RCMP - CYVR - Polish Immigrant

[Topspin]

But Monty is yet to be charged for the DUI murder either. Is that it? Become a cop and be above the law?

[Wilbur]

First, the cops involved were cleared by the BC Government's criminal justice branch, not the RCMP.

Second, there's a lesson to be learned here. When you cause trouble in a public place so that people call the cops on you, then don't follow police directions and instead pick up something to throw at them you are going to have force used to control you. Why you are behaving that way has no relevance unless you are charged and trying to cook up a defence. Doesn't matter if you don't speak english, had a bad day, are crazy, or just plain stupid - you are going to be controlled first by whatever means the cops feel is justified in the circumstances, in accordance with force options policy as depicted in the force options wheel. What level of force is justified is subjective, and any reasonable balance of doubt always goes in favour of those acting in support of the law; be it cops, other peace officers, security guards, bouncers, etc. You own your choices, behaviour, and consequences whether you want to or not. The cops aren't your baby sitter and have no obligation to try cajoling you into behaving differently or accepting avoidable risks to their personal safety. If risk to someone's safety is going to be increased, it's going to be the troublemaker's. You might wish the law was different, but it's not.

Third, the impaired driving charge against the one cop may be months in the making. On the news last week was a story of a women charged in Delta in a very similar impaired driving causing death case. It was a 7 month investigation and there's no reason to think this one will be any quicker.

[Topspin]

First, the cops involved were cleared by the BC Government's criminal justice branch, not the RCMP.

Second, there's a lesson to be learned here. When you cause trouble in a public place so that people call the cops on you, then don't follow police directions and instead pick up something to throw at them you are going to have force used to control you. Why you are behaving that way has no relevance unless you are charged and trying to cook up a defence. Doesn't matter if you don't speak english, had a bad day, are crazy, or just plain stupid - you are going to be controlled first by whatever means the cops feel is justified in the circumstances, in accordance with force options policy as depicted in the force options wheel. What level of force is justified is subjective, and any reasonable balance of doubt always goes in favour of those acting in support of the law; be it cops, other peace officers, security guards, bouncers, etc. You own your choices, behaviour, and consequences whether you want to or not. The cops aren't your baby sitter and have no obligation to try cajoling you into behaving differently or accepting avoidable risks to their personal safety. If risk to someone's safety is going to be increased, it's going to be the troublemaker's. You might wish the law was different, but it's not.

Absolutely, I have no issue whatsoever with 1, 2 & even 3 uses of the taser. The issue comes into play when they kneel on top of his neck for 5 minutes before calling the ERS team that is on standby 24/7. They watched him die. That's murder in my books.

Third, the impaired driving charge against the one cop may be months in the making. On the news last week was a story of a women charged in Delta in a very similar impaired driving causing death case. It was a 7 month investigation and there's no reason to think this one will be any quicker.

Do you actually believe he will be punished though?

[square]

Guys.

He had a stapler.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Guys.

He had a stapler.

That must have been one hell of a stapler!

[Cat Driver]

How many of you here would like to be around Wilbur if he had a taser to control you with?

[Troubleshot]

I agree with wilbur, I am in an airport right now as I write this and I guarantee if you if I got up and threw the chair I am sitting in and wouldn't allow people to come near me... the RCMP would most certainly be called and I would be taken by force....and why shouldn't I be? If I was a by-stander I would want the RCMP to take this wack job outta here. I'd rather be tasered and take my chances rather than night-sticked or shot...but that's just me.

[Just another canuck]

How many of you here would like to be around Wilbur if he had a taser to control you with?

Not me.

Wilbur, you can go on and on and on about how we've given these guys the right uphold the law, etc., etc. Fact of the matter is... they killed this man. Muuuuuurrrrrder. Get your head on straight.

Maybe you've lived a pretty docile life up to this point and have never been a victim to the law, whether it be RCMP or OPP or even a bouncer. Well I have. I have to admit I've ran into a few good cops out there. In fact, one of my best friends are cops. But for the most part all the cops out there are either kids who got picked on high school and are looking for payback or dumb ass brick heads that are too stupid to do anything else. Put an ex-enforcer hockey player with the maturity level of a ten year old into a uniform and there's gonna be a lot of innocents getting fucked.

You say people shouldn't be doing certain things or acting a certain way in public... blah, blah, blah. That still doesn't give the bouncer a right to beat the shit out of you or a cop the right to cuff you, throw you to ground and mash your face in the pavement when you weren't even acting aggressive.

Cops are fuckin' assholes... plain and simple.

[Just another canuck]

I agree with wilbur, I am in an airport right now as I write this and I guarantee if you if I got up and threw the chair I am sitting in and wouldn't allow people to come near me... the RCMP would most certainly be called and I would be taken by force....and why shouldn't I be? If I was a by-stander I would want the RCMP to take this wack job outta here. I'd rather be tasered and take my chances rather than night-sticked or shot...but that's just me.

There was one of him and how many cops present?? Take him down. Would that have been so hard? Then they could cuff him and give him room to breathe. He didn't have a gun. He wasn't a threat... whatever, sounds like you're oblivious as well. Somebody died over this... think about that.

[Four1oh]

Perhaps some of you saw a different video that I did. The video I saw, the cops were in the midst of discussing who would get to taser the guy as they walked by the cameraman, before they even confronted and assesed him. You know, taser first and ask questions later. I then saw that in the video, the second the cops were on scene, the perp, a man who couldn't speak english, immediately backed down, yet he was tasered anyway, and was killed as the assholes who tasered him just stood there like the assholes they are.

[Just another canuck]

Perhaps some of you saw a different video that I did. The video I saw, the cops were in the midst of discussing who would get to taser the guy as they walked by the cameraman, before they even confronted and assesed him. You know, taser first and ask questions later. I then saw that in the video, the second the cops were on scene, the perp, a man who couldn't speak english, immediately backed down, yet he was tasered anyway, and was killed as the assholes who tasered him just stood there like the assholes they are.

Exactly... they're a bunch of fuckin' assholes. And they got away with murder.

[Troubleshot]

Again it doesn't matter how many cops are there if you get taken down my hand to hand force the chance of injury to the CRIMINAL and the officer goes way up. If they guy just sat down and put his hands up he would be alive today. This shit happens all the time in other countries with language barriers.

[Topspin]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/National

Airport death not caused by tasers, B.C. says
In announcing that no charges will be laid against the RCMP, Crown concludes officers were 'lawfully engaged in their duties'

IAN BAILEY AND CAROLINE ALPHONSO

December 13, 2008

VANCOUVER, TORONTO -- The use of a taser did not cause the cardiac arrest that killed Robert Dziekanski during a confrontation with four Mounties at Vancouver International Airport last year, B.C.'s Crown office said yesterday as it ruled out charges against the officers.

"There is a substantial body of independent evidence which supports that the officers in question were lawfully engaged in their duties when they encountered Mr. Dziekanski," Crown spokesman Stan Lowe told a news conference that offered new details about the case.

"The force they used to subdue and restrain him was reasonable and necessary in the circumstances," said Mr. Lowe, noting there was no "substantial likelihood of conviction" for assault, assault with a weapon or manslaughter. "In fact, the available evidence falls markedly short of this standard."

Autopsy results outlined for the first time yesterday suggest various factors could have led to the heart attack that killed the 40-year-old Polish immigrant, including heart disease associated with chronic alcohol abuse, an agitated state of delirium and an inability to breathe while being restrained.

[Whisky 1]

No need for me to say it again.

Link:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=48599&p=465171&hilit=cops#p465171

Hey "cpl_atc", slow your roll CSI !

Best regards,

Whisky 1.

[Just another canuck]

Like I said before, most cops are dip shits to begin with. Most go out every day hoping they get to take someone down, whether it be with a taser, club or even a gun. They don't think to themselves "How can I help today?". They think "Maybe I'll get to @#$! someone up today." This is the general attitude amongst them. They're a bunch of pricks.

Most of my best friend's is an OPP officer and he's even told me stories about this shit. About how abusive and pathetic some of these guys are. He's even given me tips and advice on how to deal with highway cops and what they can and can't do. And if I feel like I'm being abused, he said don't be afraid to use his name or even call his cell and hand over the phone.

[Four1oh]

so we've evolved to a nation full of mall cops? I highly doubt it. I still have faith that the vast majority of police are respectable, well-intentioned, caring guys and gals, but as usual it's the minority that ruins it for everyone.

[Just another canuck]

Okay, well, you're probably right. Most of them are good guys/gals. Or at least after a few years they are. But I happen to know three other people quite well who have become OPP officers and all three of them fit the profile for complete and utter asshole. I wouldn't trust them to guard a door at the local LCBO. So that's four guys I grew up with that became police officers. Only one is worth anything.

Do the math. Like I said though, after a few years these guys will probably be all right. It's usually the rookie guys that cause trouble.

[CD]

Okay, well, you're probably right. Most of them are good guys/gals. Or at least after a few years they are. But I happen to know three other people quite well who have become OPP officers and all three of them fit the profile for complete and utter asshole...

Do the math. Like I said though, after a few years these guys will probably be all right. It's usually the rookie guys that cause trouble.

Sounds like most of the puppy-mill pilots I knew...

[Cat Driver]

I still have faith that the vast majority of police are respectable, well-intentioned, caring guys and gals, but as usual it's the minority that ruins it for everyone.

The Polish guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time then...sort of a police Swiss cheese moment where all four cops fit the same mold.

Maybe Wilbur can point us to some warm fuzzy pseudo legalize B.S. to make everyone feel better because the odds are in your favor that if four of them are about to arrest you that at least one of them should have a brain.

[Troubleshot]

Boy the tone of this thread changed fast...

[Cat Driver]

Boy the tone of this thread changed fast...

Some of us watched the RCMP outright lie about what happened more than once on TV....then we got to see the video that some citizen had taken.....we feel the RCMP can not be trusted...period.

[Just another canuck]

And I feel the same way... yet I feel better about them than I do the OPP. Just because I've been victimized by the bastards on more than one occasion. Aahhhh they're all criminals.

[ronjeremy]

..

[Just another canuck]

Well I have to choose between cops that abuse their rights as cops and sometimes cause accidents as negligent as murder AND a pilot or atc... I choose pilot or atc.

[Whisky 1]

ronjeremy, you wouldn't go into a high risk situation you would probably poop your pants. You're the one who bashes cops and then calls when you need one. Sign up if you can do better. Good luck with the background check.