbits foot in your pants pocket, and a four leaf clover for double dog safety "

-and it ^ comes out in french as:

" Good not at all. You need a rabbit foot in your pants pocket, and a four clovers of leaf for the security of dog of double. " lol
As long as " Mayday " is the same.....
=================

There are 800,000 words in the English language, and only 100,000 in French. We are winning.

[jetflightinstructor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvrbMjDv ... re=related

Yes better to speak the same language.

[North Shore]

Do you know which is the first language on earth??? Have a guess..... Wrong! Chinese.

And further, when those "Chinese" speakers learn a second language, generally, which one is it? Pas Francais, mon ami. (not French, old chap )
Likewise the several hundred million people in India, and many other countries in the world..English all the way..

[scopiton]

Likewise the several hundred million people in India, and many other countries in the world..English all the way..

why ?
becasue they're old english colonies... as canada is....and still be........
may be you would all speak indian or inuit on the radio if you would have your independance..., no?

[sugarfree]

What does old english colonaies have to do with Air safety??

The opinions seemed to be based on frustration and on the fact that some have to learn a second language.

The default language is English .. so live with it.

[petpad]

sad debate, I read more hatred than real safety issues here

[bmc]

It would be nice if this thread had some substance to it.

How many accidents have occured since bilingual communications came into being?

Here is Switzerland, you will hear French, German, Italian and English on the air.

I went to a local flyin a while back. Since arriving aircraft were coming in from all over, the language used by all was English. It was spoken with German, French and Italian accents.

I think the issue on this thread is less about air safety and more about hating Quebec and the french that go with it.

I could be wrong.

[Caracrane]

you put the finger on it!

[North Shore]

hating Quebec and the french that go with it.

I don't think so; it's more annoyance at the French tail wagging the Canadian dog.

[jetflightinstructor]

Quote:
Do you know which is the first language on earth??? Have a guess..... Wrong! Chinese.


And further, when those "Chinese" speakers learn a second language, generally, which one is it? Pas Francais, mon ami. (not French, old chap )
Likewise the several hundred million people in India, and many other countries in the world..English all the way..

Yes sure man! You are right! You must be so proud. English all the way!!! Do you feel better?

[...]

...will everyone just 'shaddap' already on this topic ferphaquesakes?

you're all giving me an aneurysm of a headache!