Questions you've heard 1000 times.

[Topspin]

I've posted on here several times, I'm at the point where it's time to decide, to fly for a living or not to fly for a living. 60 hrs, $10K saved, can now probably contribute another $10-12K/year, so the means are there to pursue flying as a job. I'm still young (early 20's) so it's very much doable. It's just a big decision, and I'm struggling with it. 60 hrs logged, I know I love flying more than anything else, but;
I'm the kind of person, that I think I would be just as happy flying a 172 VFR on saturday's as a hobby, as I would flying from Vancouver to Port Hardy in a B1900.

So here's my questions if anybody feels they have time;

1 - Is it worth it? All the money, time & sweat working ramp jobs. Are you satisfied with where you've ended up and what you are doing?

2 - Is it what you expected?

3 - Flying Iron, is it what the rest of the world believes? Autopilot fly's, pilot monitors fuel consumption?

4 - What would you have done differently?

5 - Is $35K a realistic estimation for school expenses?

6 - Am I a fool for thinking a 172 can be as much fun as a 738/763?



Anyone that has the time.........thanks. Anything else you think I should know, please throw it in.

[E-Flyer]

1 - Is it worth it? All the money, time & sweat working ramp jobs. Are you satisfied with where you've ended up and what you are doing?

It's worth it if you think it's worth it. Something will be important and of value to you when you have ambition and passion for what you do. Someone might say it's not worth it cause of your second point.

2 - Is it what you expected?

Luckily I had great mentors and instructors who broke down the reality of this industry early on, so yes. It's a shitty industry at first but gets better when you move along - I think that's the generally accepted "motivation" that takes people far in aviation.

3 - Flying Iron, is it what the rest of the world believes? Autopilot fly's, pilot monitors fuel consumption?

I haven't flown one, but a few of my family members have and it's not just A/P V/LNAV and then monitor. You get to read news papers No but seriously, there's more to it. When you're flying the Iron's, I've been told that you're managing it rather than flying it. Last I recall, management takes quite a lot of responsibility.

4 - What would you have done differently?

I hear a lot of airline guys saying that they would have rather "enjoyed the ride" rather than focusing on building hours and making the airlines.

5 - Is $35K a realistic estimation for school expenses?

Yes, depends on your skill level but that sounds about right.

6 - Am I a fool for thinking a 172 can be as much fun as a 738/763?

I don't think you're a fool. You can do things in a 172 you can't do in a 738/763. So what do you mean by fun? If you describe fun as a lot of hands on flying, then perhaps the management of a big jet isn't for you. If you enjoy the CRM amongst 2,3 or even 4 pilot's safely bringing a big plane with 400 passengers to it's destination, then that's another form of enjoyment which you could consider fun. Eitherway you're a pilot; I would say do what you enjoy. Try different things as you may never know what other potential interests could get you hooked. There's all kinds of flying out there.


Maybe wait a bit and listen to the guys with years of expertise, but there's my response of your questions.

Now I'm going to cook me a nice meal and watch some Top Gun

[Sulako]

1 - Is it worth it? All the money, time & sweat working ramp jobs. Are you satisfied with where you've ended up and what you are doing?

Yes, it's worth it, because I am flying airplanes (safely) for a living


2 - Is it what you expected?

There is a lot less glamor to flying airplanes than the flight colleges would have you believe. They don't talk much about cleaning the cabin after flights, or running around making sure the right kind of bottled water is on board. I fly corporate and it's pretty much how I thought it would be, but with a few unexpected things, like how much time we spend waiting at FBO's (boring) and how much time off I have (awesome)

3 - Flying Iron, is it what the rest of the world believes? Autopilot fly's, pilot monitors fuel consumption?

I fly a baby jet, so I don't really know. I do know that there is a fair amount of automation at this stage of the game, but I still get paid for things that automation can't take care of, like judgement calls to make sure we stay out of sticky situations

4 - What would you have done differently?

I wouldn't have put up with the unsafe practices at my first job. Watching one of my good friends die in a crash was one of the worst things I have experienced, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

5 - Is $35K a realistic estimation for school expenses?

I honestly don't know. Does that cover only flying fees? Is your prospective school subsidized in some way so that flying fees are cheaper? Make sure you budget a pile of money for living expenses too, as you will have to pay rent and eat and go out for the occasional beer during your schooling. Car upkeep, insurance, replacing a water pump, etc, all that can really add up.

6 - Am I a fool for thinking a 172 can be as much fun as a 738/763?

A 172 is a great machine, and I agree with you that it's howlingly fun. I guess it depends on what part of aviation really lights your grill - do you enjoy checking out how everything looks like a model railway set at 1,000' agl, or do you enjoy travelling to distant countries and checking out foreign ways of life? Do you play well with others or do you see yourself as more of a loner? Do you enjoy flying in cloud? What about flying at night? Do you enjoy the business of multiple short flights, or the calm of long-distance travel at cruising altitude? How is your health overall? Can you lift heavy things like groceries or bags of cancelled cheques? Do you clean up nicely? Are you comfortable in a uniform? How are your customer service skills? There is a niche in aviation for you no matter what, but it might be an idea to make a list of the things you enjoy most about flying, and see if they can be applied to a job, like water bombing or medevacs, or survey flying, or airline flying or whathaveyou.

Anyone that has the time.........thanks. Anything else you think I should know, please throw it in.[/quote]

A life in aviation will inevitably involve a lot of sacrifice. That's why not everyone is a pilot, even though it's such a damn cool job. Be aware that the first few years (or even most) of your career could be spent in remote areas, making very little money. Do you have a significant other? Where do you see yourself in 5 years and where does your significant other see themself? When you are starting out, you may be pressured to do flights that are borderline, or even over-the-line dangerous for a variety of reasons. Do you have the self-confidence to stand up for yourself, and even more importantly, do you know your own personal limits? Again, this job is very different from what the flight schools make it sound, and you are doing the right thing by asking questions here. Gather all the info you can, and do your best to make a decision that is right for you, and a decision that is an informed one.

Safe flights!

[Sparrow FOOF]

There is some very good advice in these posts. What do you do now? There is value in gaining life experience before you start your aviation career. If you are working a job that you don't see yourself doing forever, you are at least learning what you don't want to do until you make the jump. That can help you when times get a little tough in aviation and give you the strength to stick with it. Remember also, your career in aviation is only as good as your next medical. Have a backup plan. If it is in your heart, go for it.

You miss 100% of the shots you never take! (I saw this saying once and it has stuck with me)

Good Luck.

[Hedley]

Working as a pilot is like working as a lifeguard.

Fun when you're 18 - and a great idea, for the
skill development, and the friends, and the
memories - but a bit sad when you're looking
at 48.

Get an education, but don't waste your time
and money at school by staying there too long,
either. Stay flexible. Develop skills that create
value for other people, that you enjoy doing.

Odds are, thirty years from now, you'll be doing
a job that doesn't even exist today.

[Meatservo]

The old "computer flies the plane" misconception rubs me the wrong way. If you do decide to go ahead and become a commercial pilot, you'll find out that sitting there with your feet on the floor holding the control column and staring at the instruments is not the best use of your brain. The fact is that unless you're manoeuvring the plane for a landing or driving it around at a low altitude, manually steering it is about as much fun as steering a ship. And I find there's a lot of similarity between the world of boating and the world of flying. Would you like to scream around Howe Sound in your jet boat like Relic, or sail around the Gulf Islands seeing the sights in a pretty sailboat, or would you like to make passages to far away places? Would you like to be at the helm of a little personal watercraft, or would you like to be an officer on the bridge of a large working vessel? Those guys don't usually steer either, that job is usually handled by some deck sailor and now usually by an autopilot as well.
The "steering" isn't the fun part. I'd imagine you'll find that out someday no matter what plane you end up in.

I've enjoyed being a pilot. You have to develop the ability to make unpopular decisions, and even sometimes function through panic. You have to be able to make a tough call and then defend it, and deal with people who seem to be trying really hard to show you that they don't think your job is very difficult or honourable. These people are usually trying to make you feel this way in order to make themselves feel better about their boring lives or in order to pay you less than you deserve. Your wife may not want to live where you want to live, or with you, after a while.

Still, the view is great, if you don't like the people where you're at, (including your wife), don't worry because you'll be somewhere else real soon. You'll see things you never thought you would see. You'll gain some insights on life, the universe and everything that don't occur to most people. The world really does look like a train set from 1000'agl. It also looks pretty neat from 37 000'. You'll experience frustration, anger, fear, happiness, awe, boredom and panic to a much sharper degree than most people. These things make beer taste better.

"Get an education, but don't waste your time
and money at school by staying there too long,
either. Stay flexible. Develop skills that create
value for other people, that you enjoy doing."

What Hedley said. Make up your mind soon though. The sooner you start the better you'll do.

[magyar]

my two cents,
Think of it like this, Once something becomes "work" question what you are doing.

Don't let Politics, high ego's...etc ruin your passion for flight.
Flying will ALWAYS be one of the coolest things ever, mabe just as cool or cooler than girls(no i'm not gay),

I payed about $50000 after CPL/MIFR/Diploma/Rent/Food....

NO you are not a fool for thinkg 172's are as much fun! Some of the best times i've had was in a 172. No Cargo to load...

[just curious]

1 - Is it worth it? All the money, time & sweat working ramp jobs. Are you satisfied with where you've ended up and what you are doing?
More than ever
2 - Is it what you expected?
NO, but sex marriage and car ownership weren't either. Except for the car, all better.
3 - Flying Iron, is it what the rest of the world believes? Autopilot fly's, pilot monitors fuel consumption?
Mine's aluminum, and slow, but it's had me all over the world. Very rarely robot driven, and we monitor a zillion things we never thought about at the private /commercial level. When the weather/airport/airplane is causing a delay, I can walk over to the small crowd of pax and tell them why, without tears or screaming.
4 - What would you have done differently?
Started earlier, dumped the ramp rat job and university to have my senior commercial at 19, and my ATR at 21, instead of 4 years later.
5 - Is $35K a realistic estimation for school expenses?
I paid 15 bucks an hour for a citabria when I first started, and university was 660 a year with a 100 buck of books. Wouldn't even know how to answer that for you. If you want it, it costs what it costs. A wedding license costs about thirty-five bucks plus GST. Try getting married for that exact price.
6 - Am I a fool for thinking a 172 can be as much fun as a 738/763?
Times get tough and 767's get put up for sale. If your on a 732, you are probably intimately familiar with the MEL. On a 172, you probably know everyone concerned with the operation on a first-name basis. Try parking a 737 in YWG for an extra half hour to chat with a buddy you haven't seen in years. Or put said buddy up in the jumpseat, since he isn't a company employee, even though he has a ramp pass and 2000 hours flying with you. Every airplane can be and is fun. YYJ was a piece of junk when I first flew it, and probably isn't any better 25 years ago, but as my first twin, it was a pretty cool navajo.

[flying4dollars]

1 - Is it worth it? All the money, time & sweat working ramp jobs. Are you satisfied with where you've ended up and what you are doing?

This is dependent on YOU. For me, yes, it was fully worth it and it will always be worth it. After a lot of disappointment and heartbreak, I'm very satisfied with where I've ended up and what I'm doing.

2 - Is it what you expected?

No it was not what I expected. It never is, never will be. You will realize this once you're there. Hearing others tell you stories isn't enough for you to grasp it IMO. This usually is the cause of many people leave aviation, because it simply wasn't what they expected, so be weary of that.

3 - Flying Iron, is it what the rest of the world believes? Autopilot fly's, pilot monitors fuel consumption?

Depends. The more your progress, the easier the job gets. Going from a Navajo in the Bush to a 737 Calgary to Vancouver is all about the advancement of technology and automation. Yes they monitor fuel, they monitor weather, and other parameters. I'm sure long haul flights get pretty tedious. Hell even flying a 1900 from Vancouver to Edmonton can be droning, even without an autopilot. For me, the take-off and landing make the boring cruise worth it. Not to mention the stories you'll share with your captain/co-pilot

4 - What would you have done differently?

I would have gone north from the start. I wasted over a year of half ass applying for jobs in the big city before kicking my own ass and sending myself north. The decision is reaping the benefits.

5 - Is $35K a realistic estimation for school expenses?

If you mean college+flying, no, budget for $60K. Flying alone, yes $35k is realistic

6 - Am I a fool for thinking a 172 can be as much fun as a 738/763?

Subjective. I had a lot of fun in the 172, but I have even more of a hoot in the 1900. Some people prefer rec flying in RV-6's and Mooneys to commercial machines and vice versa. You will have to wait until you are in a 737 or 767 or w/e to really answer that question for yourself.

Anyone that has the time.........thanks. Anything else you think I should know, please throw it in.

One thing you really have to remember is that everyone's experiences are all subjective. Nobody on here can tell you how you will find the experience. That is something you have to discover on your own. This is also what makes it fun and challenging. I have many friends who have given up flying to work jobs that bring home twice and even 3 times as much bacon as they did flying, which is great for them. Not for me. I love what I do so much that I couldn't picture myself without the job. Not necessarily a good thing. I'm one of those people that still feels like a big kid when he jumps in the seat and straps in, and enjoys wearing the uniform as much today as when I've wanted to since I was a boy. I see flying a lot differently than a lot of my friends. I get told many times how I'll eventually realize that "its just another job" and "just another airplane". Nope and nope, have yet to feel the same way and I hope I never do. I hope I never lose the passion that I originally found for this career when I was 4. Say what you will, but I keep a very important photo in my room and locker to remind myself of that.

Remember, to each their own. Your experience, should you go through with it, may not be the same as mine or anyone elses on here. In either case, good luck!!

[hairdo]

1. If you love flying and don't mind making the sacrifices that come with aviation, then it's totally worth it. But that is a very individual matter. I know a lot of people who would have said I was stupid for getting up a 0500 to go fly before the Sun's even up. But then, they didn't get to see the totally awesome sunrise that I saw today.

2. In some ways yes, and others no. But in the end, I don't care, I still have fun every time I go flying.

3. I don't know. Haven't done it, but I'm sure there's lots of great things that come with it too.

4. So far, nothing... except maybe I'd like to do some float flying, but w/e, there's lots of time yet.

5. That depends on where you train (and what kind of training), and if you factor in all the other costs.

6. Absolutely not! It's not like you get to spin a 738/763 when you want (unless you have a death wish). I've had tonnes (yes metric they're slowly getting to us!) of fun flying around in light aircraft. And it's not like you fly your 172 across the Atlantic every day either. Different planes, different fun, but still fun.

All of this is completely individual. What you want out of flying, what you really enjoy, and what you are willing to sacrifice to get that is all up to you. If you want to fly a 172 as a hobby, that's great! Just make the decision as to what you are going to be the happiest with in 30 years (I know, not easy. But what you truly have a passion for). I worked a desk job for about 4 months while doing my training, and I HATED it! I was more happy to see 1700 on the clock than the pay check. So for me, I don't think I could do anything else and be happy. Just do what you're content to do for the next 30-40 years of your life.

[Topspin]

Thanks much for all the great responses folks.

[FamilyGuy]

Just to be devils advocate.

How do you make a million dollars in aviation?

Start with 20 million.....

On becoming a professional pilot...

a slow means of starvation.

But to slip the surley bonds of Earth and touch the face of god ..to actually get paid to do it

While I personally gave up a touch too early and chose other more stable ($$$) paths, I still beleive it is hands down the coolest way to earn even a meager living while spending the little time we get on this rock, except for maybe astronauts...but that's out of most leagues anyway.

I caution against doing "it" for the perceived payoff at the end $$$. I've been dirt poor when I was young (flying oddly enough) and, at times, pretty well off as I grew older. My fondest memories were the early years. Oddly, the more you earn the more you spend and the more $$$ you need...life gets complicated fast. I recall with great fondness driving my POS half ton out to the hanger to hang with other poor pilots - enjoy a six pack and talk bull. Now it's just not the same, but maybe that is life and not really related to the profession of choice.


We all only get one crack at life (Except Buddists). Make it a good one and choose what you'll enjoy and enjoy whatever you choose.

(BTW a 172 is a pig. Try any small Piper and you'll never go back )

[dashx]

Hedley....

Kind of depressing ...

Perhaps this might help:

http://www.popmatters.com/film/reviews/ ... -dvd.shtml

Sam Elliott.........

Stayed true to the end.......

[Topspin]

(BTW a 172 is a pig. Try any small Piper and you'll never go back )

I've flown this turbocharged citabria, most fun I've ever had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOMPlS6w628

I wonder who they sold it to.

[E-Flyer]

Working as a pilot is like working as a lifeguard.

Fun when you're 18 - and a great idea, for the
skill development, and the friends, and the
memories - but a bit sad when you're looking
at 48.

Get an education, but don't waste your time
and money at school by staying there too long,
either. Stay flexible. Develop skills that create
value for other people, that you enjoy doing.

Odds are, thirty years from now, you'll be doing
a job that doesn't even exist today.

Such as controlling a big jet from the ground.