CAW Talking to Westjet?

[highlander]

I looked up the CAW site and typed WestJet into the search icon provided. Personally, I think a union would really hurt the people at WestJet. CAW doesn't care about companies and quite frankly, i don't think they care too much about the people it supposedly represents either. Visit the site and see for yourself caw.ca

Here are some quotes on previous issues.
Here's what a member of CAW had to say on earlier issues:

On jetsgo's demise-

"Even much-copied WestJet has reached the limit of its success; it, too, is now piling up losses in the face of the overexpansion and ruthless fare-cutting which it itself spawned. Jetsgo's demise will fatten WestJet's bottom line for a while - but it is obvious that other fools will soon tread where others tried (and failed) before them, and the entire utterly useless cycle will start again."


This next one came from an article titled "Canada's Top Ten Cheaters"

"Canada's airline industry has been a financial killing field since deregulation in 1987: not a single airline has demonstrated sustained profitability, and dozens have gone bankrupt. Some argued WestJet was the exception; I was always doubtful. This company is now foundering on the same rocks of reckless overexpansion and ruthless competition that destroyed those before it.

And as WestJet starts looking less like a winner, its business plan will start falling apart like an old jetliner. Consider its low-wage employment strategy. One way WestJet kept its people happy while paying them little was through discretionary profit-sharing payouts. But these have been cut by 60 percent - a loss of $600 income per employee over the first six months of this year."
This next one is long, sorry:

by Jim Stanford, Canadian Auto Workers
No. 116. February 17, 2006

How to Tell if You Really Own the Company.

Call it a tale of two airlines. WestJet reported another disappointing quarter last Wednesday, and its shares plunged. Two days later, Air Canada reported a $258 million annual profit - the biggest for any Canadian airline in 8 years. Grappling with espionage lawsuits, executive turnover, and slim profits, WestJet's lustre is fading, while a revitalized Air Canada seems poised to once again rule the skies.

There's another interesting contrast between the two airlines. Air Canada is heading into wage bargaining this spring with its unions, where it will have to share some of those profits - and gradually repair the labour relations damage lingering from its 2003-04 restructuring. Down at the non-union WestJet counter, however, no-one knows what kind of raise they'll get this year. The company does not pay across-the-board increases; every employee's pay depends on what the boss thinks of their personal performance.

WestJet also has a rather unilateral form of profit-sharing: a chunk of pre-tax profits that's paid out (at the discretion of the board of directors) in annual bonuses. This year's payout has not yet been determined. Last year's amounted to $2.9 million - $725 per full-time worker, or 35 cents per hour. Since 2000, as WestJet profits flagged in the face of overexpansion and killer competition, profit-sharing bonuses per head have shrunk by 93 percent.

WestJet workers can also console themselves with the fact that they "own" the company - at least according to the company's current ad campaign. These spots feature WestJet workers doing extraordinary things, because they are purportedly the airline's "owners." Most offensive is the one showing an attractive WestJetter who's just spent two days chasing an equally attractive customer who forgot his cellphone on the plane. She sold his jet-ski in the meantime (for more than the asking price), and seems almost ready to offer sex, as well. For anyone who actually earns their living trying to keep demanding customers happy, this scenario is as insulting as it is idiotic.

WestJet can't say what proportion of its shares are owned by non-executive employees (purchased from their own salaries, matched by a company subsidy). The 4300 workers certainly own under 10 percent, maybe less than 5 percent. That's dwarfed by the 15 percent stake held by the 9 men who sit on WestJet's board.

And, like other shareholders, WestJet workers have taken a bath of late on this "investment": the share price has tumbled almost 50 percent in two years. Thanks, but no thanks. Working for Air Canada is no bed of roses. But the non-owners there make a much better wage, and at least they know what they're getting paid.

I doubt that many WestJetters swallow the paternalistic claim that they actually own the firm. After 10 years in business, and still no pension plan, singing those cheery on-board ditties must definitely be losing its charm. But just in case anyone confuses tokenism with true empowerment, here are ten good ways to determine whether - like the Remington man - you really do own the company you work for:

10. The company limo pulls up en route to the annual shareholders' meeting - and the driver asks you to fill it up with regular.

9. You love the view from the top-floor executive suite, especially at night - which is when you empty the wastebaskets up there.

8. The company presents you a unique, personalized business card. You punch it into the time clock every morning when you get to work.

7. You ask the receptionist to hold all your calls - and she says, "What calls?"

6. Your quarterly dividend cheque reads, "Amounts under $2 will be neither refunded nor collected."

5. The real boss belongs to the Canadian Club and the Dominion Club. You belong to Club Z and Costco.

4. You have a corner office, all right: the security hut, right in the corner of the parking lot.

3. Fifty percent of your dining and entertainment expenses are tax-deductible - as long as you keep the Tim Horton's receipt.

2. You don't have monogrammed cuffs on your shirt. But you do have your whole name ("Billy") embroidered right there on the pocket.

And here's the Number One way to tell that you don't really own the company: After a lifetime of service, your executive retirement package is called the CPP.

A version of this commentary was originally published in the Globe and Mail."




"

[vanscorp]

I believe this would be a bad move. I agree with what KAG says that this will upset more people than make happy the ones who the articles says are calling the CAW. These must be new employees or former Unionized employees who think they will benefit from this. Remember people if you are new in a union and your employee number is high you will get the short end of the stick. I have been with this great airline for 5yrs and although i know there are things that can be improved I think we are still better off without a union. Yes we are getting larger and I think we have lost some of that mom and pop feel but as we get larger we can only make it better for ourselves by working together and agreeing on our benefits and compensation packages together.
People keep mentioning stock prices, well do you think by bringing a union in they are going to go up drastically????
This company is what you make of it and if you want change then you have to speak up instead of sitting on the face thinking it is greener on the other side.
My opinion to those that complain about their job, salary, schedule or benefits has always been the same. If you don't like it then go somewhere else. This company didn't choose you, you chose it. You sign a offer sheet that explains we are a 24/7, 365 day rain or shine company and what is expected of you. Maybe you need to ask to read it again and then decide if you need to look for another job.

[skyhigh]

If it ain't broke......DONT FIX IT. We do not need a union here.

Mattadfred, i too was at Jazz around the same time as KAG, and during my tenure there another issue arose whereby we were hired under the promise of Commuting passes being introduced to the new hires as an incentive, instead of waiting for the required 6 month period. Well on day 2 of groundschool we were told that commuting passes were not available for those not sent to Toronto (our class was sent to montreal) and that if we wanted to commute, we would have to pay full fare....Of course we complained to the union. Did anything come of it? NOPE!!! Now combine that problem along with the 14% wage decrease, all in a matter of 12 months. If a union cannot protect us from issues like these, well then whats the point of having one...

Oh yeah another thing, the supposed "wage overpayment" at Jazz for newhire FOs was brought to the attention of the company BY THE UNION. This is straight from our union reps!!!! so Thanks for NOTHING. Unions are going the way of the dinosour...just ask the Autoworkers in Ontario that were led astray by Buzz Hargrove.

[mattedfred]

skyhigh,

perhaps you weren't aware of the fact that travel passes were not part of your CBA at that time and they still aren't

a good union insists that the employer follow every part of the CBA even if it benefited a percentage of the membership that they looked the other way

it was not ALPA's fault if you were given incorrect information in your interview

Air Canada or Jazz could change my travel passes at any time and i wouldn't expect ALPA to do anything about it as it isn't a contractual issue

i'm glad that you were able to keep the overpayment

[Bones]

This whole thing smells fishy to me.

ALLEGEDLY some WJ people are talking to a union?

Must be a slow news day judging from how many newspapers/networks I've seen this on.

We've all heard the union stuff before, but I honestly doubt that there's any more talking than normal and that this whole story is pretty much made up. Especially after reading those stories posted from CAW's website. I don't know where they got that info but there wasn't one accurate "fact".

I think CAW's behind the whole story, just to get it in the paper and get people talking. Like that southpark episode.

"ALLEGEDLY, there was a huge flood and I don't know for sure but 100,000 people MAY have died!"

"Oh my god! 100,000 people are dead! This is a catastrophe!"

...that kind of thing. You see it all the time, don't believe everything you hear.

I call BS, but that's just me.

[. .]

I realize this will be a moot point because the WJ pilot group isn't even close to unionizing. You get the collective agreement that you negotiate. It's not like ALPA would refuse to accept you if you wanted a non seniority based scheduling system. If you wanted your travel benefits delt with in the same way you would just have to say so.

I for one hope you guys absolutely clean up on your contract negotiations next year. Certainly you've enjoyed comparing your contract to others to achieve raises and working condition improvements. Perhaps now others can compare theirs to yours for the same purpose.

[Human Factor]

Stay away from Buzz Hargrove and the CAW, they only care about their own bottom line and nothing about the well being of the people they are supposed to represent. Not all unions are evil but CAW definitely is.

[jetmech]

Stay away from Buzz Hargrove and the CAW, they only care about their own bottom line and nothing about the well being of the people they are supposed to represent. Not all unions are evil but CAW definitely is.

+1 on that point. I've seen there crap first hand. They are trully useless and amount to nothing more than additional wages lost come pay day. They care nothing for you if your not part of Ford, GM, or Chrysler, and even then it's a crap shoot. The only thing that stands out on there opening web page is how many of there beloved are losing there jobs.

Stay the hell out of here!!

[KAG]

If WJ was to go union (big if) the pilots would most likely go ALPA.

[lilfssister]

Stay away from Buzz Hargrove and the CAW, they only care about their own bottom line and nothing about the well being of the people they are supposed to represent. Not all unions are evil but CAW definitely is.

I thought Buzz retired?

[CanadaEH]

With all due respect to those interested in seeking other forms of representation, a union would not be beneficial to Westjet. I'll be the first to admit that PACT isn't perfect but I am a firm believer that the relationship PACT has with everyone from The Board of Directors (which PACT has a seat on, by the way) right down through the VP's, Directors, and Managers to its own employees works and will continue to work.

[Four1oh]

ask the AC CSA's how well represented they are by the CAW. Those assholes only care about their biggest customers... the autoworkers, and they even pooched that in the end, didn't they?

[WJ700]

I promise not to sign a card as long as they fix the fucking benefits before year end (sorry... that was the outside voice). I'm better now Ryan Coke.

The CAW has a new man in house looking to prove himself. I can't see ANY group going that route right now but let PACT and Management hop around a bit over it. It just keeps people on track and forces our present system work harder. Like Canada EH said... PACT isn't perfect (far from it in the pilot world.. but thats another thread), however, the best course of action is to MAKE PACT work for each group as needed, its up to each person to push and communicate with there elected person (like going off like a broken record about shitty benefits in emails, phone calls, and every pub that I bump in to my rep in).
The subgroups need to grab the bull by the horns and shape their little world to work best for them.... its a better option and a better fit that the 'off the rack' union setup. PACT has a good underlying idea to it... The actual concept of sitting down with a collective voice of all sub-groups backing each other is a fantastic amount of collective power. The system just hasn't grown as fast as the airline and needs a make over.
From an ex-ALPA LEC... it's way easier to get things done when your friends. The working relationship is equally important to the communication required among management and the membership.

[jetmech]

There's always a certain level of bullshit know matter where you go. It happens, and it's at every company and every career. The more people the more issues develop. With 5000+ theres bound to be a few. It all boils down to how much you as an individual are willing to put up with. Are there more good points vs bad points? The bottom line is, if it's that bad at a company that your bringing the issues home with you, then you need to leave. A union is not the answer. A union will make those issues worse and introduce a hell of a lot of new ones.

[Rem]

If there's any doubt that unions in general and CERTAINLY the CAW in particular are only interested in the union itself, here's a quote from Buzz Hargrove when AC was bankrupt the last time, and they were negotiating a change to the pension:

"If we give in to Air Canada on this issue, then the next time we're negotiating with Ford and GM then they'll think we're weak and want the same thing, and I can't let that happen"

If you recall, his union was the last holdout and the company was HOURS from liquidation because he cares more about the union itself than the tens of thousands who would have been out of work if AC went under.

[skyhigh]

Mattadfred, its easy for you to be all high and mighty when those issues at Jazz did not effect you. I know you would be singing a different tune when its YOUR paycheque that gets effected under the account of the misrepresentations of Jazz and mishandlings of the Union that decided to bring it to the attention of the company and said "too bad guys and gals...this is decision is beyond us"..which by the way was the usual canned response we got everytime an issue arose.....Explain to me what the hell are those union dues are for...to enforce the CBA?? well its a legal binding document and anyone can enforce in court should it ever come to that.

[mattedfred]

skyhigh,

perhaps you also quit jazz before the march 2007 mec bulletin was published but it asked for any evidence from those affected so that ALPA could pursue a grievance on your behalf

since a grievance was not filed i can only assume that ALPA either did not receive sufficient evidence to pursue a grievance

i'm sure we all wished that there had been enough evidence as this affected one of our members it affected all of us

perhaps their choice was to file a grievance without any direct evidence and risk losing which would have likely meant that you would have been required to pay back the overpayment

perhaps ALPA decided that your being able to keep the overpayment and continue to be paid as per the CBA was making the best of a bad situation given the lack of direct evidence

a CBA is a contract between an employer and an association and therefore cannot be enforced without the association

union dues are used for this purpose

a contract between a pilot and an employer must be enforced by the pilot and the pilot must pay for legal counsel out of their own pocket

i'm sorry that your pay was totally screwed up and that you chose to quit jazz as i'm sure that your opinion of ALPA would have changed had you chosen to stay

just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't make me high and mighty or right

i just don't agree with some of your opinions

[invertedattitude]

I realize it's not a pilot group, but without the union we have I'm quite sure its a universal statement amongst most in our group that we'd be screwed.


It would be very interesting if WestJet starts losing money hand over fist and needs to start cutting everything they can, and at that point how its employee base would react. WJA does a fantastic job of selling cutbacks as growth to its non-skilled workbase anyway regardless of how small, I've seen it so many times in the last year alone I've lost count.

The problem is that even though so many people realize they're being screwed they are still too scared to lose their jobs to do anything about it, I'm speaking of the "Non-skilled" as you call it workforce which is much easier/cheaper to replace than the pilot group and has nothing to bargain on, and many of them feel once they've gone to PACT if nothing happens now they can do nothing and have to accept it.

I wish none of this on WestJet as it affects my family if it does, but I still see little things changing over the last year or so which have had result on day to day life for us, things that a union would never let happen.

Just my .02 from the outside looking in through a window... flame away.

[The Fish]

Invertted, care to back any of your nonsense about cut backs with facts or is your girlfriend the only one with the really inside scoop??

Fish

[mattedfred]

i know this is an anonymous webboard but perhaps if more of us at least pretended that our names were attached to our posts then maybe there would be a little more decorum

[CanadaEH]

I realize it's not a pilot group, but without the union we have I'm quite sure its a universal statement amongst most in our group that we'd be screwed.

Can you elaborate? Saying you'd be screwed is pretty vague.

It would be very interesting if WestJet starts losing money hand over fist and needs to start cutting everything they can, and at that point how its employee base would react. WJA does a fantastic job of selling cutbacks as growth to its non-skilled workbase anyway regardless of how small, I've seen it so many times in the last year alone I've lost count.

We went into a period of uncertainty when Jetsgo was operating and the lawsuit over espionage didn't help matters, either. This is my opinion and my opinion only, but given the state of the industry if Westjet were to start losing money you can pretty much say this industry is fucked because if we're losing money think about how much Air Canada would be losing too. My hope would be that our compensation package allows for a buffer to layoffs (no profit = no profit share, and no profit = dropping share price), but in this business you can never say never. What is a union going to do that PACT won't in the event Westjet starts losing money hand over fist, as you suggest? Demand more money? Protect employees from layoffs? Go on strike!? Cause I've been watching what's been happening at AC and the unions aren't doing much for the employees over there. Westjet and PACT have a very positive working relationship and neither side wants to see WJ lose money.

The problem is that even though so many people realize they're being screwed they are still too scared to lose their jobs to do anything about it, I'm speaking of the "Non-skilled" as you call it workforce which is much easier/cheaper to replace than the pilot group and has nothing to bargain on, and many of them feel once they've gone to PACT if nothing happens now they can do nothing and have to accept it.

You're in YQM, right? I can appreciate your opinion coming from someone who is dating (or engaged or married) to a WJ employee but you're perspective is one of interpretation. Nobody is "being screwed". There have been some changes that were very, very poorly implemented and Westjet has acknowledged that, thanks to the feedback from employees (via PACT) and Management. If your "other" has been affected somehow by structural changes (which is what I'm assuming is the issue?) I'm well aware of what's going on within PACT to deal with the issue.

[mattedfred]

What is a union going to do that PACT won't in the event Westjet starts losing money hand over fist, as you suggest? Demand more money? Protect employees from layoffs? Go on strike!? Cause I've been watching what's been happening at AC and the unions aren't doing much for the employees over there. Westjet and PACT have a very positive working relationship and neither side wants to see WJ lose money.

ALPA allowed our first equipment bid this summer to be delayed then published then rescinded then republished so that a clearer picture could be presented to the membership.

ALPA is trying to protect each member from layoff due to mitigation language that was negotiated into our CBA.

You accuse IA of forming an opinion based on hearsay yet to use your observations of AC to back up yours?

Not all unions have a negative working relationship with management.

[CanadaEH]

ALPA allowed our first equipment bid this summer to be delayed then published then rescinded then republished so that a clearer picture could be presented to the membership.

ALPA is trying to protect each member from layoff due to mitigation language that was negotiated into our CBA.

You accuse IA of forming an opinion based on hearsay yet to use your observations of AC to back up yours?

Not all unions have a negative working relationship with management.

I never meant to suggest that all unions are bad. I'm sure there are many cases where they work well (such as Keller's Interim Award that came out today that should mitigate some layoffs). I just don't think a union is what Westjet or the employees need or want. PACT isn't perfect - as I've said before - but I think it represents the employees well and recognizes areas where it needs to improve.

[mattedfred]

CanadaEH,

you didn't mean to but you do elude to it. i don't think WJ should unionize just because either. WJ and Toyota Canada aren't unionized for a reason. if you are able to negotiate acceptable T&Cs without a trade union then good for you. just stop slamming unions as bad as the reason you don't have or need one. and don't forget that the one of the reasons why WJ and Toyota Canada aren't unionized is because the threat of organizing is a huge incentive for management to continue to work with you. how about you guys start to say the following: we are fortunate enough not to need a trade union at this time and we are thankful to those that have negotiated such great CBAs as it helped us set the bar for our demands.

[WJ700]

Speaking from the pilot's side, most have come from a Union at some point in our career. I did 8 years with ALPA under 3 different banners. WestJet's pilots are not ignorant to what is lacking without a full union but most don't want the previous problems coming back that a union brought to them before. Working within PACT, and working to model PACT, is the much more tedious but desirable way to get services we need, while preserving the very important working relationship. One doesn't have to be a pilot to have different voice within PACT. The sub groups all back each other and if we lose the support of one... then the remaining groups have to pitch in and fix whats wrong. The CSA/Airports group is a very large voice and hard to ignore... skilled or unskilled.