Ornge Pilot Pay vs. Medics Pay

[ipilot54]

Why such a large discrepancy between what Ornge is paying their pilots vs. the medics in the back??

Pilatus PC12 Captain (Ref: PC12PIC/AZN)
As Captain reporting to the Chief Pilot, you will be acting as Pilot in Command
of the aircraft and be responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the
safety of all persons on board. Salary range is between $50,000 and $70,000,
depending on experience. Ten positions need to be filled. Pilatus PC12 First Officer (Ref: PC12FO/AZN)

The information below is PUBLIC information off the Ontario Government’s website so don't panic! All "public employees" who make more than $100,000 per year MUST be made public. You won't see any pilots on the list next year!
Salary Disclosure 2008 (Disclosure for 2007)
Other Public Sector Employers

Ornge AUGER PATRICK M Critical Care Paramedic $103,058.40
Ornge BIRD ROBERT A Critical Care Paramedic $100,698.90
Ornge BLUM JACOB H Vice President, Regulatory Affairs $138,593.76
Ornge DOSTAL CARA L Pediatric Transport Registered Nurse $103,522.68
Ornge DUGUAY DAN L Critical Care Paramedic $104,080.87
Ornge FARKAS ANDREA M Operations Manager $104,226.42
Ornge FARQUHAR STEPHEN F Director, Operations $140,185.50
Ornge HANCHARUK JENNIFER V Critical Care Paramedic $108,595.38
Ornge HUNT ANDREW J Critical Care Paramedic $110,473.68
Ornge KING KEVIN L Program Manager, Human Patient Simulator $111,820.57
Ornge LAVERGNE NATALIE K Critical Care Paramedic $104,707.84
Ornge LEE JONATHAN W Critical Care Paramedic $104,715.98
Ornge LEPINE THOMAS Vice President, Operations $158,269.36
Ornge MASON BARBARA A Director, Risk Management & Medical Affairs $128,454.06
Ornge MAZZA CHRIS Chief Executive Officer $298,254.39
Ornge MCARTHUR BRADLEY J Critical Care Paramedic $103,715.48
Ornge MEKIS ROBERT Critical Care Paramedic $108,928.19
Ornge MOFFAT GREGOR T Critical Care Paramedic Step 4 $108,205.61
Ornge MORRISON MERIDETH E Director, Research & Development $132,503.32
Ornge NAGASUYE GARY I Director, Finance $103,862.06
Ornge ONODERA DOUGLAS F Critical Care Paramedic $104,062.98
Ornge O'SHAUGHNESSY DAVID A Critical Care Paramedic $106,370.21
Ornge PEVERE JASON J Critical Care Paramedic $104,770.48
Ornge PRICE JENNIFER Critical Care Paramedic $112,518.60
Ornge QUENNEVILLE DENNIS F Critical Care Paramedic $108,429.41
Ornge RENZELLA MARIA P Executive Vice President, Corporate Services $173,057.15
Ornge SAWADSKY BRUCE V Chief of Staff $228,114.36
Ornge SLOAN JOHN D Critical Care Paramedic $106,076.66
Ornge SOUCIE JEREMIAH J Critical Care Paramedic $101,654.46
Ornge STEARY DUGG Critical Care Paramedic $106,077.43
Ornge TREMBLAY MARC A Director, Ontario Communication Center $117,984.49
Ornge TREMBLE MATTHEW Critical Care Paramedic $106,979.67
Ornge WISMER JOHN B Critical Care Paramedic $107,716.54
Ornge WOOD JERRY J Critical Care Paramedic $105,529.65
Ornge YELLE RICHARD M Operations Manager $105,742.96
Ornge ZANON PETER B Critical Care Paramedic $104,538.65

[Rudy]

Go become a medic then. I think it's only a 1 year course you need.

[sky's the limit]

Go become a medic then. I think it's only a 1 year course you need.

Rudy,

You're missing the point, and I find your response very frustrating as it is endemic of the general attitude pilots in Canada have adopted.

Perhaps you like working for less than fair wages in a given application, but I know I don't.

stl

[Doc]

Paramedics have a powerful union. Pilots are whores. Pilots will actually "buy" jobs. Paramedics won't get out of bed for less than a 100K a year. Are pilots worth more than paramedics? Won't go there. Are paramedics worth over 100K a year? IMHO, no. But, again the "public" thinks they are....and you pilot whores are still "buying" your jobs....you do the math.

[kevenv]

Until such time as pilots realize what they are worth it won't change. If no one applied for the low paying jobs the salaries would go up. Unfortunately it seems there is always someone willing to take the low pay and or crappy conditions in exchange for the experience or type rating.

[Rubberbiscuit]

Paramedics are not overpaid. Pilots are severely underpaid as Doc mentioned.

[Rudy]

So let's form a union.

[Caracrane]

Rudy..........Shut up or continue

[Caracrane]

Rubberbiscuit has the answer

[LegoMan]

Pilots are willing to work for crap wages because they are just building experience. They will move from job to job until they have enough experience to land the job they want. As a flight medic, thats it. Thats the pinnacle of their career and thats where they will stay. If pilots in Canada were able to go from college to Airlines, they wouldnt work for such crap wages. But in the meantime we dont care as we just need to find work. Its also supply and demand. We have too many pilots not enough jobs, with nurses/medics its the opposite.

[Rudy]

I'm was playing devil's advocate there. If I worked as a captain at this orange place for 50k and flew around medics making 100k+ I couldn't handle it. Listing all their names and salaries on here won't do anything though. Maybe it's time we did something about it? I'm paid well for my current job. Not quite as well as those medics but I do ok. I went through some shit to get here though. The problem is people get through it and selfishly forget so the next batch of young pilots get shafted just like we did. I did the 25k co-pilot thing for a couple years and wouldn't wish that on anyone. What's the next step to fix it? How do we get the ball rolling?

[DHC3Rwannafly]

Let's not forget....critical care paramedic is at the top of the paramedic ranks....pc-12 driver on the other hand?Not very high on the pilot ranks. Why don't you compare your 50-70K salary to a primary care paramedic.

[ipilot54]

Fresh out of school the Primary Care medic can advance to Critical Care in about 3 years if they push themselves. (they also make between 45 and 50G's to start) Of course they need to the Advanced Care thing in the middle. Even if they took 5 years, how long does it take a pilot to make 6 figures? Let’s not forget that just 7 years ago, medics were a “dime a dozen” too! It is going back that way today as well….the schools are still pumping our Primary Care medics and they (all) cannot find work. The shortage was caused by two things in Ontario; the EMCA course changed from one to two years and at the same time, the province mandated that all ambulances be manned by paramedics. They weren’t in small communities.

So, the medic’s pay went up due to the shortage…why didn’t the pilot’s pay go up during our shortage????

Doc is 100% right!

[matrix]

So, the medic’s pay went up due to the shortage…why didn’t the pilot’s pay go up during our shortage????

Probably due to attitudes like this one from a different thread about CMA's Dornier:

Be prepared to get paid very little, work fairly hard but fly a SWEEEET airplane. Its up to you.

[ragbagflyer]

I'm not sure what the pay system is for paramedics in Ontario, but if a few of them are making coin like that I'm guessing it's structured something like the Yukon system. There the hourly wage of the paramedics isn't that spectacular, but there is TONS of overtime, double time and on call pay. A paramedic friend of mine has explained it to me before and it's absolutely mind blowing how much opportunity there is to get extra money, and it doesn't even involve working a bunch of extra hours because it's just as much about when you work the hours as it is about how many you work. I just emailed my friend and asked him to send me the details of his pay system. Of course the medivac pilot's put up with all the same hassle and weird hours, but as it's been said, a lot of pilots are whores.
The flying job I'm at now actually has an overtime system in place. Example, if we're called for a day that wasn't on the schedule for the month, it's OT regardless of if it puts our duty hours over 160 for that 28 day period. If a scheduled work day is cancelled, we still get six hours pay. We're guaranteed 140 duty hours in the winter, and 160 in the summer. Any hours over 160 are OT. For holidays not worked we are payed 10 hours, for holidays worked it's double time and a half. It doesn't measure up to the paramedics system but it's fair and everything is clearly laid out.

[sprucemonkey]

Ornge is going to be a stepping stone with salaries like that.

[xsbank]

ALL of the OMNR (etc.) Provincial pilots are badly paid.

All of 'em.

[kingeddie]

XS
, The OMNR salary scales as published do not reflect actual earnings . Check the disclosure list and you will find OMNR, OPP, and Hydro pilots on it , plus full benefits pension indexed to inflation until you die 5 weeks vacation and on and on and the ORNGE helicopter wages are far and away above the FW posting .Captians top out at 95K plus overtime and FOs top out at 63K plus overtime . Im sure that PC 12s will have overtime entitlements as well like their rotary counterparts


http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/public ... ries08.pdf
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/public ... tric08.pdf

[xsbank]

OK, there are 2 - 415 captains and 1 fixed wing under MNR. The highest is $107,000. I looked it up. How many work there? I still think that they are poorly paid. That's 3 pilots that make as much as all of those paramedics.

I stand by my comment.

[Stan_Cooper]

you're only worth as much as it costs to replace you.

[Rudy]

Was that for this year? It was a terrible fire season (unless your a tree). There was a fellow on here saying that a lot of the MNR salaries were made up of overtime and working on holiday pay. Remember that's for only a few months work too.

[ipilot54]

All the figures are for the year 2007.

BTW....That ain't OT that brought the wages up. In fact, they REALLY whine if they don't get home in time!

[Driving Rain]

All the figures are for the year 2007.

BTW....That ain't OT that brought the wages up. In fact, they REALLY whine if they don't get home in time!

It is so OT that brought the wages up. We get the choice of taking OT in cash or time off. Most take time off or a combination of the two. The two 415 guys that made the list took most of it in cash. Ask me how I know.
There are I think 22 415 pilots 11 capt. and 11 co-pilots in the bargining unit.

What the list doesn't show is the pilots who made just shy of the $100k mark. That would be most of the other 9 captains. Vacation credits are are 5 or 6 weeks depending on length of service.

[Doc]

415 pilot's pay rates are a little irrelevant when talking about paramedics pay rates. The more comparable pay examples would have to be taken from the pilot group that actually flies these folks around. And these pilots are woefully underpaid! But, you know what? It's their own bloody fault! If you have the low self worth required to fly a mission in the middle of the night, make the go/no go decisions required to pull it off safely, be responsible for ALL the lives on board your aircraft, for less than half the pay rate the guy gets to, lets face it, in a lot of cases, babysit some "patient" who missed the sked with a hangnail, then, that's all you're worth! And it's YOUR fault. Don't dump on the paramedics for knowing a good thing when they see it......dump on yourselves for being STUPID!!

Stop applying for these "jobs". Let ORNGE get off their wallets and PAY for pilots! Hell, make the entire flight crew get the same pay rate! Stand on your hind legs for a change. If a paramedic is worth 110K to be a passenger on half the flight, the pilot is worth 110K for getting his ass there and back! Is this rocket science??? You PUSSIES!

[E-Flyer]

Paramedics have a powerful union. Pilots are whores. Pilots will actually "buy" jobs. Paramedics won't get out of bed for less than a 100K a year. Are pilots worth more than paramedics? Won't go there. Are paramedics worth over 100K a year? IMHO, no. But, again the "public" thinks they are....and you pilot whores are still "buying" your jobs....you do the math.

Aren't paramedics saving lives as much as pilot's are? I don't think they're worthy of less but I think I know what you're getting at; it takes longer for pilots to become proficient at the stage to fly for six figure salaries, and it takes paramedics 1 year.