ANR... good or bad???

[Just another canuck]

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[Tim]

I do notice some slight discomfort with mine at times. Usually tends to come if you twist your head and the seal opens up a bit. Then you can actually hear the ANR speaker vibrating and it makes quite a pressure on your ear drum. It's not so much noise and just pressure. I also find it's very important to place the cups in just the right spot. A few millimeters forward or backward adds noise/pressure, but that's something you figure out where to put very quickly for maximum comfort. In theory though the net noise/pressure on your ear should be much lower than an non-ANR headset as the two sounds block each other, not amplify them. At worst it should be the same as a non-ANR. I got this all from the lightspeed website when I looked into buying mine. They have quite a detailed section all about the how and why.

[xsbank]

If the headset has a good passive noise attenuation, the pressure of the speakers in the ear cups can be less than if the passive is poor. Lightspeed never publishes its passive attenuation, which implies that the majority of its attenuation is electronic. The louder the noise, the harder the speaker has to push to produce the opposite sine wave. If the ear seal is broken and there is a delay in the electronic's ability to generate the sound, you first get the loud noise from the aircraft and a louder noise from the speakers until it catches up. I believe the sampling microphone is inside the hearing cup, so a headset like the 50G, which has the best published passive, doesn't have to work so hard and is not bouncing your eardrum as hard if it screws up.

[Strega]

DC-H1013X

The best there is...

[Benwa]

Here's a comparison between the Pilot Avionics PA-1779T and the DC. Keep in mind the Pilot Avionics cost 475$. Their passive protection is just awesome. I'd say 25% of the time I forget to turn the ANR ON (I got an older version... before the auto-ON/OFF) and only realize after landing when I try to turn it off.

Pilot PA-1779T vs. David Clark® H10-13X

Pilot - blue David Clark® - red

Simple interpretation of graph: The lower the line, the greater the noise reduction. Lower is better.




http://www.pilot-usa.com/anrcomptests.htm

http://www.pilot-usa.com/

[cyxe]

Heard that ANR could possibly actually be bad for your ears... I was told US military not using it any more for these reasons... any truth or just a stupid rumour.

I was gonna pick up the Zulu next week. Maybe I should just stick cotton balls in my ears like the old timers used to.

Do you have any info on this you could point me to - I am curious. I haven't heard about this. I have almost decied to purchase a set of Zulus...

[Tim]

The Zulu indeed does have very good passive (for an ANR). The ANR mic however is on the outside of the cup, directly on top. It's not visible when worn due to the headpad bridge.

[cgzro]

ANR is essential in some of the very noisy planes I've flown. In particular the different Pitts models are incredibly loud and without ANR its almost impossible to communicate.
I did fly 50 hrs or so with just normal headset and it was very upleasant. Telex 50D cured that and its now just a dull roar

[Just another canuck]

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[Conquest Driver]

I love ANR. I've been using it for years with no problems. I started with a Telex, then moved to 2 different BOSE models. All 3 of them were great. Plus I could feed a Sterio signal into the BOSE.

I had a little gadget called "The Listener®" which would kill the music the second a radio or intercom transmission came in. I've only flown one aircraft where that didn't work and that was because of excessive background noise built into the intercom system.

The only headset I had any concerns with was the David Clark®. I think this was their first model. I did tend to notice what I perceived as "feedback". Plus I wear prescription glasses and I found the clamping pressure on the David Clark® to be more than I was comfortable with. On the other hand, lots of people have nothing but good to say about the David Clark® brand, including the ANR models.

I've got a whack of hours and age. I can still hear the Hummingbirds. This is a good thing and I think ANR had something to do with it.

[cgzro]

I know it makes everything all quiet and nice, but the question is, can it be worse in the long run? It sounds like if used improperly it can be quite bad and if the ANR is malfunctioning or just shit quality it can also be bad. Fact is you're getting twice as many waves on your ear drum, so do those signals cancel each other out and have no effect or do they cancel each other out, make it quiet but rattle the shit out of your ear at the same time?

Hmmm, here is a silly analagy that may help. When you run down an escalator that is going up at the same speed you are running down you don't move relative to the building. You are expending energy going down and the escalator is expending energy going up. No way can you hurt your head on a fixed part of the building doing that, unless the escalator stops or you stop running. You can fix that little problem by continuosly adjusting your speed to keep your head in exactly the same spot.

[Nark]

Great, I was about to come on here and brag about my new DC X-11. Took it up for a spin today. Thought it was broken because one ear was louder than the other, until I learned it has dual volume knobs.

I used to fly with a DC 13.4 with custom ear plugs, which did the trick, but got annoying after 3-4 hours. Plus I pretty much bought the X-11 because of the cel phone jack. It will come in very handy in my business.

Good to know that it wasn't a complete waste of $$$.

[Tim]

http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/conte ... -Reduction

Lots of info on ANR in gerenal - not just the Zulu.

It's a bit lengthy, but quite detailed.

[BeechTwin]

I have a DC 13 ANR, and found that the batteries did not last more than 5 hours. I now fly with the Bose, and find that the sound is great as well as the ANR. Although I find it gets uncomfortable after 5 hours, but the batteries in the Bose last for ever.

Cheers!

[Hedley]

I've been using ANR since before most people here started flying.

Currently using Telex 50D, which is the king since Bose stopped
making the Series II. The Bose X is crap in a noisy cockpit, because
of it's lack of passive attenuation.

Remember that ANR mostly works at low frequencies - you still
need good passive attenuation for the higher frequences in a
noisy cockpit.

My beef with all the ANR headsets is that they are so delicate
compared to the passive dave clamps. Few ANR headsets
survive even one thousand hours of use, which means that
you're going to buy an awful lot of them in your career.

But they are worth every penny.

N.B. If you fly in quiet airplanes, you can pass on the ANR,
just get a DC 10-13, which is light and strong (passive).

[airturd]

Perhaps I'll eat my hat one day, but....

The idea that ANR could do more harm than good seems like an old wives (pilots) tale that has gotten out of hand. The reason you start to lose hearing is because your eardrum or the hair-like cilia in the inner ear stop working, either from excessively loud, or long-term exposure to, noise. These vibrate at the same frequency as the air waves hitting them from the outside, transmit those vibrations to nerve endings which send the signals to your brain, and you register this as sound. If they don't vibrate, then you hear nothing, and they don't get damaged. The idea that you can lose your hearing from "silent sounds" seems a little crazy. Two frequencies out of phase can't make your eardrum vibrate twice as much AND not vibrate at all, at the same time. You either hear something or you don't.

By the way, save some money and buy an ANR mod that you slide into your existing passive headset. I bought one for $200 about 6 years ago and it works just as well or better as any other high-priced headset. It is a little heavier, though.

[Hedley]

save some money and buy an ANR mod that you slide into your existing passive headset

Or, save your money and don't buy the kit. I tried a modified
DC with the kit, and it was tremendously inferior to a 50D or
an original Bose Series I or II because of the attenuating foam
that had to be removed, to insert the electronics.

This really hurt it's passive attenuation in a noisy cockpit - all
of the mid and high frequencies got through.

I would only use the kit if I was in some weird cockpit that
had enormous power in the low frequency audible spectrum,
and not much in the mid and high frequences.

[airturd]

Hmmm...not sure which kit you had, but I've used mine in all kinds of radials and twin-turbines, and they worked excellently. I even compared it with the co-pilot's Bose and couldn't tell any difference.

You're right though, when the battery dies, the passive noise protection is pretty bad. Better to have a spare battery.

[Hedley]

when the battery dies, the passive noise protection is pretty bad

with the kit, the passive noise protection is pretty bad with or without power,
because the power is used for the ACTIVE noise reduction. ANR is for lower
freqs, passive is for mid and high freqs.

There is only one kit AFAIK. The variable is which headset you put it into,
and how much insulation you have to take out.

P.S. By noisy cockpit I am referrring to Pitts, P-51, etc. The open
cockpit 450hp Stearman, and 700hp Harvard are quiet in comparison.

[ahramin]

ANR works by making a sound 180 degrees out of phase with existing noise and the two cancel each other out. How could a reduction in the amount of sound getting to your ears be bad?

Sound is waves in the air. Think of waves on water. If you make a wave, then make another identical wave exactly 180 degrees out of phase with the first wave, the waves will cancel each other out as soon as they meet. If you have a boat on the water it does not feel any waves. It's not like the boat will bounce around despite there not being any waves because the waves were canceled.

A note on ANR headsets. I have over 2000 hours of very hard use on a pair of Stratus 50Ds. While the headset continues to be very comfortable and extremely quiet, it was thrashed. The fabric covering the foam ear seals and head liner was shredded. The rubber grommets protecting the wires where they enter the headset and battery box were split. Basically everything that was not metal or hard plastic was totally worn out.

Telex had an issue with the original 50D that if you put in the batteries backwards it could fry the unit. This has never been a problem for me but they issued a recall so I decided to have mine fixed. Just got it back today. Telex paid for shipping both ways and had the unit turned around in less than a week (shipping took a week each way with UPS, go figure). When I got my headset back it had brand new updated ear seals and head liner pad (the new ones are much tougher, soft leather instead of fabric), an updated battery box, and a new little box added to the cord where I can plug in an mp3 player and a cell phone. Totally free.

Not only is it an excellent passive headset, very comfortable (10 hour flights), best ANR out there, and very durable build, but their customer service is unheard of.

[Four1oh]

For what it is and what it does, I'm very happy with my telex 850 ANR. Did I mention no batteries?

[cgzro]

Or, save your money and don't buy the kit. I tried a modified
DC with the kit, and it was tremendously inferior to a 50D or
an original Bose Series I or II because of the attenuating foam
that had to be removed, to insert the electronics.

This really hurt it's passive attenuation in a noisy cockpit - all
of the mid and high frequencies got through.

I would only use the kit if I was in some weird cockpit that
had enormous power in the low frequency audible spectrum,
and not much in the mid and high frequences.

Yeah, I modified a headset (an old Peltor) with the Headsets Inc kit and used it for about a year in the Pitts. It certainly was much better than the passive and when I compared it to a DC ANR set the kit was much better in flight, however I then got to try the Telex 50D on the advice of a whole wack of folks flying noisy planes and it was really night and day. I ordered a set the next day because it was sooo much better and just a huge safety improvement w.r.t reliable comms.

[xsbank]

Once noise reaches higher decibal rates, the hearing damage occurs as a result of vibrations in your skull. Hence the superior ear protection from a helmet in very noisy aircraft. Even the best ANR will not damp out the vibrations through your skull - that may be the source of the military thing, perhaps they are requiring helmet use again when they might have been allowing headset use in certain aircraft? Wearing a helmet all day gets old fast, especially in the summer when your brain overheats and, if pulling g's, your neck feels like a dryer vent.

Perhaps the very-large 50G damps more vibration too?

[Tim]

I'm curious on battery life accross the spectrum of ANR headsets.

My Zulu with on and off bluetooth use goes for about 15-20 hrs. Longer with no bluetooth use. I'm particularily interested in Zulu users who get longer life and what type of batteries you use with it. Anyone?

[ahramin]

I have seen Bose X consistently go 50 hours on 2 AAs in a very noisy airplane (turbine beaver conversion).

My Telex 50D will start to flash red in less than 10 hours on 4 AAs. I have 2 sets of 4 NiMH AAs and never go flying without a fresh set available.