U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

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grimey
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by grimey »

FamilyGuy wrote:
grimey wrote:
FamilyGuy wrote:Who was the last true coast to coast televised Canadian Hero that we respected? That we pointed out to our kids as someone who's values and courage to aspire to?

I'm thinking Terry Fox but maybe I'm just getting old.....In aviation we gave some praise to Marc Garneau...after that....help me out boys!
Rick Hansen and Chris Hatfield come to mind. Romeo Dallaire probably should be, IMO.
Yup Rick Hansen for sure.

It's funny about Chris Hatfield though. Like Marc Garneaua and Roberta Bodnar, Canadian Astronauts are actual celebrated captial H Cdn "Heros". Oddly in the US, while astronauts may be theoretical lower case "heros" they are rarely "celebrated" on a national scale - not like Scully anyway. I watched the last Shuttle launch and hell if I know any crewmembers name. Granted I could name the pioneers, but now in the US astronauts are more or less just doing a job.

Can anyone name the Challenger Captain...or just the school teacher? (w/o looking it up of course). Columbia???
Christa MacCauliff was the school teacher (though I probably spelt her name wrong). I only remember because she had the same birthday as me. Onizuka was one of the payload specialists, IIRC. Couldn't name any of the others. Ramon was the Israeli crewmember on Columbia.

Edwards AFB is named after Glen Edwards, a Canadian (with dual American-Canadian citizenship) who joined the US Air Force and died while serving as a test pilot of an early flying wing bomber.
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FamilyGuy
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by FamilyGuy »

Look em up but don't post it.

As soon as I did I went DOH - I knew that...especially after watching SuperBad - the movie (hint hint). The other pilot names were familiar as well...heard them enough on the tele.
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crazy_aviator
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by crazy_aviator »

Hmm, looks like thread creep has finished the original subject ! Speaking of hero, The captain himself said that he was just doing his job . According to information so far, he had 3 options , 1) Land at an airport ( And this was only a possibility) or 2) land on the river and 3) panic and take a fit in the cockpit and crash into New York and all die ! He ultimately took option #2 . Option 2 called for 2 things, line up and descend onto a body of water long and straight and clear enough and touch down at the right attitude and minimal speed. According to information , the APU and the RAT were operating, Control was normal and instrumentation functioning ,,,SO, line the plane up, descend at best glide, call the cabin to brace, seal the hull, get the high lift devices out (if possible given the workload) and touch down at the best attitude and minimum speed ! Guess what ? You and me do that every landing and some of us do that without engine power!!! They were doing their jobs , they didnt screw up and they problably ??? made the best choice of landing spot . If 1 or 155 persons died,,,most people would be pointing fingers and the sims would be working overtime to try to prove that the pilot could have used a runway !!
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by crazy_aviator »

On every plane i ride, im hoping that the pilot is just doing his/her job WELL,,,instead of poor/fair pilots up front with the occasional HERO !!
( For this industries sake, I hope the investigation will conclude that the only option was a water landing and there was no way to recover engine power!)
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GForce
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by GForce »

FYI, Capt. "Sully" and his crew will be doing an interview on 60 Minutes, Feb. 8. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtra ... -jilt.html
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Embraer190
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Embraer190 »

Here's a video of the Captain talking to a crowd of people in his hometown.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ca/Video/Play ... 471f22b72f
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by rum-runner »

It seems like the "powers to be" are taking their sweet time in announcing what caused this event.
I think if it was the double goose theory that they would be splashing it all over the media.
I am thinking that there is something more to this event.

Just my 2 senses
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Cat Driver »

I am thinking that there is something more to this event.
Such as?
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by rum-runner »

Cat Driver wrote:
I am thinking that there is something more to this event.
Such as?
An uncommanded, not related to foreign matter, shut down of both engines sequentially.
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crazy_aviator
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by crazy_aviator »

As a side note , On Pprune, there is talk of the Fadacs commanding a rollback to lower thrust levels than what would happen on an older hydromechanical FCU equipped 737 engine
Also, where is the damage on the fan blades? Can there be massive damage on the compressor and turbine blades Without fan blade damage ? RH engine , bird strike, LH engine ??
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Widow »

Ditched A320 crew had full hydraulics and electrical systems
By John Croft

Sources close to the investigation of the US Airways Flight 1549 ditching say the Airbus A320's left engine continued to run at about 35% fan speed (N1) during the 3min window between striking birds at 3,200ft (975m) and setting down on the Hudson river.

All 150 passengers and five crew safely disembarked from the Charlotte-bound aircraft in the river, aided by nearby ferry boat crews in a spectacle that captured global interest and fuelled renewed respect for airline training and professionalism.

Although limited, the left engine's speed would have been adequate to keep the aircraft's generators and hydraulic systems online, providing "normal" flight control laws, communications and intercom, and the ability to deploy flaps and slats, elements that proved critical to performing a low-speed water landing. To maintain altitude on a single engine, experts say the powerplant would have had to have been running at 70% N1 or more.

Investigators planned to retrieve the left engine, which broke from the aircraft during the ditching, from the river bottom on Friday or Saturday to perform an inspection. Flight International has learned that the aircraft touched down at 125-130kt (220-240km/h) air speed with flaps and slats both in the "2" position, or midpoint, position. An A320 normally lands at 120-125kt with fully deployed flaps and slats.

The right engine, which remained attached to the aircraft after ditching, was apparently operating at only 15% fan speed, according to sources. Investigators afterward determined that the engine had received "soft body impact damage" to its first-stage fan blades. In addition three variable guide vanes were fractured and two were missing. The engine's electronic control unit was missing and "numerous" internal components were "significantly" damaged, says the National Transportation Safety Board.

The NTSB says the "organic material" that was found in the right engine and on the wings and fuselage after the aircraft was lifted onto a barge will be identified through DNA analysis, and a feather found attached to the flap track on the wing has been sent to the Smithsonian Institution for identification.

The NTSB has also confirmed that the A320's Hamilton Sundstrand-built ram air turbine (RAT) had deployed from its compartment near the root of the left wing during the event. Although it will deploy automatically when engine or electric power drops below a threshold, pilots can also manually deploy the RAT as well. The device provides power to one of three hydraulic systems on board, which would have given pilots the ability to deploy slats, but most likely not flaps.

Sources have told Flight International that the first officer had tried to relight the left engine during the descent, which averaged 1,000ft/min (5.08m/s), but that the engine continued to rotate at 35% N1.

Pilots review ditching procedures from manuals but do not practise the events in simulators as there are no test-verified models available. Pilots do, however, practise double engine-out scenarios with a relight afterward. NTSB has completed its interviews of the pilots, flight attendants and air traffic controllers and was working to wrap up its fact finding with passengers and a crew that two days earlier experienced a compressor stall on the accident aircraft. That event does not appear to be related to the 15 January accident.

Although US Airways provides all seats in its pre-America West merger A320s with life vests, which includes the accident aircraft, a former A320 captain has told Flight International there would not have been time to fly, assess the aircraft's condition, decide on a course of action and then fully brief the passengers.

Pilots also did not activate the A320's "ditch" button, which automatically closes a number of vent apertures, a preparation that the former A320 captain says is about three pages into the ditching checklist. "Some of the flight attendants didn't even know they were going into the water," he says of the 3min timeframe during the descent. "There was not enough time for any of it."
FlightGlobal.com
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by flyinthebug »

Wow. Very informative post widow thanks! "soft body impact damage" answers many questions on the right fan.. I`ll be anxious to hear more about their findings in the left one.
They did an amazing job with such a short time to react and be decisive.

I see they also make mention of the F/O trying to "relight" the left fan after losing the right to obvious bird strikes. That would suggest that they will find similiar damage on the left fan with soft body impact damage.

Its truly an amazing coincidence if proven.. but it is looking like a flock of geese were the cause.

Cheers
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by C-GGGQ »

http://www.addictinggames.com/heroonthehudson.html

and there is alread a flash game of it
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by swordfish »

Good one, widow. Thanks. That should put an end to all the bullshit pontificating and hypothesizing that has been going on here for the past couple of weeks.
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yycflyguy
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by yycflyguy »

I think everyone should be thanking John Croft for finally presenting a concise, accurate report on the accident. Refreshing to see in the media.
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by kingeddie »

Its back more to follow
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by kingeddie »

More 2
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

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More3
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flyinthebug
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by flyinthebug »

Great shots king! A picture is worth 1000 words.

yycflyguy.. I couldnt agree with you more! Kudos to the media on that story/report.

Fly safe all.
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Pratt »

Nose cone looks pretty beaten up, wonder if that was birds or something later down the road.
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yycflyguy
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by yycflyguy »

Nose cone is really just a shell protecting wx radar and associated electronics. Wouldn't take much to damage it in a ditching procedure. Great pics though. The engineering of pulling a 60,000 kg aircraft full of water out of a moving river, without further damage is pretty impressive to me.
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by MUSKEG »

Would it weigh 132,000 lbs in that condition. Soaked and all? Looks like the front baggage hatch is open, would they do that to drain water during the lift? The crane operator earned his keep that day.
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Driving Rain »

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/ ... rash_N.htm

By Gary Stoller, USA TODAY
Many US Airways (LCC) passengers who endured a crash landing in the Hudson River 12 days ago say they appreciate the $5,000 that the airline has offered — but some say it's not enough.
Joe Hart, a salesman from Charlotte who suffered a bloody nose and bruises, says he "would like to be made whole for the incident."

It's too soon after the accident to determine what emotional distress he has suffered, he says.


He's one of 150 passengers who were dramatically rescued Jan. 15, when the Charlotte-bound Airbus A320 jet safely ditched into the frigid river off Midtown Manhattan. A pilot on the plane told air-traffic controllers that birds struck the plane before both engines failed after takeoff from New York's LaGuardia Airport.

After the crash, US Airways sent passengers a letter of apology, a $5,000 check to assist "with immediate needs" and reimbursement for the ticket.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: North Carolina | New York | National Transportation Safety Board | US Airways | New York LaGuardia Airport | Hudson River | Wells | Blackberrys | Hart | Foundation | Midtown Manhattan | Peter Knudson | Bill Mosley | Kreindler
Exactly how much compensation is appropriate is a question after crashes.

The National Air Disaster Alliance & Foundation, a safety advocacy group, says $5,000 is not enough.

"We're grateful everyone survived, and the captain on the plane was so marvelous," says Gail Dunham, the group's executive director. "But passengers lost luggage, briefcases, cellphones, BlackBerrys and business documents, and went through a terrific ordeal."

Like many, Hart says he left a lot of items behind and doesn't know which ones may be lost.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates aviation accidents, wants to examine baggage and belongings, and determine how much they weighed on the plane, says spokesman Peter Knudson.

It could take "weeks or months" before they are returned to passengers, he says.

Hart and another passenger, Dave Sanderson, say they each left more than $5,000 worth of items on the plane.

Sanderson, a sales manager in Charlotte, says US Airways' letter and checks were "a nice gesture," and the airline's personnel "have treated me like gold since the incident."

US Airways Vice President Jim Olson says that an insurance claims specialist is contacting passengers and that they'll be reimbursed for expenses or losses above $5,000.

The airline wants to ensure no passenger is "losing money for the inconvenience or anything lost during the accident," he says.

Under Department of Transportation regulations, airlines are liable for up to $3,300 per passenger for checked bags that are lost or damaged on a domestic flight. Most airlines disclaim liability for carry-on bags unless a crewmember stowed the bag, says Bill Mosley, a department spokesman.

In addition to recovering losses, Hart says he's concerned about having trouble flying. He's flown on six planes since the accident, and each flight has gotten "progressively more difficult."

He says he was tense, sweated and "felt every bit of turbulence" on a Los Angeles-to-Philadelphia flight last week, though it wasn't that turbulent a flight.


Hart says he has talked to a lawyer in North Carolina but hasn't decided whether to take any legal action.

"I want to see how things play out with US Airways," he says. "I'm hopeful US Airways understands the significance of the incident."

Kreindler & Kreindler, a New York law firm that has represented plaintiffs in crashes, says it has been contacted by several passengers on the US Airways flight.

The firm's lawyers are determining what injuries and emotional distress passengers may have suffered, and what parties might be liable under New York state law, says Noah Kushlefsky, a partner in the firm.

In many aviation accidents, survivors have claimed post-traumatic stress disorder. To recover damages, plaintiffs have to prove that injury or distress was caused by negligence, or the jet or its engines not performing as they should, Kushlefsky says. New York law requires a lawsuit to be filed within three years of an incident, he says.

Sanderson, a father of four, says he's thankful he could celebrate his 48th birthday on Friday and has no reason to talk to an attorney.

"US Air has been doing the right thing," he says. "Everyone is acting in a responsible way."

Fred Berretta, who suffered a small cut on his head during the crash landing, says US Airways representatives have called frequently and treated him very well. He says that a few personal mementos from his father were left behind but that the money sent by US Airways covers the value of his belongings.

Berretta, who works for a financial services company, was flown home to Charlotte after the crash on his company's jet.

"I'm a private pilot, and I'm sure I'll be flying again," he says. "But it might be a little while before I fly for pleasure again."

Amber Wells of Charlotte says she's so thankful to have survived and to be with her 9-month-old daughter, Rayley, that she hasn't had time to think about her belongings.

She says she lost $2,000 of nursing equipment and a laptop computer, as well as a checked bag and a carry-on bag.

"Everything that's gone can be replaced," says Wells, 34, a senior manager for NASCAR. "My life cannot be replaced."
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by FamilyGuy »

Ah yes ...soon the litigation vultures will circle....


Another major difference between Canada and the good ole U S of A.

In Canada I bet many would be thankful just to walk away and be compensated for any actual loss.

In the U S of A, "I suffered emotional distress.....waaa. I've flown six times since and every time I think of that flight...waaaa$$$$$"

The lawyer vultures just circle, riding the thermal of heat that is a major incident....

If Scully or anyone else employed by the relative deep pockets of US Air is found the least bit at fault - down the Lawyer vultures swoop to lay claim to the ripe meat before them.


What do you call 1000 dead lawyers....

A good start!

BTW the nose cone damage was most likely caused by the "rescue operation". Check out the pics online. The boat captains were more than just a little aggressive in getting up close and personal with the hull.
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Re: U.S. Airways Jet Down in Hudson River

Post by Rubberbiscuit »

I am not suggesting anything one way or the other, but I am pretty sure 35% N1 is well above idle. 15% sounds about right for windmilling. That said I am not an expert on that particular engine. I am thinking the left engine was damaged, but still running with limited thrust available.

RB
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