CYBW a dangerous place to fly???

[scrambled_legs]

I kind of doubt that CYBW reports more than other the other fields. During the same time period, the number of CADORS that were filed, minus the ones already mentioned, were:

145 Boundary Bay (190k movements)
85 CYBW (180k movements)
136 Buttonville (170k movements)
107 Pitt Meadows (100k movements)
87 Kitchener/Waterloo (100k movements)

[SierraPoppa]

I kind of doubt that CYBW reports more than other the other fields. During the same time period, the number of CADORS that were filed, minus the ones already mentioned, were:

145 Boundary Bay (190k movements)
85 CYBW (180k movements)
136 Buttonville (170k movements)
107 Pitt Meadows (100k movements)
87 Kitchener/Waterloo (100k movements)

I'm curious, all these CADORS reports are quite new to me, is this NavCanada policy or something?

I've read a few and they seem quite petty, for example, a guy enters the zone without clearance you file a CADORS? In my day you'd have a little chat with him over a coffee when he got down, and everyone was happy.

Now you file a complaint against the guy and enforcement have a word with him, that makes a lot of sense...NOT.

If this is the new way of doing things I'm glad I'm no longer involved.

[scrambled_legs]

Sierra Poppa, officially we are required by NC to file all incidents accidents or violations of CARs. Unofficially, the petty CADOR's that are filed are probably done so after numerous similar incidents. In your example, pilots keep blowing airspace and are continuously told to stop doing it over coffee, but don't get the message. Then there's a report filed in hopes that TC involvement will help stop them from doing it before something serious happens. I went through flight training as well and understand how easy it is to enter airspace or miss an altitude or an instruction at that stage. The unfortunate thing is with the flush of instructors, it's often the instructors that are making the mistakes. When you have instructors that don't know airspace, NORDO procedures, or how to follow basic instructions, it's not a petty thing. Although the paperwork may seem petty, it's usually not a simple mistake but something more involved than that. I'm just guessing because officially I file everything, but if every single violation was filed, you'd probably have about 20 a day, not 85 a year and a full time TC inspector at every controlled field in Canada handing out fines and suspensions daily. The one good thing about downturns in the industry, is that it brings experience and with it competence back to the instructing staff.

[Cat Driver]

Then there's a report filed in hopes that TC involvement will help stop them from doing it before something serious happens. I went through flight training as well and understand how easy it is to enter airspace or miss an altitude or an instruction at that stage. The unfortunate thing is with the flush of instructors, it's often the instructors that are making the mistakes. When you have instructors that don't know airspace, NORDO procedures, or how to follow basic instructions, it's not a petty thing.

You will have to cut me some slack here because I'm having some real difficulty understanding what in fu.k TC's agenda really is.

They are the ones responsible for the quality of flight instructors, yet there are so many incompetent instructors out there that the whole pilot pool is now being over run with incompetents?

So instead of curing the root problem you set up an orwillian system where you force Nav Can employees to be like police with radar guns sitting in fishing holes nailing people and collecting fines?

Great system.

[Shiny Side Up]

It should be remembered that CADORS reports don't equal instant violation. In many cases it is up to the discretion of TC enforcement on how to chase it down. I've found that in some cases it simply leads to that "friendly discussion over coffee" so to speak and nothign more comes from the issue. It may of course go beyond that depending on the seriousness of the offense.

I should say that many other industries outside of aviation have a similar process for accidents and especially near misses. Aviation has in this case maybe just caught up with the rest of the world.

And no, its not just the fault of the instructors out there.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

In many cases it is up to the discretion of TC enforcement on how to chase it down. I've found that in some cases it simply leads to that "friendly discussion over coffee" so to speak and nothign more comes from the issue.

You mean it is sort of like playing Russian Roulette it all depends on who you get as the enforcement inspector and who you are?

[Shiny Side Up]

Possibly, yes. More specifically if they haven't seen your name and aircraft registration on a report before, in other words a first time offender, you're likely to get a friendly call about it - once again depending on the severity. For example I know of a few repeat offenders of not closing thier flight plans, which in itself is not such a heinous violation of air law, and was let go on the first few CADORS that were filed on them (i.e. no action by the associated TC enforcement), then there was a friendly call, and I know a few of which it has escalated from that point.

In my experience as well it does depend on who you are in terms of what sort of operations you're involved in. Private aircraft owners rarely get a follow up - unless they are repeat offenders - but commercial operators almost always get a follow up call, especially aircraft involved in flight training.

[lyncher]

Busy airport with plenty of student pilots doesnt make the airport dangerous, that all depends on the pilots. You want dangerous? try Cusco Peru, Field elevation of 11000ft, airport is situated in a valley, no IFR appraoches that are approved yet (there are 2 STARs though), you can only takeoff one end of the runway and if you leave any time after noon you can expect anywhere from 25 to 45kt tailwind.