is jetsgo shutting down

....... · Post by **.......** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:13 pm

I think God forgot to mention that since 1996 and most recently, we have seen the emergence of JETSGO, CANJET, SKYSERVICE and AIR TRANSAT.

Blastor... what the hell are you talking about...emergence of AT...

we've been around since 1987... but, hey, no where near domestic!!!

Get your facts straight buddy

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:03 pm

Lots of fightin words!!! I see a few guys in here saying they feel for the employees of JG and we should not celebrate the demise of any airline. I agree............to a point.

A few years ago, most WJ people thought they were gods and nothing could stop them. Well boys, your bubble ain't as big as it used to be and I have to say, what goes around comes around.

So for any WJ pilot to say in here that they would not celebrate the demise of an airline, is a hypocrit.

This is how much of the industry sees you guys.

Typhoon pilot · Post by **Typhoon pilot** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:06 pm

[quote="Jaques Strappe"]Lots of fightin words!!! I see a few guys in here saying they feel for the employees of JG and we should not celebrate the demise of any airline. I agree............to a point.

Do you and to what point ? Since when is the loss of ones livelyhood anything to celebrate?

A few years ago, most WJ people thought they were gods and nothing could stop them. Well boys, your bubble ain't as big as it used to be and I have to say, what goes around comes around.

You are very right in that remark. Some senior guys still have some of that complex. And some are real a##$*^@# about it. To bad for them! If the demise of the competion is the greatest thing they have to look forward too it sucks to be them.

So for any WJ pilot to say in here that they would not celebrate the demise of an airline, is a hypocrit.

No I wouldn't and yep I'm a WJ pilot. I have several friends at SG and they don't deserve the EI line any more than you. Perhaps the profit sharing would go up and maybe the stock. So. If your life revolves so much around $$$ then you have my sympathies. No I don't make alot and probably will never get rich but my sked is good and I hope the company is stable enough that the resume can stay in the file folder for a few years.

This is how much of the industry sees you guys.[/quote]

Well its the same old story a few diehard fanatics always @#$! it up for those who just want to go to work.
Interesting views though. Painting everyone with the same brush ain't that cool either. I guess some drank more kool aid than others mine came in a thimble not a 45 gal. drum.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:14 pm

Typhoon

I won't argue with you. I am not sure how long you have been with WJ but I would guess not since the beginning. I have watched WJ grow, shared buses on the way to the hotel with crews and have seen what they have to say in here. These senior guys you speak of, were always gentlemen.

I cannot speak for you individually as I do not know you. Unfortunately for you however, a few of your colleagues do display this attitude I speak of and it does tarnish all.

When AC was circling the drain the comments were at an all time high. Now that the skies at WJ are not as bright, there has been a noticeable decrease. The new target seems to be JG.

All I am saying is that, when many of us are sitting around a pub table enjoying a frosty one on a layover, if the subject of WJ comes up, it is usually a what comes around goes around sentiment.

Sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent. This is simply how many of us view WJ. Not necessarily you.

Typhoon pilot · Post by **Typhoon pilot** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:52 pm

It wasn't taken as a jab.

It was more of a personal rant at how the FEW have tarnished it for the rest. Sad life if all you have is insults and nit picking to entertain oneself.
Some guys seem happy only when taking pleasure in others discomfort.
I did like the god comment though because after all god backwards is dog.
Safe flying.

Cheers

Typhoon Pilot

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:20 am

Jacques,

I'd wager that the gentlemen you met with several years ago were in the main, ex-C3 pilots or high-time corporate guys. Not to say that WJ hasn't hired any experienced folks in the last few years but MAN, HR has picked a lot of beauties too. Certain hires simply don't make sense with what's out there to choose from, but hey, when you have HR (god don't make me say "People Dept.! ) making decisions on all kinds of criteria outside of operational ability/experience, that can happen. The things that have gone on with some of the training! Interesting that of the slightly more than 50 guys that have quit WJ since inception, about 50 of them have been...ex-C3! In other words, the single pilot group with the most experience, has been the single biggest group of leavers.

Why do I mention this? Because I think it's largely responsible for the attitude of, admittedly few, WJ'ers. Typhoon, you sound totally decent, but when I can read on a thread elsewhere some WJ guy smugly referring to JG as "the weakest link", well...everyone loves to see the proud fall.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:12 am

I just spit all over my screen.

"single pilot group with the most experience" are you kidding me? Experience with what?

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:00 am

[quote="Canus Chinookus"]I just spit all over my screen.

"single pilot group with the most experience" are you kidding me? Experience with what?[/quote

I flown with a bunch of really good ex C3 people. It's not the 'C3' types IMO, it's the C3 types with military background that don't like it. I used to work within ALPA and in the down south meetings were the same 'C3, military' type (who doesn't like WestJet) then hated C3. I am painting everyone with the same brush here so sorry if I offend someone. I also don't agree the C3'ers have the most experienced background either.

I agree with pilot hiring, we seem to hire good classes for the most part but every now and then they like to hire a 10,000 hour all VFR Twin Otter pilot and throw him in the 700 initial, maybe somebony's idea of a joke. It give the training department a pet project to say the least.

Blastor · Post by **Blastor** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:38 am

The arrogance at WJ is the root problem of WJ toubles and also its achile heel.

BTW, Jetsgo is still alive and doing well, thank you very much!

Have you read this

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 6609#46609

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:01 am

easy there CC, I'm not insured if you choke to death...

Let me expand my statement to say, the single most experienced pilot GROUP that WestJet has drawn on...every single ex-C3 pilot came with international experience on a heavy jet. The same can not be said of any other GROUP, not even Jazz who operates a mixed fleet, certainly not the multitude of King Air, Metro, Twin Otter, Beech 1900 operators, etc etc. Certainly there is a lot of experience from all sides, corporate guys, heck there's even the token ex-CX and ex-AC (to each their own), but I stand by what I said: the only other airline group that operated equipment similar or more capable than WJ, that WJ has/was able to hire from en masse, was C3. (It helped they were all unemployed.) And who has the most represented group of people who have left. Simple facts. I would also submit that in the most recent years, who WJ hires has been more due to the "internal referral" effect than their love of a particular company. ie one CMA guy gets on, one Borek, whatever, then two and so on. As WestJet says, they hire for personality, they can train you later! That may work for an ticket agent but a pilot...?

Perhaps you object to my use of the term "experience", I am referring only to the type of equipment that more closely parallels what WJ operates. Not a reference to a number in your logbook. So please, don't think it's an attack. It's actually a very cagey move by WJ, hire guys who think they've died and gone to heaven: they won't leave! Hire an ex-heavy pilot, and they could definitely leave when (or if!) the market moves upwards.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:19 pm

Ok I'm back from the hospital

by 'most experienced group' you meant in international flying on a heavy jet?

Westjet doesn't operate heavies, so that doesn't mean much to me. I could argue that the Air Canada guys, Cathay guys, First Air, the list could go on, are the most experienced. The C3 guys are no more special than anyone else, i'm sorry to say.

Not to be nitpicky, but your generalization doesn't wash with me. The C3 guys aren't Gods any more than any of us other are Gods flying an airplane.

(attempt at humor)

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:33 pm

If there are any where NEAR as many AC/CX/First Air/etc combined, as there were C3 before the 50-odd left, I would be surprised.

Semantics anyway. I never said they were gods. I'm still curious why the hugely disproportionate number of those who have left were ex-C3. But I will ask on the WestJet foum, not this one.

btw, the only ones who could mistake pilots for gods are, suprisingly, pilots...

no one else gives a rats, alas...

cheers,
CI

Pajock · Post by **Pajock** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:15 pm

Does anyone know what the difference between God and Pilots is?

God doesn't think he's a Pilot!!!

Hun IN the SUN · Post by **Hun IN the SUN** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:43 am

On the day that AC went into bankrupt protection, I saw the westjet employees all dancing together and rejoicing. Whats up with that shit. Before any of this i always wanted to see westjet to do well. But after that crap and there computer hacking fraud case, I feel very differently about that company. I wish jetsgo and canjet success. what comes around goes around, and its playin out.

Stearman · Post by **Stearman** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:59 am

I think we need this topic to probably start as a new topic, eh.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:49 am

complexintentions wrote:If there are any where NEAR as many AC/CX/First Air/etc combined, as there were C3 before the 50-odd left, I would be surprised.

Semantics anyway. I never said they were gods. I'm still curious why the hugely disproportionate number of those who have left were ex-C3. But I will ask on the WestJet foum, not this one.

btw, the only ones who could mistake pilots for gods are, suprisingly, pilots... no one else gives a rats, alas...

cheers,
CI

THe God thing was a joke, just so ya know. And you should have been more specific that you meant the largest group at westjet, not just the most experienced

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:01 am

Canus Chinookus wrote:
complexintentions wrote:If there are any where NEAR as many AC/CX/First Air/etc combined, as there were C3 before the 50-odd left, I would be surprised.

Semantics anyway. I never said they were gods. I'm still curious why the hugely disproportionate number of those who have left were ex-C3. But I will ask on the WestJet foum, not this one.

btw, the only ones who could mistake pilots for gods are, suprisingly, pilots... no one else gives a rats, alas...

cheers,
CI
THe God thing was a joke, just so ya know. And you should have been more specific that you meant the largest group at westjet, not just the most experienced

You probably offended Blastor, he's preaching the god thing lots in this thread. 'The Evil Doers' of WestJet have angered him.

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:47 am

Those wishing for the worst to come to Jetsgo should take a moment to stop and think about the ramifications of that scenario.

I don't work there and have made my opinion on their hiring practices clear. Having said, that I don't wish the angst and hardship of suddenly being without work on anyone there.

From a more selfish point of view, I don't want to see the market place in this country flooded with pilots desperate for work. Wages and working conditions are getting too close to Wal Mart for my liking and a glut of pilots isn't going to ease that pressure.

gasper · Post by **gasper** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:34 pm

WJA stock has fallen aproximately 14% in the past several weeks. From it's high of 14.37 on Feb 2/05, it closed today at $12.79.

Heard they may have some financial difficulties. Anybody else hear anything?

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:14 pm

gasper wrote:WJA stock has fallen aproximately 14% in the past several weeks. From it's high of 14.37 on Feb 2/05, it closed today at $12.79.

Heard they may have some financial difficulties. Anybody else hear anything?

I hear it may be a complete shutdown.

LVLChange · Post by **LVLChange** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:21 pm

Yes WJ700, I have heard the same thing. Aparently JG is recieving on average 50 resume's a day from WJ pilots.

Rubberbiscuit · Post by **Rubberbiscuit** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:54 am

gasper · Post by **gasper** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:51 am

Things have now gone from bad to worse. Westjet has hit a low of 12.40 during intraday trading today. I guess that confirms those rumors I've been hearing the past few days!

I feel so bad for those poor employees. I knew the overcapacity situation would probably spell the end for them. They're all such nice guys too.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:10 am

Things have now gone from bad to worse. Westjet has hit a low of 12.40 during intraday trading today. I guess that confirms those rumors I've been hearing the past few days!

Blastor? REBEL!? Is that you??

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:11 am

naw, he wouldn't have said 'nice guys', even sarcastically.