first year float wages (bush)
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore, Rudder Bug
Re: first year float wages (bush)
Just take what you can get, as long as they let you fly too. The money gets better fast, depending on your negotiating skills. I got news for some of you new guys: I've been flying for some time, and still have to dig the occasional pooper-hole. Very seldom mind you. I also still clean the plane, polish it and entertain the bosses dog. On that note, my wife is from a south-east asian country and has some excellent recipes for dog...
Drinking lots of coffee lately, at a nice safe jungle desk, wishing I were flying......
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Cat Driver wrote:
"Disheartening? Look at the positive side you are now a real commercial pilot living the dream".
I have read some of your other posts and I have to ask,
Are you on crack or what?
When you take the romance out of bush flying all you have left is hard work, lousy pay, short seasons, unemployment and an old truck to drive. Just look at the vehicles parked at the dock in Red Lake.
Bush flying is a serious job with serious consequensis if you are "dreaming"
The last few years have seen a shortage of skilled "bush pilots". The insurance industry have increased requirments for pilots and have added to the shortage of "insurance" qualified pilots as well. This is the first time in many, many years where the pilots have had the ball in their court. If YOU want better pay then don't fly untill you get it, it is that simple.
Remember, after freeze up the "company" who couldn't pay you more than $3000.00 a month for 16 hour, 7 days a week job ( because they told you the tourist industry was down this year and they didn't know how they were gonna pay thier bills) will be wintering in Arizona, driving a new Escalade, sipping margaritas while you stand in line for unemployment insurance looking for money to pay the guy who boosted your 1995 Chev beater so you could get to the poggy office in the first place.
We work for lousy pay because there is always some guy "dreaming" of being a bush pilot, sitting on the dock in Red Lake, listening to romance stories told by some old guy driving a 1995 Chev beater, living in a shack who couldn't write you a check for $20.00.
You are a skilled individual, just as the lawyer is a skilled individual, he likes his job, you like your job and at the end of the day it is a JOB and you deserve to get paid for your services.
There are some good companies to work for who pay a fare wage for your services, but only because the pilots who work there demand a fare wage.
"Disheartening? Look at the positive side you are now a real commercial pilot living the dream".
I have read some of your other posts and I have to ask,
Are you on crack or what?
When you take the romance out of bush flying all you have left is hard work, lousy pay, short seasons, unemployment and an old truck to drive. Just look at the vehicles parked at the dock in Red Lake.
Bush flying is a serious job with serious consequensis if you are "dreaming"
The last few years have seen a shortage of skilled "bush pilots". The insurance industry have increased requirments for pilots and have added to the shortage of "insurance" qualified pilots as well. This is the first time in many, many years where the pilots have had the ball in their court. If YOU want better pay then don't fly untill you get it, it is that simple.
Remember, after freeze up the "company" who couldn't pay you more than $3000.00 a month for 16 hour, 7 days a week job ( because they told you the tourist industry was down this year and they didn't know how they were gonna pay thier bills) will be wintering in Arizona, driving a new Escalade, sipping margaritas while you stand in line for unemployment insurance looking for money to pay the guy who boosted your 1995 Chev beater so you could get to the poggy office in the first place.
We work for lousy pay because there is always some guy "dreaming" of being a bush pilot, sitting on the dock in Red Lake, listening to romance stories told by some old guy driving a 1995 Chev beater, living in a shack who couldn't write you a check for $20.00.
You are a skilled individual, just as the lawyer is a skilled individual, he likes his job, you like your job and at the end of the day it is a JOB and you deserve to get paid for your services.
There are some good companies to work for who pay a fare wage for your services, but only because the pilots who work there demand a fare wage.
Last edited by Green Hornet on Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Green Hornet, how many of my posts have you read that makes you think I'm on crack?
My comment was made to point out the simple fact that most young pilots start out making peanuts and working like slaves just to get a job flying in the bush.
So all they have really gained is a foot in the door so to speak hoping to live their dream.
If you have some workable solution to solve the shortage why don't you try and do something about it?
My comment was made to point out the simple fact that most young pilots start out making peanuts and working like slaves just to get a job flying in the bush.
So all they have really gained is a foot in the door so to speak hoping to live their dream.
So you tell me why there is a shortage of skilled bush pilots and what you feel is needed to solve that problem, I assume you feel you are a skilled bush pilot of course.The last few years have seen a shortage of skilled "bush pilots". The insurance industry have increased requirments for pilots and have added to the shortage of "insurance" qualified pilots as well. This is the first time in many, many years where the pilots have had the ball in their court. If YOU want better pay then don't fly untill you get it, it is that simple.
If you have some workable solution to solve the shortage why don't you try and do something about it?
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
There is no need to solve the shortage. The shortage is good for us as pilots because when there is a shortage higher wages need to be paid to obtain qualified staff.
However, as long as you support the idea that it is "ok" to work like a slave for peanuts to get a foot hold into the industry there will always be outfitters prostituting young pilots. Right now the indusrty is seeing guys jumping into Beavers with 500 hours tt. This was unheard of 20 years ago. This spring there were 3 or 4 a/c accidents before the season even began. It is obvious that there is a shortage of pilots accross the entire aviation spectrum so there is no need to shovel shit and lick boots to be a "bush" pilot.
And yes, I am an experienced Seaplane pilot and would not get out of bed to fly a Piper Cub for $3000.00 a month.
However, as long as you support the idea that it is "ok" to work like a slave for peanuts to get a foot hold into the industry there will always be outfitters prostituting young pilots. Right now the indusrty is seeing guys jumping into Beavers with 500 hours tt. This was unheard of 20 years ago. This spring there were 3 or 4 a/c accidents before the season even began. It is obvious that there is a shortage of pilots accross the entire aviation spectrum so there is no need to shovel shit and lick boots to be a "bush" pilot.
And yes, I am an experienced Seaplane pilot and would not get out of bed to fly a Piper Cub for $3000.00 a month.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
., I just read a few of your posts and you and Cat Driver seem to feed off of each other, kind of like Ying and Yang, Abbot and Costello, MUTT AND JEFF, if you get my meaning.
You two characters seem to dominate the forums, you and a handfull of others. I have read these forums for a year and have never joined because of the mud slingging you two fellows are fond of engaging in.
I only hope your skills as pilots are inadvance of your thoughts and comments because from a purley spectator posistion you two clowns are like lice an a fleas dick if you get my drift.
You two guys are like the big dog on Bugs Bunny, you know the big dog who walks around with the little dog jumping all over the big dog, Spike is his name I believe. Hey Cat Driver you wanna go flying, "smack" Nah .. ok Cat Driver wanna go Fishing, "smack" Nah .... ok ok ok.... maybe you wanna blow smoke up Chucks ass ..
You two characters seem to dominate the forums, you and a handfull of others. I have read these forums for a year and have never joined because of the mud slingging you two fellows are fond of engaging in.
I only hope your skills as pilots are inadvance of your thoughts and comments because from a purley spectator posistion you two clowns are like lice an a fleas dick if you get my drift.
You two guys are like the big dog on Bugs Bunny, you know the big dog who walks around with the little dog jumping all over the big dog, Spike is his name I believe. Hey Cat Driver you wanna go flying, "smack" Nah .. ok Cat Driver wanna go Fishing, "smack" Nah .... ok ok ok.... maybe you wanna blow smoke up Chucks ass ..
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
What gives you the idea I support pilots working for poor pay?
What is wrong with a pilot with 500 hours flying a Beaver arguably one of the most idiot proof bush planes ever made?
By the way if you have lice on your dick maybe you should be more selective in who you mate with.
What is wrong with a pilot with 500 hours flying a Beaver arguably one of the most idiot proof bush planes ever made?
Interesting opinions you have Green Hornet, but just to make it easy for you Cat Driver was a name I used when I first started posting on Avcanada, then I decided to use my real name so people like you could come on here and educate me in how to be a real pilot.
I only hope your skills as pilots are inadvance of your thoughts and comments because from a purley spectator posistion you two clowns are like lice an a fleas dick if you get my drift.
By the way if you have lice on your dick maybe you should be more selective in who you mate with.
Well Green Hornet my skills as a pilot are good enough that I probably make more in one hour of flying than you do in a full day flying airplanes.
I only hope your skills as pilots are inadvance of your thought
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Well lets see.....
First, the DHC-2 is one of the most succesfull a/c of all time in it's field. As for 500 tt pilots I have no problem and I am sure there are many "under paid" young fellas flying them quite capably. My point was that 20 years ago you had to have 2500 hours TT to get on a beaver because there were so many pilots available, same as the 600 TT pilot on a Cheyene, 10 years ago you needed 2500 TT to sit left seat. All reduced to low time pilots because of crew shortage. Which, in simple terms so you can understand it means
supply and demand .. higer wages. A Cheyenne captain 5 years ago made $35,000.00 per year , now they make $65,000.00 ... see what I am getting at.
Now a 500 TT anyone has less experience that a 2500 TT anyone. The Beaver at goss weight + 300 lbs ( as per usuall) on a small lake on a hot day with 75 ft tress on the other end makes a long day for mr. 500. The plane is as you put it "idiot" proof , it's just the opperators that lack common sense.
As far as what you make versus what I make ... I will be in Arizona for the winter (leaving Nov. 15) my Escalade is white and will be parked beside my Harley which I use to drive to the local airfield when I fo fly my Stearman.
Where are you going for the winter?
Are you the same Ellison that is chief Pilot for Kenora Airservice?
And as far as changing your name .... you would have to the way you bash everyone around...
First, the DHC-2 is one of the most succesfull a/c of all time in it's field. As for 500 tt pilots I have no problem and I am sure there are many "under paid" young fellas flying them quite capably. My point was that 20 years ago you had to have 2500 hours TT to get on a beaver because there were so many pilots available, same as the 600 TT pilot on a Cheyene, 10 years ago you needed 2500 TT to sit left seat. All reduced to low time pilots because of crew shortage. Which, in simple terms so you can understand it means
supply and demand .. higer wages. A Cheyenne captain 5 years ago made $35,000.00 per year , now they make $65,000.00 ... see what I am getting at.
Now a 500 TT anyone has less experience that a 2500 TT anyone. The Beaver at goss weight + 300 lbs ( as per usuall) on a small lake on a hot day with 75 ft tress on the other end makes a long day for mr. 500. The plane is as you put it "idiot" proof , it's just the opperators that lack common sense.
As far as what you make versus what I make ... I will be in Arizona for the winter (leaving Nov. 15) my Escalade is white and will be parked beside my Harley which I use to drive to the local airfield when I fo fly my Stearman.
Where are you going for the winter?
Are you the same Ellison that is chief Pilot for Kenora Airservice?
And as far as changing your name .... you would have to the way you bash everyone around...
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Green Hornet I see you are joining our little group of posters here on Avcanada...welcome to the group.
However before you start making stupid comments about people who you obviously know nothing about maybe you could elaborate on your background and qualifications so when you decide to insult one of us we can take into consideration your background.
Once again before you decide to insult my qualifications bear in mind I don't have to worry about pay for the simple reason I get paid very well when I fly.
However before you start making stupid comments about people who you obviously know nothing about maybe you could elaborate on your background and qualifications so when you decide to insult one of us we can take into consideration your background.
Once again before you decide to insult my qualifications bear in mind I don't have to worry about pay for the simple reason I get paid very well when I fly.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Why?
Are you the same Ellison that is chief Pilot for Kenora Airservice?
Gross weight plus 300 pounds???Now a 500 TT anyone has less experience that a 2500 TT anyone. The Beaver at goss weight + 300 lbs ( as per usuall) on a small lake on a hot day with 75 ft tress on the other end makes a long day for mr. 500. The plane is as you put it "idiot" proof , it's just the opperators that lack common sense.
Is that the way you fly one?
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Are you the Chief Pilot for Kenora Airservice?
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Well if you were the Cheif Pilot for KA then you would be the guy, who, according to a few of your fellow collegues in Kenora , is a drunk, foul tempered and senile. And if you were that guy whats it feel like to be replaced by a guy like Kranston.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Why do you think that Green Hornet?Are you the Chief Pilot for Kenora Airservice?
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Location: Always moving
Re: first year float wages (bush)
Green Hornet you are way off the mark when it comes to your guess of who I am.
But who are you?
But who are you?
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Well I think that because you you have the same or similar last name to the CP of KA.
Hard to tell they all have nick names ... Cranny, Benny The Rat, Ellis the drunk, MJ the big one .....etc
Hard to tell they all have nick names ... Cranny, Benny The Rat, Ellis the drunk, MJ the big one .....etc
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Dosn't matter who we are .....
Just thought I could put a person with the legend.
Just thought I could put a person with the legend.
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
As you can see the Bush industry is small and I have been around a long time. We probably know each other .. and you probably know all the nick names .. I have met some of them ... heard about others ..all part of the "dream".
They call me "Maverick" as my nick name incase some day I am mentioned in one of your Bush Legends....
They call me "Maverick" as my nick name incase some day I am mentioned in one of your Bush Legends....
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Your world is obviously very limited Green Hornet, and before you start making insulting comments about people here maybe you could at least be up front about who you are.....judging by your posts here you must think you are someone special as a pilot...note I said " you " .
Like I said, I post using my real name for the simple reason I am not in the least worried about anyone knowing my background as a pilot.
It will be interesting to see how the little group in your area react to your comparing me to whoever you were referring to. :mrgreen
Like I said, I post using my real name for the simple reason I am not in the least worried about anyone knowing my background as a pilot.
It will be interesting to see how the little group in your area react to your comparing me to whoever you were referring to. :mrgreen
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
- Location: Always moving
Re: first year float wages (bush)
I doubt it.As you can see the Bush industry is small and I have been around a long time. We probably know each other...
What do you consider a long time?
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
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Green Hornet
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- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:52 am
Re: first year float wages (bush)
My little area is quite large as I fly and have flown all over the world.
I do have a fairly extensive aviation background and have flown over 140 different a/c in my last 30 years.
I love my Stearman though .....
Anyway as far as insulting anyone .. I was just passing on the common known gossip facts ... I mean after the "Big One" tells everyone she meets about her current staffs life and problems ... it becomes, you know things "dreams" are made of.
But ... I think I have hit close enough to home to get my point across.......
I do have a fairly extensive aviation background and have flown over 140 different a/c in my last 30 years.
I love my Stearman though .....
Anyway as far as insulting anyone .. I was just passing on the common known gossip facts ... I mean after the "Big One" tells everyone she meets about her current staffs life and problems ... it becomes, you know things "dreams" are made of.
But ... I think I have hit close enough to home to get my point across.......
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Well God willing .... you and I will survive the winter ... you frozen in Northern Ontario looking at your old Chevy .. me backing in the sun ... in Arizona....
Re: first year float wages (bush)
"Ellis Bottenfield" does kinda sound like ". Ellisworth", mabe if you were menatally challenged! Lets hear some more M.R. GREENHORNET, you retard, you sound like you are a spoiled brat "just of the titty" and you did'nt get your way? If you were from red lake or even been there before you would know who Ellis is, hes been around for a long time. I don't know him that well(only met him a few times in kenora) but seem like a nice enough guy to me.
Re: first year float wages (bush)
if you could not tell that"Cat driver and ". Ellisworth" were the same person, don't mean to cut you down, but you are stupid! simple as that.
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Chuck Ellsworth
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
Green Hornet:
Your ego is only exceeded by your ignorance.
When you started flying I had moved far beyond the bush flying segment of aviation.
I have no idea who you are comparing me to in your little sliver of the aviation world...
However keep posting so everyone can get a good laugh as you make a fool of yourself.
Your ego is only exceeded by your ignorance.
When you started flying I had moved far beyond the bush flying segment of aviation.
I have no idea who you are comparing me to in your little sliver of the aviation world...
However keep posting so everyone can get a good laugh as you make a fool of yourself.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: first year float wages (bush)
show us some pcs of that nice white escallade! or the hog, not too fussy. I call Bullshit! Didn't you say in another post that "the boss drives the white escallade" and thats wrong? I thought you were trying to make it better for us "poor" bush pilots? Lets hear more, I just cracked my fist beer, and don't have to be back at work until "may" so i got lots of time!
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Green Hornet
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Re: first year float wages (bush)
SDP .. first thing you should do with your spare time is learn how to spell.
Next you should learn some manners.
Lastly you should quit kissing everyones ass here.
Do you suck this hard at work?
Next you should learn some manners.
Lastly you should quit kissing everyones ass here.
Do you suck this hard at work?
