U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

[Pratt X 3]

Jeffrey said he sent a text message to his wife about a "scary, scary noise on the plane. Doesn't sound right. They're flying back to LaGuardia to check it out. I'll call you when we land. I love you."

The real reason the Airbus ended up in the Hudson. Dude's unauthorized use of an electronic device airborne destroyed the bird strike protection program in the computer controlled A320. Then, 2 days later, when the crew needed the BCAS (Bird Collision Avoidance System) the most, it wasn't available because Mister First Class needed to reaffirm his love for his wife. I hope they charge him for endangering the aircraft and wildlife.

[crazy_aviator]

NO, According to inside reports, the pilot could be easily heard saying "Shucks, I forgot the BCAS Switch !!

[Morav]

I wonder how an A380 fuselage would hold up to a ditching.

[FamilyGuy]

Cat sorta my thought - how can one compare the YYB incident to this one? or any incident...until all the facts are actually known. FTR I won't express an opinion on either - only want to discuss the public or aviation reaction. No flaming pls - just think about this.

The US airways crew may indeed be heros (everyone walked away) - OR they may have pooched it (hull lose but no more). We have opinons on that of course, and being the aviation savy folks we are - they are educated opinions - but opinions nonetheless.

The YYB crew may have pooched it (hull damage) OR they may be heros (everyone walked away). Again we have opinions, some educated, but really - not alot of fact.

It could just be that there was very rare sequence of events in YYB, which once considered, will tell us they exemplify our idea of a pilots pilot - like Scully. Like said in about a year we will know. (doubtful but possible)

In the US Airways incident, the media quickly proclaimed him a hero (as did many here) looong before the FDR data was out.

In both cases, so far there isn't much fact but there sure as hell is a huge difference in opinion yet either could actually go the other way once the investigation is over.

So is this just a media thing - but we aren't that guilable. Or is it a Canuck thing?

Maybe the YYB incident isn't a good comparison. How about the Big Red Rocky Mountain upset at altitude? Pretty sure we didn't proclaim them heros. Or Transat in the Azores - initially heros in Canadian media...for what? about 2 seconds? Then his "past" was front and center and speculation rife they pooched it by not monitoring the fuel status (afterall he has a "past"). Actually if I recall correctly we really didn't proclaim the Gimli Glider pilots hero's initially either, or not for long. I recall alot of debate about how the Capt could make the fuel conversion error in the first place - until the final investigation revealed it really wasn't the flight crews fault. (reflecting I also recall some saying they should have known to land on the inner runway as it was used by Gliders - which should have been known by the co-pilot cause he flew Gliders there or similar)

Maybe the US inauguration today sums it up. The Yanks are quick to assume greatness in their people, even celebrate it on spec - Canadians want it proven - conclusively - until then we are so very doubtful.

If that's it, which is better?

[Doc]

AT's accident in the Azores was an amazing landing regardless of the reason it was required. the USAir landing is as well. the JZA accident in CYYB doesn't look like an amazing landing.

Ah, a true master of the "understatement" at work!!

But, why would anybody even bring this up? The Jazz thing was not an accident, but an incident. Nobody is talking, which to anybody other than the circled wagon gang, reeks of screw up.
With the US Air water landing, the NTSB has already determined that both engines were not operating on impact. This looks like an amazing piece of piloting!
Why the "sour grapes"? The guy did an amazing job. But, why can't we just admit it?? I sure can.

[Doc]

It could just be that there was very rare sequence of events in YYB, which once considered, will tell us they exemplify our idea of a pilots pilot

You don't think, if this were even the remotest of possibilities, somebody, somewhere, would have said something, to somebody?

I'm thinking it rates right up there with the "very rare sequence of events" that would permit pigs to fly.

Wonder what the TSB guys will find.....probably what their boss tells them to find...

[Sheila]

The US Airways landing was great news. It was about heroism and joy.

I can't believe the passengers are going to get 5000 dollars for lost luggage, omg.

So is it pretty steep to land a plane with two engines gone? Yes, that's why the pilot had to adjust the plane in such a way, using technical aids, to glide the plane into the river. He's lucky his speed wasn't faster. It's better both engines were gone then.

[Cat Driver]

It could just be that there was very rare sequence of events in YYB, which once considered, will tell us they exemplify our idea of a pilots pilot

Doc, I think that was written tongue in cheek.

But if the investigation ( assuming one is ever done. ) finds that something went drastically wrong with the airplane and these guys wrestled the thing to the ground and only ran off the end of the runway thus saving all on board I'll be the first to congratulate them.

I have been trying to come up with a situation that would explain that event and finally think I found one.

There could have been a momentary pole shift that stopped the normal rotational direction and speed of the planet as they were on final. That would account for the runway not being where it should have been.

[Doc]

So is it pretty steep to land a plane with two engines gone? Yes, that's why the pilot had to adjust the plane in such a way, using technical aids, to glide the plane into the river. He's lucky his speed wasn't faster. It's better both engines were gone then.

As always, entertaining.

[FamilyGuy]

Ya okay the YYB example isn't all that good.

But I found the reaction to be so stark that it was worth mentioning. Point still stands though that they could (cough) find a valid reason for YYB...right? No matter how unlikely in our collective educated opinions - it is a possibility. (reminds me of dumb and dumber quote..."so you're saying there is a chance")

It just seems to me that the Yanks will seize upon any hint of a job well done and capatilize on it. Canadians it seems to me, seize upon the doubt and almost automatically think someone fucked up (if it's one of our own anyway).

Is that fair or is that just me? Or is perhaps the US air not a good example the other way - it is so obvious a hero scenario as to reject all questions outright?

Seriously think about it.

[FamilyGuy]

Doc I couldn't agree more which is kinda the point. Why are we in this instance so quick to heap praise when it is possible that an investigation may find something we don't praise (however remote that may be - granted).

[Cat Driver]

Seriously think about it.

You are right FamilyGuy, the Americans worship hero's no doubt about it.

In a way it is a nice trait.

[Cat Driver]

Sheila honey, you need to come out here and let Cat educate you about how airplanes fly and maybe a few other things.

[FamilyGuy]

Who was the last true coast to coast televised Canadian Hero that we respected? That we pointed out to our kids as someone who's values and courage to aspire to?

I'm thinking Terry Fox but maybe I'm just getting old.....In aviation we gave some praise to Marc Garneau...after that....help me out boys!

A quick google search gave this up:

http://www.canada-heros.com/

Not bad but most the pics are in black and white or pen and ink!!!!

[Brown Bear]

Ya okay the YYB example isn't all that good.

But I found the reaction to be so stark that it was worth mentioning. Point still stands though that they could (cough) find a valid reason for YYB...right? No matter how unlikely in our collective educated opinions - it is a possibility. (reminds me of dumb and dumber quote..."so you're saying there is a chance")

It just seems to me that the Yanks will seize upon any hint of a job well done and capatilize on it. Canadians it seems to me, seize upon the doubt and almost automatically think someone fucked up (if it's one of our own anyway).

Is that fair or is that just me? Or is perhaps the US air not a good example the other way - it is so obvious a hero scenario as to reject all questions outright?

Seriously think about it.

If Jazz had dead sticked it on the TCH due to a double engine failure, I think you'd see a pretty bloody positive reaction!
I don't think you get it.

[HS-748 2A]

These birds seem to have bandages on their heads. I expect they may have been wounded by FLT 1549. Lucky they weren't ingested.

[crazy_aviator]

America s armchair patriotism and leader/hero worship has gotten itself into a BIG mess ! Good luck to Obama in "fixing" it ..its like tying a persons feet together and throwing him in a hungry lions den !! Worshipping "Commander-of-everything Bush didnt do America well !!

[flyincanuck]

Maybe this wasn't the wisest paint scheme after all ?

[flyincanuck]

hmmm....well here's the link:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Canadian ... 0156296/M/

[Mitch Cronin]

hmmm....

"This photo is copyright protected and may not be used in any way without proper permission"

[FamilyGuy]

If Jazz had dead sticked it on the TCH due to a double engine failure, I think you'd see a pretty bloody positive reaction!
I don't think you get it.

I can't predict the future but I can quote the past:

1983's ACA143 - Gimli Glider: "After the landing, the pilot and co-pilot were praised for their quick thinking, but months later, Air Canada disciplined them for allowing the near-tragedy to happen. The pilot was demoted for six months, the co-pilot was suspended for two weeks and three ground workers were also suspended.

A 1985 Transport Canada report blamed the incident on errors and insufficient training and safety procedures."


2001 TSC304: New York Post 2001 "The first reports were of a doomed flight salvaged at the last moment by quick thinking and heroism. But by now, the story of how a Canadian jet crossing the Atlantic survived disaster has changed into a tangle of missteps. ... When he returned to Montreal, Captain Piche did not talk publicly about exactly what he had done when the first engine failed, or whether his sophisticated instruments were telling him the whole story.

But, answering a reporter's question about heroics, he said somewhat enigmatically: ''I don't consider myself a hero, sir. I could have done without this.''

In Canada I think the last line sums it up regardless of outcome.


BTW today they found the other engine. Report says it looks like it suffered a bird strike. Pilot still hailed a hero.

[grimey]

Who was the last true coast to coast televised Canadian Hero that we respected? That we pointed out to our kids as someone who's values and courage to aspire to?

I'm thinking Terry Fox but maybe I'm just getting old.....In aviation we gave some praise to Marc Garneau...after that....help me out boys!

Rick Hansen and Chris Hatfield come to mind. Romeo Dallaire probably should be, IMO.

[FamilyGuy]

Who was the last true coast to coast televised Canadian Hero that we respected? That we pointed out to our kids as someone who's values and courage to aspire to?

I'm thinking Terry Fox but maybe I'm just getting old.....In aviation we gave some praise to Marc Garneau...after that....help me out boys!

Rick Hansen and Chris Hatfield come to mind. Romeo Dallaire probably should be, IMO.

Yup Rick Hansen for sure.

It's funny about Chris Hatfield though. Like Marc Garneaua and Roberta Bodnar, Canadian Astronauts are actual celebrated captial H Cdn "Heros". Oddly in the US, while astronauts may be theoretical lower case "heros" they are rarely "celebrated" on a national scale - not like Scully anyway. I watched the last Shuttle launch and hell if I know any crewmembers name. Granted I could name the pioneers, but now in the US astronauts are more or less just doing a job.

Can anyone name the Challenger Captain...or just the school teacher? (w/o looking it up of course). Columbia???

[Braun]

Who was the last true coast to coast televised Canadian Hero that we respected? That we pointed out to our kids as someone who's values and courage to aspire to?

I'm thinking Terry Fox but maybe I'm just getting old.....In aviation we gave some praise to Marc Garneau...after that....help me out boys!

Rick Hansen and Chris Hatfield come to mind. Romeo Dallaire probably should be, IMO.

Yeah Dallaire for sure. Don't hear about him very often, most likely because the gov't doesn't want to talk about how bad they messed up over there.

[FamilyGuy]

Ya Dallaire for sure. Pretty sad that I had to look that one up - only to vaguley recall it once read. Really sad once you read what he did.

Pretty sad that the Yanks recognized his actions 6 fuckin years before his home country did:

In 1996, Dallaire was made an Officer of the Legion of Merit of the United States, the highest military decoration available for award to foreigners, for his service in Rwanda. Dallaire was also awarded the inaugural Aegis Trust Award in 2002, and on October 10 of the same year, he was inducted as an Officer in the Order of Canada.

Canada doesn't celebrate it's greatness, it fucking mourns it.