Getting Paid

[BLZD1]

When do you guys start getting paid? Is at main cabin door closed and park brake off or at takeoff power?

[tonysoprano]

Thrust set, $$$.

[BLZD1]

So they do not get paid while the aircraft is getting deiced or long taxi delays. That means they must put in at least 95 - 100 FLT time to break the 85 hour mark for time and a half pay. Wow!!!

[jjj]

Happy new year.

Regarding getting paid.

Flight time starts as the a/c begins to move under it's own power - Doors closed/Parking Brake released/55% n2(don't quote me on that last one).

True we are not getting paid our hourly rate when we push back and do an engines off de-ice. We are getting paid when we are in the line ups for the CDFs and we are getting paid when we are delayed on the taxi in or out.

Not getting the hourly rate during engines off de-ice is off set by our generous block times and other situations. For example: if a 4 day 20 hour credit pairing is flown in 19 hours actual flight time as it is commonly understood - we would still get paid the higher amount of hours. When delayed and have 24 minute taxis or my 1 and 15 minute delay the other day in YUL waiting for a gate- we get paid the higher amount again.

All in all, we always fly less then we are paid for even if you count in the odd time we do a deice with engines off or an air start at the gate. Even if your flight gets cancelled - you still get paid the credit hours.

BLZD1 - your math is way off because the places we do engines off de-ice are few and far between - YYC and YQB come to mind. We are also on the clock for long taxi delays. I certainly assure you that when a WS pilot is flying 95-100 hours as you commonly calculate flight time - s/he is making a ton of OT.

Also consider this theoretical scenario - imagine a crew deadheading around all month doing rescue flights and IROPS. This crew would have worked 15 days in a month - done a bunch of deadheading - but only flown 60 hours. These guys would still get paid for 80 hours of work. In this sense - we do but do not have a credit system for deadheading.

Some things on the board for the next contract - flight time triggers that are in line with industry standard and OT for anything above 80 hours - fingers crossed.

[Embraer190]

Happy new year.

Regarding getting paid.

Flight time starts as the a/c begins to move under it's own power - Doors closed/Parking Brake released/55% n2(don't quote me on that last one).

True we are not getting paid our hourly rate when we push back and do an engines off de-ice. We are getting paid when we are in the line ups for the CDFs and we are getting paid when we are delayed on the taxi in or out.

Not getting the hourly rate during engines off de-ice is off set by our generous block times and other situations. For example: if a 4 day 20 hour credit pairing is flown in 19 hours actual flight time as it is commonly understood - we would still get paid the higher amount of hours. When delayed and have 24 minute taxis or my 1 and 15 minute delay the other day in YUL waiting for a gate- we get paid the higher amount again.

All in all, we always fly less then we are paid for even if you count in the odd time we do a deice with engines off or an air start at the gate. Even if your flight gets cancelled - you still get paid the credit hours.

BLZD1 - your math is way off because the places we do engines off de-ice are few and far between - YYC and YQB come to mind. We are also on the clock for long taxi delays. I certainly assure you that when a WS pilot is flying 95-100 hours as you commonly calculate flight time - s/he is making a ton of OT.

Also consider this theoretical scenario - imagine a crew deadheading around all month doing rescue flights and IROPS. This crew would have worked 15 days in a month - done a bunch of deadheading - but only flown 60 hours. These guys would still get paid for 80 hours of work. In this sense - we do but do not have a credit system for deadheading.

Some things on the board for the next contract - flight time triggers that are in line with industry standard and OT for anything above 80 hours - fingers crossed.

Sounds like an excellent system and is definitely a good way for the company to show the pilots what they are worth to them by paying more.

[BLZD1]

Cool, I understand now!

Thanks

[tonysoprano]

Doors closed/Parking Brake released/55% n2(don't quote me on that last one).

The 55% power would be a biggy I think. IF that is true and mind you I am not a 737 expert, but when else other than takeoff would you see 55% on the ground? Is that easily achieved just by taxiing? Also, how does the company use a power setting to calculate pay? Holy sht, that's alot of questions.

[daveg]

55% N2 is easily reached during engine start. Definitely not a problem on the taxi.

[Four1oh]

it's an N1 trigger, and i think it's between 30-40% on the taxi. It's been changed I think, and used to also include 10kts taxi speed. But as jjj said, it's not really an issue as far as I can see as we are still getting paid.

What bugs me about the all-month deadheading scenario is that, as a koolaid drinking culty owner, it's a waste of crew, so in that case, we should be striving for as little deadheading as possible. Obviously we can't do that with a YYC-only base, as it's shown with how much money we save with the ports. We overnight just as often, we have just as many multi-day pairings, but the reduction in deadheading alone is saving us a fortune in costs.

[tonysoprano]

N1 trigger,ok. 30-40% still sounds high though. Must be just to get the a/c moving? I would think the port system cuts down on dh quite a bit.

[Four1oh]

Less deadheading also means more seats available to sell at that premium fare price...

[tonysoprano]

riiiight.

[CAL]

off blocks....on blocks....thank god....and I have the pen:) and we have no acars which has its pros and cons...

[Four1oh]

riiiight.

Because I'm a greedy capitalist, and that adds to our bottom line, hence, profit sharing and more available teal koolaid. See Tony, it's a totally different way of thinking, isn't it?

[tonysoprano]

Because I'm a greedy capitalist, and that adds to our bottom line, hence, profit sharing and more available teal koolaid. See Tony, it's a totally different way of thinking, isn't it?

Lol,See, that's it, that whole fruit comparison thing I've been trying to explain for years? It's not as bad as you make it. To each his own. In comparison, I don't have to be a greedy capitalist. I've been telling you that very same thing for a long time.

[Four1oh]

so what are you then? You don't work for the government anymore, so shouldn't you maybe start thinking along those lines

[tonysoprano]

I'm an employee. That's it that's all. I get paid for doing my job. That's as far as it goes!

[Four1oh]

Well then, I guess my job description is a little more elaborate than you...

[ivanhoe]

I'm an employee. That's it that's all. I get paid for doing my job. That's as far as it goes!

TS

That brief statement says it all , not that I'm blaming you for it. The management at AC has bred a "they don't listen to me , so why should I care , why should I do anything extra" culture. It is so obvious to those outside AC that the workforce does'nt give a damn anymore. All you had to do is read a newspaper , watch TV or listen to the radio last week to confirm this. Granted , the media laid it on thick and was over the top but one must admit that there is a big problem.

As far as when the clock starts , it is no biggy with me. I am compensated well enough that a few minutes here or there is nothing to get twisted about.

[yycflyguy]

Thrust set, $$$.

???

I was certain that all aircraft were the same for triggering the $$$ at AC... or were you commenting on Westjet start time? On both the mighty Embraer and the Baby Bus money time starts with cargo doors closed, pax door closed and brakes off. Maybe at the lower salary range I am just a little more eager to get that extra 2 minutes.

[Machiavelli]

Is that also why you taxi at 9kts?

[Flying Nutcracker]

Get paid 80 hours a month. If it takes less than 80, still paid 80. If it takes more than 85, get paid MORE!

The day I start doing my job differently because of a money trigger, I'm in some serious financial trouble!!!

[yycflyguy]

Is that also why you taxi at 9kts?

That's just for safety

[Billybobit]

...and the fact that you never seem to have your numbers and everyone else gets to taxi a turtle speeds behind you!!!

[tonysoprano]

Thrust set, $$$.

???

I was certain that all aircraft were the same for triggering the $$$ at AC... or were you commenting on Westjet start time? On both the mighty Embraer and the Baby Bus money time starts with cargo doors closed, pax door closed and brakes off. Maybe at the lower salary range I am just a little more eager to get that extra 2 minutes.

I was commenting on the WJ time. I had read on a another forum that recently management had changed this (quietly?) to be t/o thrust and 19kts. I have since learned that was inacurate. You're right, for us it's door closed, brakes off.