CL215s on the outs?

[onezerotenthousand]

Fire bombing in Alberta without all (6) 215's and more and more 802's will be alot like the seasonal forecast and how it feels on the ground... lots of swatting mosquito's and a few "scattered showers".

[Cat Driver]

lots of swatting mosquito's and a few "scattered showers".

I assume by that you mean the 802's are ineffective because they don't carry enough liquid?

Does fire suppression require massive loads so as to make sure some gets on the target?

[onezerotenthousand]

It has more to do with the politics of the whole thing as AB gov't isn't really concerned with fighting fire. But yes I'll take 3 215's over 6 802's anyday, the load is just more effective. Yes this can be complicated by alot of things, experience on the button, speaks volumes for getting any portion of the load where it should be. I've seen the greatest effectiveness with all combinations of a/c around fires, including 802's and helicopters, it just happens sometimes more is better and most versatile, dependent of fire activity. The whole deal just stinks... worse than northern muskeg.

[Forestdump]

lots of swatting mosquito's and a few "scattered showers".

I assume by that you mean the 802's are ineffective because they don't carry enough liquid?

Does fire suppression require massive loads so as to make sure some gets on the target?

Not so sure about that. A Canso hauls way more than an 802. Did they miss all the time?

[Cat Driver]

Not so sure about that. A Canso hauls way more than an 802. Did they miss all the time?

I had to think for a moment to figure out what a Canso was,but then it came to me a PBY Catalina.

When you say way more how much more did the PBY carry compared to the 802?

[North Shore]

800gal for an 802, 1000gal for the Catalina/Canso/PBY, if memory serves correct, no?

[Cat Driver]

800gal for an 802, 1000gal for the Catalina/Canso/PBY, if memory serves correct, no?

Fairly close on the Cat as long as you are using US gallons.

There were two different tanking systems in the Cat in Canada.

One installation was 900 Imperial gallons ( 1080 US gallons ) and the other one was 800 imperial gallons ( 960 US gallons. ).

[CLguy]

And don't forget to mention Cat that one system was a piece of shit while the other was a good one which was the predecessor to the CL-215/415's system.

The part that really stinks about the Alberta deal with the Conair 802's replacing the 215's is the Deputy Minister of Alberta Forests who drew up the contracts retired right after and is now working in management for Conair.

[Cat Driver]

The part that really stinks about the Alberta deal with the Conair 802's replacing the 215's is the Deputy Minister of Alberta Forests who drew up the contracts retired right after and is now working in management for Conair.

Does that surprise you?

[North Shore]

The part that really stinks about the Alberta deal with the Conair 802's replacing the 215's is the Deputy Minister of Alberta Forests who drew up the contracts retired right after and is now working in management for Conair.

...No kidding? Wow!:lol:

[Caracrane]

most of the Canso's (PBY-5A for Cat ) had 800 imp.gal. when modified in YUL in 1962.

[Cat Driver]

Caracrane it has been so many years since I have heard the name Canso used I find actually find it strange.

[CLguy]

Hey ., correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the PBY Catalina only waterbased with no landing gear and later became the PBY-5A Canso when they attached retractable landing gear to it? That's the way it was explained to me, but then that is a few years ago.

[Cat Driver]

No the PBY5 was a flying boat, then they put wheels on it and it became a PBY5A.

The Americans who built it called it a Catalina as does the rest of the world.

Canada built a slew of them under contract and named it the Canso.

Except for the name they are identical.

The reason I find it unusual to hear it called a Canso is where I fly them they are called Catalinas, so after a lot of years pass it is an out of sight out of mind thing.

[NWONT]

I could be totally wrong on this one but I think the Canadian aircraft were built by a company called Cansolidated Aircraft or something like that which was shortened to Canso.

[Cat Driver]

The PBY was made by Consolidated Vultee and the British named it the Catalina when they bought a them in 1940, the Dutch, Australians and French also operated them during WW2 as the Catalina. Canada built them under contract for the RCAF and named them the Canso. Consolidated Vultee became Convair and the type rating on your Canadian license will be CV14. ( How the fu.k a PBY 5A became a CV14 is beyond me. )

All together there were 3,300 PBY's built, the most successful flying boat ever built.

Therefore if you are flying a Canadian built PBY 5A you are flying a Canso, but most people still think it is a Catalina because that was the most common name for them.

[Flybabe]

Gosh, Cat - you sound like a Cat expert

I didn't realize the Cat hauled so little.. it's all relative, though.

[Driving Rain]

Flybaby are you flying P2V Neptunes ? I can't tell from the photo.

With the Westinghouse jets spooled up isn't the P2V the only aircraft that goes faster when both props are feathered?


P2V 2700... gallons US
187... Kts
6 ......number of doors

SP2H 2000... gallons US
195... kts
Constant Flow Doors

Theres a bargin basement sell off right now on SP2H's.
PRICE: $125,000

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Three SP2H airtankers,

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[Flybabe]

If they're ex Aero Union, they don't have the jets.

Yes DR, I fly the Neptune. One of the only airplanes out there that, when you shut down an engine, you start 2 more

[Caracrane]

wasn't Cansolidated but Consolidated. But she Canso climb at 90 ,cruise at 120 and can so do what ever you want. The 215 was better just not having the flat hull of the PBY but overall I recall my father flying down YFB-YQB with well over YYZ as an altenate. They could fly 21 hours or so. They would do fuel lift, putting the empty drums at the back, having the fuel put in one wing and back in the drums once arrived.

[Caracrane]

That is by Far one of the best machine ever built.

[SeptRepair]

Ok since we are talking Catalina's/Canso's, can someone explain how they got the name Pigboat?

[Driving Rain]

Ok since we are talking Catalina's/Canso's, can someone explain how they got the name Pigboat?

I'm not sure but here goes. They were first flown by the US Navy. All submarines were nick- named Pig Boats by sailors. PBY's hunted Pig Boats.

[North Shore]

I'm not sure either, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that Cat Driver has something to do with it!

[Caracrane]

PBY-5A Stands for Patrol Bomber Y for accepted by the USAF after being X for experimental, 5 for the serial cause there were until 6 with the extended tail and the A for amphib cause originatly they had no gear. Why Manitoba is retiring the 215 and don't question themselves more than that about the effectiveness of the 802 that can't scoop a full load while a 215 does travel for 100 miles, work 3 hours and come back.