Question for the ATC boys and girls and the seasoned IFR drivers out there.
Scenerio is you depart somewhere on a 3 hour leg. Weather at destination is forcasted VFR for the duration of the flight and the ETA. Enroute the weather at destination deteriorates below VFR mins. You are carrying VFR legal minimum fuel. Is it legal to get the IFR clearance to enter the control zone at destination with not enough fuel to reach an alternate?
Pop Up IFR
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2milefinal
- Rank 6
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Re: Pop Up IFR
Not really an atc question, more of a CARS question.
Short and sweet...NO
I wont tell anyone if you don't.
Short and sweet...NO
I wont tell anyone if you don't.
Re: Pop Up IFR
It is an ATC question if the controllers in YUL are issueing the clearance to an AC with no alternate on a VFR flight plan
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2milefinal
- Rank 6
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Re: Pop Up IFR
See my SPOT IFR response in ATC formum.
Cheers,
ETTW
Cheers,
ETTW
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2. If the company doesn't make money neither do I
3. I still hate simulators
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flying4dollars
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Re: Pop Up IFR
Shep wrote:Question for the ATC boys and girls and the seasoned IFR drivers out there.
Scenerio is you depart somewhere on a 3 hour leg. Weather at destination is forcasted VFR for the duration of the flight and the ETA. Enroute the weather at destination deteriorates below VFR mins. You are carrying VFR legal minimum fuel. Is it legal to get the IFR clearance to enter the control zone at destination with not enough fuel to reach an alternate?
if you had nowhere else to go and your reserves aren't sufficient to help you out much, assuming you planned properly and the weather just happened to deteriorate to below VFR mins then
1) Ask for special VFR to get you in
or
2) Ask for the IFR clearance stating your fuel situation and necessity to make it to the airport. Keep in mind your a/c would need to be equipped properly.
My $0.02
Re: Pop Up IFR
This is another HUGE difference between ATC in Canada
and the USA. In the USA, you're driving along, and a bit
of a marine layer develops, you just ask for a pop-up
and ATC gives you a vector to the localizer. That's it.
In Canada, is that happens, ATC asks you in a serious
tone if you're declaring an emergency.
What? All I'd like is a vector to the localizer. Oh yeah,
I forget, this is Canada, that doesn't happen
Even VFR in Canada is completely screwed up, when
it comes to dealing with ATC. You can't fly through
any major airport (Ottawa, Montreal, etc) in Canada
even VFR unless you phone ahead of time and get
a squawk code 30 minutes before takeoff. WTF?
I grilled a NavCan guy about this once, comparing it
to the effortless service I get VFR in the USA, he
blamed it on a software bug. Apparently, when
the ATC software in Canada was designed, no
one told them about this "VFR" thing - it's only
designed to handle filed IFR traffic, if you can
believe something that stupid.
So, every VFR aircraft needs to be entered
into the crippled Canadian ATC software just
like IFR, according to NavCan.
Sigh.
and the USA. In the USA, you're driving along, and a bit
of a marine layer develops, you just ask for a pop-up
and ATC gives you a vector to the localizer. That's it.
In Canada, is that happens, ATC asks you in a serious
tone if you're declaring an emergency.
What? All I'd like is a vector to the localizer. Oh yeah,
I forget, this is Canada, that doesn't happen
Even VFR in Canada is completely screwed up, when
it comes to dealing with ATC. You can't fly through
any major airport (Ottawa, Montreal, etc) in Canada
even VFR unless you phone ahead of time and get
a squawk code 30 minutes before takeoff. WTF?
I grilled a NavCan guy about this once, comparing it
to the effortless service I get VFR in the USA, he
blamed it on a software bug. Apparently, when
the ATC software in Canada was designed, no
one told them about this "VFR" thing - it's only
designed to handle filed IFR traffic, if you can
believe something that stupid.
So, every VFR aircraft needs to be entered
into the crippled Canadian ATC software just
like IFR, according to NavCan.
Sigh.
Re: Pop Up IFR
That doesn't sound right. I can call up an FSS enroute 2 min before calling the tower and get a squak code. I think it's about managing the controllers time at the bigger CZ.
Re: Pop Up IFR
From the CFS for CYOW PRO:
for Montreal airspace - obtain transponder code at least 30 minutes
prior.
Frankly, it's an embarrassment. Reading between the lines,
you pretty clearly get the message if you're VFR - just turn the
VHF comm off, and stay out of our airspace.
Well, ok.
At least half the time, when you call up, you're told to
remain clear. So why even bother trying?
Looking at the CFS for Montreal, it says basically the same thingIf you do not file a VFR flight plan or itinerary with NAV Canada, contact Montreal ACC at 866-VFR-CODE at least 30 minutes prior to your flight to obtain your transponder code
for Montreal airspace - obtain transponder code at least 30 minutes
prior.
Frankly, it's an embarrassment. Reading between the lines,
you pretty clearly get the message if you're VFR - just turn the
VHF comm off, and stay out of our airspace.
Well, ok.
At least half the time, when you call up, you're told to
remain clear. So why even bother trying?
