Canjet info re: new cba

[complexintentions]

verybadman,

Fantastic post, both the original and the rebuttal to True North. We have probably flown together or perhaps had drinks at the Upper Deck. Great to hear that things are still ticking along at CanJet, I sincerely wish everyone there the very best.

As for True North...glad you had a "very successful career"...but having to tell people that, is sort of like telling people how rich you are or how well-endowed you are - it's usually just some attempt to cover up how damn unhappy you are.

It evidently pisses you off that someone can be content with a "mere" CanJet salary and working conditions. (I say that sarcastically because anyone other than a retired airline pilot who flew in the 70's would think a six-figure job with half the days in the month off was pretty decent.) What I'm not sure is why you care. If you're just fighting for the rights of pilots (very magnanimous, from your self-proclaimed successful retirement), why disparage the guys who I am absolutely certain fought as hard as they could to get the best contract they could?

The absolute best insight in verybadman's post was the fact that comparisons to other airlines are completely moot when...wait for it...you have no desire to work for other airlines.

The biggest predictor of happiness is the size of the gap between expectations and reality. It would seem that verybadman has a better grasp on that than someone living in the past or fretting about the future (y'know, the whole whinging airline-industry-hell-in-a-handbasket thing...speaking of thoroughly unoriginal).

[True North]

complexintentions,

You are one very clever fellow. You read a couple of posts from an anonymous internet forum and can do in depth character analysis, truly impressive. Although you forgot to mention that I must have been a real pleasure to fly with, isn't that part of the package? Trust me, I'm a very happy guy. Just got back from 4 days of golfing in Palm Springs so yeah, my life sucks and so does your analysis. Save the dime store psychology for the neighborhood kids, maybe you can impress them.

I'm not pissed off and I'm not fighting for anyones rights, just stating an opinion. What's truly pathetic is the number of people here that think the Canjet deal is good. It's a real indication of just how low expectations have sunk for pilots in Canada and that's sad. Every pilot at Canjet would be expected to do the same thing captain Sellenburg did for the passengers on his A320 last week - and I have no doubt they would because they are all highly trained professionals. You think what he did was worth $115,000 a year? Pathetic.

As far as verybadman being happy where he is he better enjoy it while it lasts. Remember, those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.

[Turbo]

You really need to fly off into the sunset True North (stay retired) and stop raining on others career choices and where they choose to be happy. I see very few of the retired "High Salaried Pensioned Off" pilots happy. What are you missing that you need to be so negative about something that really should not concern you. Is your pension really secure.....Milton's is....lol. In the end something can be said about anyone of the companies but what really should count is the fact that the pilots are satisfied.

Every pilot at Canjet would be expected to do the same thing captain Sellenburg did for the passengers on his A320 last week - and I have no doubt they would because they are all highly trained professionals. You think what he did was worth $115,000 a year? Pathetic

.

We professional pilots do not and could not be paid enough to do what he did....case closed. We get paid to transport our pax safely to their destinations and sometimes rarely (thank God) our skills are required to compensate for unexpected events. I can tell you that the boys were not compensated well for the events of 911 and I beg you to tell me a salary that would have.

Go have fun on the links....enjoy life. Leave the flying to us!!!

[complexintentions]

True North,

I don't think anyone - including myself - thinks the CanJet deal is good. I would contend its not quite as bad as you think but hey - no one's inviting you to work there. So again...why do you care? As you state, you're not pissed off or actually trying to DO anything about it. What would you have the folks at the companies you deem substandard, do? I have no beef with your opinion and would defend to the death your right to express it etc etc, what I don't like is your trying to blame the people still working in this industry for its present condition.

There are people who day in day out do things far more heroic than what Sellenburg did, for far less money. Sorry you feel that it's a dollar figure that inspires people to greatness. Perhaps that's why only a couple of posts are needed to form a character analysis?

I'm sure the warning about working for Rowe is much appreciated, seeing as most of the guys there would have no idea what THAT's like. I have a feeling they could teach you a thing or two about the history of aviation in the Maritimes, not the other way around.

And just to be concise, it's more philosophy than psychology at work here. Some people choose to be happy no matter how little they have, and others choose to be unhappy no matter how much they have. Which of those you are I don't know and don't care - what I do know is people content with their lot don't have the need to try and demonstrate it.

FORE!

[invertedattitude]

The fact any of you guys have seat to sit in, is something to be said.

I'd take a pretty huge paycut before I'd move anywhere near where WestJet/Air Canada pilots are mostly based/commute to.

I say the Canjet guys are living the dream, living in the best part of the country standard of living wise, and flying transport category aircraft, and working with hands down the most professional and friendly people in the industry.

If you guys are going to start talking about getting paid for responsibility for lives etc, then please join my unions bargaining unit as well, my co-workers are responsible for thousands of lives every hour and don't get paid as much as a 747 F/O who on very rare occasions makes any sort of game changing decisions.

I only bring this up to mention the fact that not all of us get paid appropriately as to what we would like. Fact is, am I unhappy? No. would I like more money? Of course I would, we all would. Thankfully the men and women at CanJet have the priviledge of flying with the best sort of people on the planet, I know this first hand. I know you Upper Canadians and Westeners would never get that, but I'd be willing to bet a very large sum of money they are pretty damn happy to be flying for CanJet and representing Atlantic Canada every time they fly.

Congratulations CanJet on surviving the recent turmoil, and having fun doing it. Please don't listen to the idiots on here who think they know your job and what it's like and tell you how much more they make. Your quality of life will always out class any of their paycheques.

[. .]

Some people get it.

When I was working on the ramp in Pickle Lake a guy from the east coast started about a week after me. He had the misfortune of getting stuck in shipping with me for an extended stay. Over our time together he never once talked about dreaming for flying for AC or WJ or flying a 747-400 or the Concorde. The only thing that he wanted was to be back home. It struck me as extremely powerful. To endure the shit we went through up there all in hopes of getting the one in a million job back home.

Years later I worked at a different company with him. He finally made it out East. It was his Air Canada, or Cathay, or WestJet. The location was more important than the job. Being in "gods country" meant more than anything else.

So with that in mind. Congrats on your new agreement guys!

[hogster330]

Hey Invertedattitude!! I take exception to your comment

"I say the Canjet guys are living the dream, living in the best part of the country standard of living wise, and flying transport category aircraft, and working with hands down the most professional and friendly people in the industry."

I am from the East, born and bred,return every year at least once to visit friends and family. Yeah it's a great place and the people are generally "salt of the earth". I also worked for Air Atlantic for 10 years. I worked with a lot of the pilots at canjet. They are a good bunch but they are no more professional and friendly than any other of the 100's of pilots that I have worked with in my 20 years of professional flying in Canada.
As far as the best standard of living, this is not true either in my opinion. There is a big difference in" Pace of Life" and "Standard of Living"

I think Canjet is a good outfit and there are a lot of diehards there,guys that will not leave the east under any circumstance, don't confuse that with living "The Dream"

[Rotten Apple #1]

This song is simply titled,

THE IDIOT

I often take these night shift walks when the foreman's not around.
I turn my back on the cooling stacks and make for open ground.
Far out beyond the tank farm fence where the gas flare makes no sound,
I forget the stink and I always think back to that Eastern town.

I remember back six years ago, this Western life I chose.
And every day, the news would say some factory's going to close.
Well, I could have stayed to take the Dole, but I'm not one of those.
I take nothing free, and that makes me an idiot, I suppose.

So I bid farewell to the Eastern town I never more will see;
But work I must so I eat this dust and breathe refinery.
Oh I miss the green and the woods and streams and I don't like cowboy clothes;
But I like being free and that makes me an idiot I suppose.

So come all you fine young fellows who've been beaten to the ground.
This western life's no paradise, but it's better than lying down.
Oh, the streets aren't clean, and there's nothing green, and the hills are dirty brown,
But the government Dole will rot your soul back there in your home town.

So bid farewell to the Eastern town you never more will see.
There's self-respect and a steady cheque in this refinery.
You will miss the green and the woods and streams and the dust will fill your nose.
But you'll be free, and just like me, an idiot, I suppose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ZiixkruCY

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

Hey while I was watching your youtube posting, I came across this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-PQbdmQ ... re=related

The guys singing with Stan and his brother Garnet, are the members of Ryan's Fancy( I'm dating myself). I don't know who the other young man at the table is.
Funny thing is just the other day, I came across a picture of Dennis Ryan, having a drink with my Dad at my Grandmother,s house, circa xmas 85.
Dermott O'Reilly is dead as well, I was fortunate enough to run into him in the lobby of the Fairmont in St. John's, a few months before he passed on.
Their contrubitions to our culture are not forgotten in this part of the country.

Now, if I could only get a certain Canjet Captain to bring his fiddle over some summer evening to play in exchange for rum.....

[FICU]

I think Canjet is a good outfit and there are a lot of diehards there,guys that will not leave the east under any circumstance, don't confuse that with living "The Dream"

And because Canjet knows they have people who have no intention of leaving the east coast they can get away with paying the pilots what they, Canjet, want rather than what they, the pilots, are worth.

[Four1oh]

If the CJ boys and girls are happy, then I'm happy for them. If, like the rest of us, it's good enough for now, and is a work in progress, so be it.

I'm just wondering where all the people screaming that CJ is lowering the bar, and whatnot? Or is that only reserved for the Teal team?

[FICU]

The bar has been dropped... not just lowered in the airline profession over the past number of years... Westjet(pay your own way while you train), JetsGo(give us money and you can fly for us), Canjet(disgustingly low wages for a Boeing Captain), Sunwing(You owe us money after we train you).

There are Boeing operators in Canada, not Air Canada, that pay full salary, hotel, and perdiems during initial training and company indoctrination and... no training bond, contract or anything. Starting wage for a Captain is $130,000 plus profit share plus annual cost of living increase plus perdiems.

Why can't that be closer to the norm in this industry and will it ever be again???

[Flightlevels]

then go to air banana and do us all a favor and shut up

[FICU]

then go to air banana and do us all a favor and shut up

I edited my post to reflect I wasn't referring to Air Canada...

Are you happy that what I stated above isn't the norm?

[FL020]

as FICU has noted,. expand your horizons, and get out of the large league of operators.....smaller boeing operators are single handedly better to work for, in my opinion.

[Rotten Apple #1]

as FICU has noted,. expand your horizons, and get out of the large league of operators.....smaller boeing operators are single handedly better to work for, in my opinion.

Curious as to which the "large league of operators" you worked for FL020?

Just so I know where you're coming from.

[Old fella]

Hey while I was watching your youtube posting, I came across this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-PQbdmQ ... re=related

The guys singing with Stan and his brother Garnet, are the members of Ryan's Fancy( I'm dating myself). I don't know who the other young man at the table is.
Funny thing is just the other day, I came across a picture of Dennis Ryan, having a drink with my Dad at my Grandmother,s house, circa xmas 85.
Dermott O'Reilly is dead as well, I was fortunate enough to run into him in the lobby of the Fairmont in St. John's, a few months before he passed on.
Their contrubitions to our culture are not forgotten in this part of the country.

Now, if I could only get a certain Canjet Captain to bring his fiddle over some summer evening to play in exchange for rum.....

Ryan's Fancy, eh. The Strand at the Avalon Mall in YYT(now I am dating myself).

Me auntie Mary had a canary “up the leg of her drawers”
While she was sleepin, I was peeping “ up the leg of her drawers”

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

Finally...someone with enough sense to leave the Canjet guys to their business and get back to serious topics like culture , drinking and music.

I imagine that there is about 60 pilots at Canjet, with 60 different reasons for working there. The most common reasons being , like the rest of us, they don't know how to do anything else except fly airplanes, and like the rest of us, they like to have a fridge full of groceries.

[marquisman]

I guess i am getting old as well oldfella because i used to freqeunt the strand quite a bit as well. Great spot.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Mcdoo, I think pilots must sound like a bunch of real tools if you were to read some of the bellyachin' about other people's jobs. Who gives a rat's arse? The 'lowering the bar' crowd obviously haven't been unemployed enough times in their life.

I'm off to clean up the empties...(BTW three months yesterday since my last cigeeboo!)

[Old fella]

Mcdoo, I think pilots must sound like a bunch of real tools if you were to read some of the bellyachin' about other people's jobs. Who gives a rat's arse? The 'lowering the bar' crowd obviously haven't been unemployed enough times in their life.

I'm off to clean up the empties...(BTW three months yesterday since my last cigeeboo!)

.

JD
Many moons ago when I wore a younger man's clothes the golden prize in aviation (flying) was a job with the original Air Canada you know with the big red tail and strip. The then popular moaning/bitching/lock wired in a permanent pissed off position crowd like you see on this particular site spouted a common theme. You either had to be the son of an Air Canada pilot or have military only background supplemented with three lunar landings as pilot in command. It was noted that qualified individuals with neither of the above background made the grade due to determination, positive attitude and hard work/ effort. But the bitchers couldn’t/wouldn’t acknowledge that….

[Rotten Apple #1]

Old Fella, check!

The Strand. I finally got the reference. Wasn't that up the stairs? I believe I may have hoisted a few myself there. I had to take the bus from our rental house on Taylor Place all the way over to the place "Where the sun don't shine and the rain never falls; don't gotta think about nothin' at all..."

[Four1oh]

The bar has been dropped... not just lowered in the airline profession over the past number of years... Westjet(pay your own way while you train), JetsGo(give us money and you can fly for us), Canjet(disgustingly low wages for a Boeing Captain), Sunwing(You owe us money after we train you).

There are Boeing operators in Canada, not Air Canada, that pay full salary, hotel, and perdiems during initial training and company indoctrination and... no training bond, contract or anything. Starting wage for a Captain is $130,000 plus profit share plus annual cost of living increase plus perdiems.

Why can't that be closer to the norm in this industry and will it ever be again???

Good one, but next time don't wait for me to prompt you.

[Old fella]

The Strand. I go back many years ago early 70's when I was at MUN, this was a popular place at the Avalon Mall, actually it was on the first level if I remember correctly in those days but it may have moved up the stairs later on. Ryan's Fancy and the Sons of Erwin were the top drawing cards and my university tuition money made a handsome contribution to those beer swilling nights. There was another place called the Bella Vista over on the east side of YYT and a pub called Bens in Churchill Park the we did frequent - I am surprised I graduated amongst all the ranting and roaring.

Nostalgia 38-39 yrs ago!!!!!

[Charley]

Just for the record, the CanJet pilot seniority list is currently at 88, with 4 more starting April 6th. That's a far cry from the 46 who were here a year ago when the CBA was ratified. Speaks for itself.