The Socialist States

[Glen Quagmire]

Who knew the neo-cons or more correctly put the neo-liberals in Washington would be part of the largest nationalization in history. The privatization of profits has turned into the socialization of losses. The bailout will cost the taxpayer 1.5 to 2 TRILLION, and will merely postpone the collapse. This just might be the end of deregulated free market Milton Friedman style economics. Marx and Lenin would get a kick out of this, possibly the end of capitalism as we know it.

How does this government intervention and use of taxpayer money make conservatives feel? Using money from Communist China and the theocracy that is Saudi Arabia to nationalize financial institutions, that should be equal to the end times for an honest conservative.

[North Shore]

Capitalism will always work as long as socialism is there to bail it out....

[Spokes]

What exactly is a neocon?

[Dex]

What exactly is a neocon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

[BibleMonkey]

It wasn't necessarily "Neocons" that caused the current economic meltdown-the groundwork was laid on Oct 22, 1999, when Republicans and Democrats , in the face of the most lobbied ( most money to politicians ) bill in modern history, voted to pass the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999-removing the important protections inherent in the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933( imposed by Roosevelt after bank failures stripped the wealth of Americans ) .

Glass-Steagall protected against what we saw last week.

Before Oct '99 , Banks, stock traders, brokerages and insurance companies were barred from entering each others' industries, and investment banking and commercial banking were separated . It became a predictable free-for all after Oct 1999.

Best case scenario now is a continued economic decline until the last quarter of '09. If we believe that national debt is just an abstraction, then United States government bailout pushing the U.S national debt to over ten TRILLION dollars before christmas is no big deal-as long as the dollar is backed by oil it won't crater too bad.

[Spokes]

What exactly is a neocon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

So they are liberals that have moved ideologically to the right? I still havn't figured out how this includes Bush & co.

Maybe this term is used incorrectly with users trying to convey what they believe is a certain 'scaryness' to those whos beliefs are more conservative.

Maybe I still have it wrong, I guess my question should have been what is the differance between a conservative, and a neo-conservative?

[North Shore]

what is the differance between a conservative, and a neo-conservative?

Simple.

Conservative - exemplified by Brian Mulroney = no heart
Neo-Conservative - George W. Bush = no heart and no brain.

[Glen Quagmire]

The origins of neoconservatism are traced back to liberals who shifted to the right and were called new conservatives but that doesn't apply to today's neocons.

Neocons differ greatly from classic conservatives in that they believe in unlimited spending on defense, large powerful government, aggressive foreign policy and imperialism. They are also extremely liberal when it comes to fiscal matters and the economy. The ends almost always justify the means to Neocons which is why they have no issues with rendition, torture or shredding the constitution to spy on its own. A traditional conservative would be hard pressed to agree with any of the above as conservatism in general promotes smaller, less intrusive government.

George Bush surrounded himself with neocons when he took office, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. All had a major impact on the policy that started to flow from the white house. The above men, apart from Bush belong to or were part of "Project for the New American Century" or PNAC. PNAC is a neocon think tank headed by Bill Kristol, son of Irving Kristol perhaps the father of the Neoconservative movement. Bill Kristol is constantly on Fox News whipping up new reasons to invade Iran or Syria and defending the motives behind Iraq. I suggest that everyone has a look at PNAC and what they list as their "values" or ideology. Then have a look at the current and former member list. Once that painfully boring exercise is complete you should have a good grasp as to the origins of the "Bush Doctrine" and it should uncover the real reasons for Iraq and Bush's foreign policy.

The neocons might have to disappear for a few years and think things through as the above ideology has proven to be disastrous at home and abroad.

[Spokes]

Thanks, finaly a clear concise answer. It was somthing I had always wondered about. Although in some respects it sounds like a bit of a mis-nomer. Big intrusive government as far as I know has always been the pervue of liberal thinkers. Maybe they should be called neo-liberals or neolibs.

[Guido]

Thanks, finaly a clear concise answer. It was somthing I had always wondered about. Although in some respects it sounds like a bit of a mis-nomer. Big intrusive government as far as I know has always been the pervue of liberal thinkers. Maybe they should be called neo-liberals or neolibs.

There are people called neo-liberals... they're the ones behind things like NAFTA and other free trade zones. They want to control the world just like neo-cons, but they do it through financial means as opposed to military...