Prop strike...

[Dominic220]

If I have a prop strike on a 172, is it mandatory to have an engine/prop overhaul/replacement, or is it just "strongly advised". Keep in mind, this is a commercially registered aircraft.

Also, if it is mandatory, any pointers on where in the CARS it is?

Thanks!

[mincraft]

Cars 625 Appendix G

[Hedley]

If it's a Lycoming (likely is), this AD will apply:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... -10-14.htm

[Dominic220]

Hedley: That's from FAA, does it still apply here? (don't see why it wouldn't but is it *mandatory*?)

[Hedley]

#include <stdio.h>

void main(void)
{
int I;

for(I=0;I<1000;I++) {
fprintf(stderr,"Yes\n");
}
}

[erics2b]

#include <stdio.h>

void main(void)
{
int I;

for(I=0;I<1000;I++) {
fprintf(stderr,"Yes\n");
}
}

[200hr Wonder]

Hedly you forgot

return 0;

Should always return SOMETHING

[Hedley]

http://users.aber.ac.uk/auj/voidmain.shtml

inquiring minds want to know ... is

void main(void)

reckless, or merely negligent?

i.e. is a 30 day licence suspension sufficient for
this "negligent" contravention of CAR 602.01,
or is this a full-blown "reckless" contravention,
justifying a 180 day or even 365 day licence
suspension?

[Ballsssssss]

Hedley: That's from FAA, does it still apply here? (don't see why it wouldn't but is it *mandatory*?)

Any AD issued by the governing body of the country that the aircraft was manufactured in is considered mandatory.

[twistedoldwrench]

A engine tear down for a prop stike inspection not as costly as a full out overhaul. Ask yourself what is your life worth, or that of your customers, should your crankshaft fail next flight, or one 4 years from now. Why have any doubt. get it checked out properly!

[Hedley]

A engine tear down for a prop stike inspection not as costly as a full out overhaul

and if you believe that, I've got some swampland in Florida for you

I know many, many people who's engines were torn down for
inspection after prop strike, and all of them spent $$$ because
while the engine is apart, anything that isn't perfect is going to
get changed, too.

If there is any time on the engine at all, expect new exhaust
valves and guides, new rings, honing the cylinders (assuming
there's enough meat in them to do so) probably a new
camshaft and lifters if it's a Lycoming, and maybe your
crankshaft will be out of tolerance and need to be sent
away, ditto for your clamshells.

Don't fool yourself. A prop strike inspection, on anything
but a factory new engine, is going to cost pretty much the
same as a major overhaul.

But you still have to do it.

In the old days, no one did. You just dialed the crankshaft,
put a new prop on it, and off you went.

[mag check]

A engine tear down for a prop stike inspection not as costly as a full out overhaul

and if you believe that, I've got some swampland in Florida for you

I know many, many people who's engines were torn down for
inspection after prop strike, and all of them spent $$$ because
while the engine is apart, anything that isn't perfect is going to
get changed, too.

If there is any time on the engine at all, expect new exhaust
valves and guides, new rings, honing the cylinders (assuming
there's enough meat in them to do so) probably a new
camshaft and lifters if it's a Lycoming, and maybe your
crankshaft will be out of tolerance and need to be sent
away, ditto for your clamshells.

Don't fool yourself. A prop strike inspection, on anything
but a factory new engine, is going to cost pretty much the
same as a major overhaul.

But you still have to do it.

In the old days, no one did. You just dialed the crankshaft,
put a new prop on it, and off you went.

If it was me, I would remove the cylinders prior to sending the engine to the shop(assuming the engine was running well before). Most shops will run the cylinders through the "process" even if they need nothing. It's an easy way to make an extra 500 per jug. The cylinders are not a time lifed component, so this can be done even on an overhaul. To bulk the engine shouldnt cost more than 3-4000. (assuming the crank checks out)

[twistedoldwrench]

My main point that you people seam to have missed is: what do you think an engine failure due to undetected damage due to a prop stike may cost??

Having said that there is still a wide range of possibility as to what do you consider to be a Prop strike??, how much power was the engine under when it occured, how much prop damage, did the engine stop as a result of the impact? Most regulatory "approved data" with regards to this subject will spell out the variables involved. Ultimately the AME checking it out will have to decide, but again I ask the question, what are the potential costs of an engine failure?

[niss]

Back in '88 UBC had a prop strike. All they did was dialed out the crank, it checked ok so slapped a new prop on it.

Doesn't your insurance cover prop strikes?

[iflyforpie]

Car 625 App. G says that if the track of the prop is out by more than 1/8" (this is at the tip), it is grounds for further investigation if there is no other guidance in the M/M.

Any ADs regarding prop strikes must be heeded regardless of their originating country.

Even if you've met the regs and ADs, any manufacturer's instructions should be followed as well. If there is even a chance of there being other damage to the prop or engine it must be inspected. This involves IMHO sending the engine and prop out for inspection.

I had a Cardinal RG this winter who decided to land on my runway without a nose wheel. The prop was wrecked as well as the gear doors and exhaust pipe. I advised the owner to pull the prop and engine (the engine was 200 from TBO) and get each overhauled or replaced. His home shop phoned him and told him to get my shop to put on a new prop and get the plane ready to ferry over the Rockies in the middle of winter.

I refused to do the work on the grounds of safety but they came out and did it anyways. What happened? Nothing. But there would be no way in hell I would risk lives and property like that just to get the plane to a different shop (I had a feeling it was motivated by costs and responsibilities by the shop in question as they had just done the annual on the plane).

Planes are cheap, life isn't. Get an inspection done. It may cost more than a basic teardown for the reasons Hedley stated but it still shouldn't be as much as a full overhaul as they are not inspecting all the engine components.

[crazyaviator]

There is an AD for both the Continental and the Lycoming engines concerning prop strikes and the Lycoming is more onerous. A private or commercial aircraft must have the CARS appendix inspection AND the ADS complied with . A homebuilt plane with either engine need only comply with the CARS appendix as a MINIMUM! As one previous submitter recommended, Pull the cyls OR have the engine shop OR an AME pull the jugs and visually examine,,. If the compressions have been good and no mod/ heavy valve leakage, then reinstall. The AME can reinstall the cyls upon engine receipt. A teardown is primarily to check the crankshaft and associated components ( like case, end gear dowels) for bends or cracks. Remember the magneto drives are suceptable to damage. Now is a good time to Mic journals etc to get a good idea of whether you wish to extend the engine on-condition for 100-500 + hours! Engine shops will only do as you tell them ,, and in the event of ignorance, they will cover their ass and do everything , You have a right to inspect the crank / case etc and get an independant verification if there is legitimate concern about the O/H company . Minor prop strikes and cranks that are not bent ON HOMEBUILTS may continue in service when the CARS appendix has been followed. Im not suggesting this , but it is a personal decision based upon many factors ( engine model and severity of strike etc) Obviously, the best and safest route is teardown and inspeaction by an APPROVED shop, regardless of its homebuilt status.

[hangarline]

Having said that there is still a wide range of possibility as to what do you consider to be a Prop strike??

If you read the AD on this subject, it will tell you what the definition of a prop strike is. Fairly straightforward. Any body trying to talk anybody else out of getting it done, is probably not willing to spend the money. Please don't expect an AME or overhaul shop to not follow the regulation.


http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/applicatio ... -10-14.htm

[niss]

Do most insurance companies cover the O/H due to a prop strike if you have coverage for hull in motion?

[crazyaviator]

NO insurance company will pay for an overhaul , just for the work and parts to rectify the "prop strike" and , of course, the removal and reinstallation of the engine etc

[niss]

And what if the prop strike left the engine U/S?

[crazyaviator]

Any parts of the engine that are affected by the prop strike are included in the policy, If the engine needs a new case, then bearings , cracked ctls ,etc etc ,,well it may well just end up as an overhauled engine if the cost is negligable compared to repairing all the bits ! and the insurance company MAY just pay the extra

[Tinkerman]

As a rule of thumb in my shop, if there is warrent to remove the prop for repair/replacment, the engine goes for teardown/gearbox inspection as well. On top of that, the entire oil system, ie oil cooler, hoses, oil tank, gets flushed out to remove any possible metal that has been made. Its better to spend a small amount for insurance, then pay for a possible in flight failure.
Why on earth would you take even a chance? Its an engine!! Even worse on a single engine airplane ?

[Hedley]

Right. So, after a prop strike, in addition to buying
a new propeller, you will likely end up spending
$20k to $25k overhauling the engine.

Might as well think about a factory engine, for
that much money.

But on many older aircraft, it simply doesn't
make financial sense to install a new prop,
and a new engine. Might as well junk the
aircraft, and then you can be certain that all
regulations are compiled with.

[mag check]

Right. So, after a prop strike, in addition to buying
a new propeller, you will likely end up spending
$20k to $25k overhauling the engine.

Might as well think about a factory engine, for
that much money.

But on many older aircraft, it simply doesn't
make financial sense to install a new prop,
and a new engine. Might as well junk the
aircraft, and then you can be certain that all
regulations are compiled with.

That's a little extreme, The only reason to buy a new prop would be if the old one was scrap. Most can be repaired economicaly. You have to crunch pretty hard to wreck a prop. The engine can be bulked for a couple of grand. No need to overhaul unless it was going to need it in the very near future anyways. Even if the crank doesn't pass the magnaflux, a new one is not that expensive. A couple of grand will get the crank, and bearings. If it is a private aircraft, there is no requirment to overhaul ever, so just keep repairing as needed.
If the engine and prop are damaged so bad that you have to buy new ones, likely the firewall, mount, nose gear(if tri gear) and lower cowl/nose bowl are all ripped off as well.

But if you really want to buy new props, engines, and airplanes, come see me, I'll give you a good deal

[iflyforpie]

Even if the crank doesn't pass the magnaflux, a new one is not that expensive. A couple of grand will get the crank, and bearings.

For real!?