English Language Proficiency, the need for a proper test!

[MichaelP]

This business requires a thread of its own:

Mike: I'm not taking potshots at you over this...and that female was so bad on the radio that she was stumbling and sputtering like a Shaky Jake on one mag. Seven years ago we set up a properly organized ESL program in an attempt to provide language training for off-shore students but the schools at ZBB were not interested in it because they wanted to make far too much money off of our efforts.

The other person in the program was an educator with degrees in languages. We advertized the program but had only 3 students sign up. No encouragement at all from the flying schools! Frustrated...You bet your ass! The English proficiency test is a joke administered by dummies in TCCA.

We don't have any students who have problems with the English language flying solo at this time.
We do have one ESL challenged person who owns an aircraft and therefore we have little control especially since the English Proficiency Test was passed. Even so I do take the responsibility of working with this new pilot to improve proficiency in our language.

If the English Proficiency test was properly thought out and required a high degree of understanding then ESL programs would be necessary and it would be better for all of us.

At SLA we have given ESL classes to those who need it and will continue to do so.

[Shiny Side Up]

I'm still not sure why this was brought in. Another case of TC not enforcing their own rules, and making more rules to cover the rules that they don't enforce. Look on the flight test score sheet. At the very bottom is the section Radio Communication If students can't perform the basic radio communication because a) they can't speak english, or b) they can't put their brain in gear before engaging mouth and the PTT switch, they shouldn't pass the test and a 1 should be marked in the appropriate section.

Secondly, why isn't this the jurisdiction of Industry Canada as well? How are people getting radio licences if they can't pass a language proficiency test?

[Nappy]

The industry Canada side of it is a complete and utter joke. I mean, you can either have oral questions, just the exam (so the examiner who doesn't give a d*** never even has to hear the candidate), or a combination of both. So the language proficiency exam I guess compliments this (like a check on your radio license?) And I have to agree with MichaelIP when he says the EPC should be better developed. Being an ESL instructor myself I totally get it when someone has difficulty on the radio... and as it stands right now, well, if your English is not all that great, well, you still get it but all you have to do is pass the same exam in a couple of years.. wasn't the point here to improve English comms and not just catalogue who is excelent, okay and mediocre?

[AUGER9]

Another instance of TC droppin the ball. Why not replace the written radio exam with an oral radio exam? Things were fine before all these foreign students came in, something really needs to be done. Katanas are hard enough to see as it is, when a dozen of them start buzzing around and you can't understand 1 damn word they say, things get interesting.

[Old Dog Flying]

One very big problem is that some of the ESL flight instructors are teaching in the cockpit in their own language which negates anything that the student might have been taught in the classroom...and this was affirmed by an ESL instructor. Before my retirement as a controller, I had a lot of experience dealing with ESL students both in the military and civil ATC and I know only too well how important it is to be able to communicate from both sides of the fence.

The EPT or whatever it is called as administered by TCCA is a joke and whoever came up with it should be strung up by the short curlies...and any school that has ESL flight instructors on staff and allows them to use anything but English should join the TCCA lynching.

Barney Retired Controller, retired flight instrucftor...just plane retired

[deflux]

I'm a new pilot (just past first solo) and I was doing circuits today at my home airport and there were 2 katanas visiting from somewhere else also in the circuit...

I couldn't understand a word they said....Made me feel really comfortable on my 2nd solo

[ToFlyIsDivine]

hahaha......doesn't it make you feel good....hahaha.....people who don't speak english at all can fly....why can't I

ahahahahhaa

[E-Flyer]

Another instance of TC droppin the ball. Why not replace the written radio exam with an oral radio exam? Things were fine before all these foreign students came in, something really needs to be done. Katanas are hard enough to see as it is, when a dozen of them start buzzing around and you can't understand 1 damn word they say, things get interesting.

Well Said, the vancouver areas being a prime example of that !

From what I know Montair sends it's students on solo cross countries in a bunch... and trust me, that was interesting to listen to. I flew into a lot of congested airports where the controller was worked up on my 1500 nm trip (lol) and yet I've never heard an ATC so worked up as abbotsford. Mind you there were a few cessna's buzzing around as well glider activity. But still, I had no problems getting in and out.


Fair enough, you send students from overseas to come and train because it's cheaper and blah blah blah. Well these guys are going back to their country, doing a quick conversion to their own authority, and then are thrown on the 737 or A320 and are expected to do international flights where the language is English. If these guys can't give proper position reports in english, what makes you so confident that they wouldn't say "Three Green" when they put the landing gear down when in all reality the lights are all off.

I don't know, that's my opinion.

[2R]

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