ACA212 Oct 31st, 2008

[E-Flyer]

I just wanted to comment on the excellent service onboard that flight and safe flight crew. We pushed back, and then right after engine start on the A321, the flight crew shut down the engines. They came on the PA saying that dispatch had just notified them that CYYC had gone to single runway op's and therefore they needed to refuel for 20-30 min holds to maintain safety. It was great to see that they would make such a decision; I am just curious though, was this decision related to obviously common sense as well as CAR 602.88 Paragraph 5 (e) ? And also, since when does Calgary Use both 16/34 as well as 28/10 simultaneously for them to be restricted to single runway op's with results of holds?

I thought I heard somewhere that you had to have required fuel to hold for "x" amount of time period? or maybe I misunderstood the hold for something else.


Last but not least, ACA gives away 333ml Can's without Charging now? I asked for Canada Dry and I got an entire Can... This is the way it was the old days but I mean, I felt so rewarded

[amraam]

YYC was single runway ops for a good portion of yesterday due to lack of manpower. Seems to happen pretty frequently and can cause arrival delays on even the clearest of days.

amraam

[BLZD1]

They probably had a flight plan with no Alternate IFR. To fly no Alternate IFR (contact) you need to have two suitable runways to land on at your destination. So they probably added an Alternate to there flight plan therefore requiring more fuel.

[E-Flyer]

Okay very cool, thanks so much

[k411]

About the question regarding single runway op's at cyyc, they almost always have at leats 2 (4), if not all 3 (6) runways going, 34-16 usually handles the biggest aircraft, like any 747's, older style aircraft that need the extra runway (something like a mile long runway, might even be a bit more), and most aircraft with emergencies use the 34-16 due to this extra length, however the other runways (28-10, and 25-07) are long enough for 320's and 37's, and on more than one occasion I have seen LAHSO op's using all 3 rwy's, so thats why they had such long waits when they went to single rwy ops, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that 3 rwy's worth of air traffic (LDG, and TO) funneling down into one runway is going to create considerable backlogs, even with efficent ATC services.

[Dave T]

They probably had a flight plan with no Alternate IFR. To fly no Alternate IFR (contact) you need to have two suitable runways to land on at your destination. So they probably added an Alternate to there flight plan therefore requiring more fuel.

Highly unlikely unless the runway was actually NOTAM'd closed. Most no alternate Op Spec's just state that you need two suitable runways. Nothing about two active runways. This is incase there is an emergency or they have to close a runway for some other reason. Saves you from getting getting there and not having a runway to land on with no fuel for an alternate.

Having traffic using the intersecting runways in YYC takes alot of coordination with both the tower and arrival controllers. If they are short staffed they cannot make it work and they go to one runway. IFR fuel requirements say you have to have fuel for any expected delays ect enroute. Likely they had a flight plan with tight fuel and once dispatch found out there were holding in YYC they needed to add some more fuel to be able to hold for awhile on the way in.

On a side note, flow times, crossing times, and holds are all fairly regular when YYC gets really busy and the weather is bad in the winter time.

[BLZD1]

Dave T

I agree. I thought maybe they closed one runway or the approach aid U/S and that Dispatch/Capt. wanted more gas. Like you, I was just guessing. Just to add to your commits the Airport also needs:

Two separate runways (one must meet wet landing distance requirement).
Two suitable and independent IFR approach aids and two suitable and useable instrument approach procedures.
Emergency or Standby electrical power supply.
Temporary closed Runways okay if they can be reopen if other runway is closed unexpected.

WX Stuff:

One hour before until one hour after ETA - no risk of fog or other restrictions to visibility, including precipitation (forecast or reported), below 3 miles.
No risk of thunderstorms, isolated or otherwise, forecast or reported.
Forecast ceiling of at least 1,000 feet above second lowest FAF and a visibility of at least 3 miles.
OR
A ceiling of at least 1,500 AAE feet and a visibility of at least 6 miles.
No risk of freezing rain, freezing drizzle or sleet forecast or reported.

I had a couple bad experiences in YYC last winter. One the ceiling was 300 feet, 1 - 2 mile in snow and good runway conditions and we still had to hold for thirty minutes. In the end we ended up diverting to YEG.